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Sappho

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    Female
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    Lesbos
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  • Program
    Archaic Lyric

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  1. Yes, absolutely, UT and UC are indeed top programs in BAA! I was simply pointing out that choosing that particular sub-field means facing an extraordinarily difficult job-hunt, far harder than almost any other sub-field in Classics. If you don't understand my point about Archaeologists not considering Classical Archaeologists (that is archaeologists trained in Classics departments, so Bronze Age, Classical, Roman, etc.) "real" Archaeologists then you need to give this whole thing a re-think. Archaeologists trained in Classics departments have a very hard time getting hired in Physical Anthropology/Anthropology/Archaeology departments because many if not most of those faculty don't think the Classicist's training is appropriate to their discipline. This means that Bronze Age Archaeologists suffer from a doubly hard problem: they are considered suspect by Classicists because they aren't primarily text-based, and they are considered suspect by Archaeologists because they don't have the cutting-edge archaeology training (so the prejudice goes) that a "real" Archaeology program would provide. They slip through the cracks and suffer unemployment as a result. *That* is why anybody considering any type of Classical Archaeology really needs to talk to recent graduates or those currently ABD, who have had to deal with the job market first hand. Things have changed dramatically in the last few years, so much so that many faculty do not understand the brave new world their own students have to live in.
  2. I am sorry for being away and not replying. I would suggest all of you read the following, including the comments. It is sobering: http://www.insidehighered.com/advice/2014/03/10/essay-about-inability-find-tenure-track-job-academe http://www.slate.com/articles/life/inside_higher_ed/2014/03/quitting_the_academic_job_market_should_i_give_up_on_trying_to_be_a_professor.html Same article, but different comments. Also, read this in order to see just how little power you will have when negotiating for that tenure-track job (which of course you have very little chance of getting in the first place!): http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/03/13/lost-faculty-job-offer-raises-questions-about-negotiation-strategy http://philosophysmoker.blogspot.com/2014/03/a-new-kind-of-pfo-mid-negotiating-post.html Not Classics, but applicable. Think about this, all of you, please! -- Sappho No, there is nowhere. You must rely on individual departments, who have every incentive to gloss over uncomfortable facts about their program. I really think you need to get in touch with some recent UT and UC archaeology PhDs and have them give you a straight account of their experiences, and the experiences of the many who didn't. This is one of the most difficult areas to get a job in, period. You aren't considered a Classicist by Classicists, and you aren't considered an Archaeologist by non-Classical Archaeologists.
  3. I am a current student, just now ABD. OSU, NYU, Cornell. Ask them what their true attrition and placement rates are. I have friends who went to, are or currently at, each. It isn't pretty. If you are being honest with yourself then this is a fine attitude. But most people, after getting a taste of the apple, will not be so happy to do something unrelated to it. I think this is the the healthiest attitude, FWIW. I am just surprised more applicants and current students don't understand what the real risks are. They don't know how much the odds are stacked against them finding a full-time job. Yes, but. We tend to discount the opportunity costs far too much. This is a paying job with benefits, true. Keep in mind how much it pays varies school to school. I am lucky to have a stipend that comes close to 30K/year. Most classics programs do not offer that kind of support. Even with this stipend I am not able to save much, and many of my friends at other schools must take out student loans because their stipend is too small. Also, none of your trips are free, they are part of your job. You are working for them, even though it might not feel like it. Compare notes with those of your intellectual peers from undergrad at age 30. They will be in much better condition financially, and are on course for a well-paying, secure career (though not at all, the economy being what it is). We classicists tend to be among the best of our class wherever we went to college, so therefore the opportunity costs of not taking advantage of our academic excellence are, in fact, quite large. I like being a graduate student, and I hope I can find a tenure track job. But seeing friends in my own program who were superstars in undergrad and superstars in grad school come up with zilch on the market is sobering. Some of them are piecing together adjunct work. One has left for law school, which seems equally risky now. Others are exploring non-academic possibilities. Not a single one of them would have thought these results possible five or six years ago since our program has always been considered in the top five, and even number one by many people in the field. That is why it is so important that all of you try to get accurate information from the programs you are looking at. Unless they can show you a break-down of every result for every student who enrolled, beginning in 2000, then they are being dishonest. How many drop out at year one, two, three, four, etc. How many go on the market? How many find a tenure track job within three years of graduating? If you don't know the answers to these questions then you have failed your first research assignment. I failed mine. I'm trying to help you avoid that failure. Well, that lines up nicely with the interests of any institution. If you are after a PhD only out of interest then you will have no problem acknowledging that your PhD is the "waste product" of graduate education. How about this idea? We all read the following and then come back here and say whether these articles have made a difference in our thinking about our own graduate education, and what we think departments and professors owe us when they accept us. Perhaps I will not seem quite so crazy to some of you after you've engaged with the ideas below. http://www.theminnesotareview.org/journal/ns58/bousquet.htm http://socialtext.dukejournals.org/content/20/1_70/81.full.pdf+html http://www.theminnesotareview.org/journal/ns7172/interview_bousquet.shtml I still want to get my PhD and try my hand at the market. But I am glad that the scales have been lifted from my eyes now, rather than two or three years from now.
  4. I wonder, which programs can claim that most of their graduates get tenure track jobs? Do you take them at their word when they tell you this? How do you find out the truth in these matters? Seeing the selection of institutions to which you applied, that information right there tells me you are likely mistaken in your ability to discover data relevant to your own decision making. You have applied to three programs whose placement rates are abysmal. Criminally bad, really. Following your own logic you ought not to have applied to them. FV skews negative because the experiences of most people on the job market in Classics skew negative. With respect, I think you are woefully out of touch with your own likely future. But, onward and upward, as they say!
  5. I'm curious to know how many of you have thought seriously about what graduate school in Classics will mean for you after the fun of admissions, after the stress of comps, and after the trauma of the job market. Have you talked with your advisors, or your friends, about how bleak the market for Classicists is? Do you care? Have you checked out Famae Volent, or the Classics jobs wiki, to get some sense of what is in store for you? http://famaevolent.blogspot.com/ http://classics.wikidot.com/1-2013-2014-classics-ancient-history-archaeology-job-market If so, what did you think? If not, why not?
  6. Sappho

    Post PhD Doom?

    A friend from the Centro just told me about a Classics blog for graduate students trying to find professor jobs: http://famaevolent.blogspot.com/ I was so happy to get into grad school in classics, and now I'm already terrified about finding a job as a professor Has anybody else seen this blog????
  7. Feminist approaches to ancient history in particular!
  8. I second the Penn recommendation. This is the oldest, most established, and best post-bac program in classics. People try to talk up other programs (UCLA, UNC, Columbia) but there is no comparison. Penn really is the best one.
  9. Sappho

    Princeton, NJ

    I am looking at Princeton as well, and have a friend there now who lives in campus housing. She was able to move into the Butler Apartments (which is family housing) in the middle of June, so you should contact Grad Housing first. It is *much* cheaper to live in University Housing, and much, much more convenient, than anywhere else. Good luck!
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