historygradhopeful

What did you take, then?

This is a good point and I agree with you. I'm just nervous because it seems that the median time to degree is EIGHT years, not just five. What happens for those other three? TAships like some other people mentioned here work, as do external grants (fullbrights, etc), but TAships pay very little compared to a full fellowship and it's very difficult to secure enough funding via external methods. What's your take on that?

Thanks for your input! I think that I'm just worried about nothing and letting the old trope about how grad students get put in a horrible economic hole get to me.

I'm looking at University of Washington in Seattle. I think I'm looking at the 4 years of funding since I've already received my MA. Thanks for your input.

Hello all! I'm looking at my potential graduate schools and must be missing something because I'm starting to psych myself out now. At many of the schools I'm looking at (Washington, Penn State, Wisconsin, UNC, Hawaii, etc) the median time-to-degree is a little over 8 years. While that time doesn't bother me, I'm worried about funding! I know that it's common to be funded completely for at least four years for a Ph.D., but what happens then? Are you left taking out student loans? I have heard external funding is what you're supposed to do, but those are quite competitive and there's no guarantee that you'd be able to get them. Am I just psyching myself out for no reason? Thanks!

I'm planning on doing so! Congrats to you!!

I thought I'd chime in on this thread now that my dust has settled and I've got a bit of a clearer head about the situation. I applied at 5 schools (UVA, Columbia, Princeton, Harvard, and Chicago) at the suggestion of my adviser and recent research that suggests that the majority of tenure track jobs currently and in the future will continue to go to Ph.Ds from top 10 and top 20 programs. I struck out at all five schools (Except for Columbia, which offered me an unpaid MA that would put me 200k in the hole) and was severely disappointed. I think it may be useful for future applicants to see my academic profile and overall strengths/weaknesses: Background: -MA in History, 3.91 GPA and graduated with "high honors" by acing my comps. -2 BAs in History and Philosophy, both with honors from a small liberal arts college -4 years teaching experience (one overseas in my research area, two as a teaching assistant, and one as an adjunct professor at the University I graduated from) -Master's Thesis using only untranslated primary source documents as the basis (obviously secondary historiography as well) -Language proficiency in Japanese and Chinese (both are my subject area) Things that seemed to be going well for me : -High GPA and GRE scores (167written, 161quant, 5.5 essay) -Language experience -Excellent thesis (My contact at one of the schools I applied at asked if he could share my thesis with his other Ph.D. students) -Teaching experience -One very good letter of recommendation Things that seemed to go against me : -I never contacted any of my potential POIs at the schools I applied at, per my adviser's suggestion -Two of my recommendations were from professors who were not in my main field, as my small University did not have a large staff of orientalists -All of my degrees came from the same, not-prestigious school -My area of research is not in the forefront of the discipline at the moment. (I study pre-modern border conflicts, whereas the trend today is towards modern/20th century) -I don't have publications in major journals So that's my situation. Reading other people's admission stories seems to suggest that having good contacts, networks, or at least dialogues open to your potential POIs matters a great deal. Additionally, and this I suspect is my biggest failing, my degrees were all from the same non-prestigious University. This hurt me in two ways : It immediately hurts my resume compared to applicants from Ivy Leagues and other schools on name alone, and I didn't have the adviser pool at my school to really get targeted recommendations. My suggestions to those starting out in the future is to focus on those things first and foremost, and make those personal connections count! Good luck!

Great advice and ideas here, as usual. I hope that everyone else has found interesting and positive things to do in light of rejection. As for me, I've decided to reject the 200k of debt that would come from getting another Master's at Columbia and do a career switch. I've been good with computers for a while and I'm going to enroll in an accelerated computer programming sequence at a local University and then apply for Master's programs in computer science the year afterward. I'll apply to many more schools (at least 15+) so that I won't have this situation happen again. The job security, salary, and lifestyle of computer programming is all attractive, but I'll be damned if I won't miss teaching History.

Thank you for the kind words. I hope you can find something fruitful in your searches as well. Your sentiments are mostly the same as my own; I love this career and what I do now, but is it worth sacrificing another 5-7 years of my life for a Ph.D. from a lower ranked University to work adjunct positions? I have a colleague at the school I work now who got her Ph.D. from the University of Florida and has published several papers and has a book deal. She is an adjunct who makes >15,000$ a year, with no benefits and security. She's been in the business for almost 7 years now. I don't want that kind of life, and it is a damn shame in my opinion.

I have to agree with your analysis that prestige matters. I read an article the other day (I KNEW I should have saved it) that was saying how more and more often the people who can land tenure track jobs are those from the top 10. Shockingly, your chances of becoming gainfully employed drop off significantly in the 11-20 range as you're 3 times less likely to get a tenure-track post at those Universities. The situation becomes even more bleak outside of the top twenty, as you're now competing for jobs with those people who came from the top 10/20 and have the connections and prestige to go with it. In my case (specialized sub-field), it doesn't make sense to go at all unless I can get in to the top 10.

I'm in the same boat as you are, ForlornHope. This is actually my second time through applications. The first time I applied out of undergrad (3.91 GPA) with honors degrees in History and Philosophy with Honor's Theses in both. I had traveled abroad and spoke some of the language of my field (3 years training). I applied to UVA, UNC, Duke, Michigan, and NYU and was rejected across the board without so much as a waitlist. After that debacle I went overseas to teach English and study my language to fluency, then came back and completed a master's program at a low-ranked liberal arts university. I still excelled in my field and graduated with a 4.00 GPA, had a portion of my Master's Thesis published, and added reading competency in another language related to my field. With all of that combined, I also presented my research at a number of respected conferences and had good networking. I scored a 165 on my GRE verbal and 5.5 on my writing. I had recommendations from professors out of Columbia and Brown. After I graduated from my MA last summer, I applied to UVA, Harvard, Columbia, Princeton, and Chicago. In the meantime, I was awarded a teaching fellowship at the University I graduated from and my teaching reviews were among the best in the department (including longer-tenured professors). I continued my research, talked with POI's at all the schools, and reported all of these achievements on my applications. I was dropped in the first round of rejections in every. single. school. I applied to. I wasn't so much as waitlisted at any of them, although Columbia had the gall to offer me an unfunded MA in East Asian Languages and Cultures that would have cost me ~200K over two years. I'm, frankly, devastated. I love teaching and it has always been something that has filled me with joy. I have always wanted to be a tenured professor and inspire students to get to new heights and, frankly, I think i'm damn good at the job. However, it seems for some reason I just can't get my foot in the door. As sad as it makes me, I'm toying with the idea of completely switching fields. I may try and go into medicine so that I can actually get a job. So that's my story. I did all the right things, I learned the languages, I excelled in my field, but apparently that wasn't enough? I'm just about ready to throw my hands up and switch out of this profession entirely towards something that can support me without killing me emotionally.

To add salt to the wound, I was just offered an unfunded MA at Columbia. With tuition and living expenses I couldn't make it out with less than 140k debt. Yipes. Not a fun time to be applying to schools I guess

I appreciate the input. I think you're right about needing a broader reach to get into a program, but I'm simply worried about job prospects. In the department where I work as an adjunct, I have two colleagues with Ph.D.s from University of Florida and University of North Carolina. They fought tooth and nail to get the job and it's only an adjunct job that pays less than 15k per year. I have been advised that if I want to get a real tenure track job it has to be from one of the top 10 Universities, realistically.

I got that same email, doesn't seem to be a rejection though? I didn't get an admissions though. Did the people who got admitted get that same email?

Congrats on getting into Rochester and NYU! It seems that you've got a more diverse mix of schools than I did and that seems to have paid off for you! I hope I'll get some good news in the coming few weeks, but we will see