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really confused - GRE writing


t_ruth

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wow weird, the same thing happened to me. I got a 710 on the verbal and a 5 on the AWA. I was expecting at least a 5.5. While a 5 is not appalling, it is something to worry about given I am applying to social sciences. I really thought I'd jump this GRE hoop successfully....and now this...grrrr!

I also wonder if ets is telling the markers to be more difficult with the assessment. The reason i say this is because I wrote the GRE last year but I retook it recently because I totally bombed the math last year. The point being, last year I got 5.5 on the AWA and i didn't even have time to finish! This year, I made sure time management was not a problem by practicing. I just don't get it. I know my writing was better this time around.

Anyway, what can you do? A re-score is out of question at this point. I just hope it wont be a huge deal.

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Hey there. I'm a professional GRE tutor as well as editor. Like the original poster, I too graduated from a top law program, so I understand the difference between legal writing and the writing that is required on the GRE.

The essays are graded by computer (so don't deconstruct the essay format, please) and test your ability to do several things:

CONTENT

ORGANIZATION

DEVELOPMENT

WRITING STYLE/CLARITY

The most important thing is the content (do you have good points to talk about?), development (do you back up your ideas with reasons, evidence?) and clarity (can you communicate your points?).

I'm actually an excellent scorer and reviewer of essays. My predictions are pretty accurate. If you want me to do a quick review, I am happy to do it for free. Just contact me first and I'll give you may email address, or to to www.testheads.vpweb.com and you can contact me that way.

Theresa Gheen

Managing Member

Test Heads Educational Coaching, LLC

www.testheads.vpweb.com

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  • 2 weeks later...

*sigh* tell me about it. I did pretty well on my GREs (730 verbal [99th percentile], 760 quants [86th]). Just got my AWA scores today and got a 4.5 [58th] after being quite certain I would score at least a 5.0. =\

Admittedly, i took the writing section quite lightly and only wrote a few practice essays, but it was still quite a shock. Am currently re-gathering the will to keep researching the top cog psych programs on my list (am only applying next year).

Ran a google search and this page came up, twas nice to know that i'm not completely alone in this. :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm also a lawyer and got a 5 on the writing section. (71%ile).

Worse yet, the question was legal in nature!

I'm sure if you don't get a 1 or a 2, it's all good.

Your accomplishments, personal statement, etc. carry so much more weight.

The standardized tests are just a WTF!? cut-off.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm glad that I found this thread. I got a 750 (99%) Verbal and a 740 (81%) Quantitative and...a 4.0 (37%) AW!!! Someone mentioned that Kaplan sucks--well, I took a Kaplan prep course that was extremely helpful with Verbal/Quantitative stuff, but the instructor (who was great) spent absolutely NO TIME at all preparing us for the AW essays. He was just like, "Come on, guys, it's SO easy!" and then we outlined like two sample essays together as a class...and that was it. So from the start I was under the impression that the AW part of the GRE was no big deal. Now, I'm an English major (seriously), so I admit that I may have been a little over-confident about it, too--I obviously should have done a few more practice essays on my own--but in any case, I blew it big time. Like others, I was seriously disappointed but didn't want to re-take the exam since I did so well on the other sections.

I've already sent out my applications to mostly top PhD programs in English, and I'm hoping that my SOP and WS (not to mention the awards/honors I've earned for my writing--from um, professors, not ETS morons) will persuade the admissions committees that I'm a *good* writer. The other parts of my application--GPA, LoRs, etc.--are also strong. Judging from the guidelines on many English department websites, it seems like they pay the most attention to Verbal and Subject test scores...

...let's hope :(

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I wouldn't worry so much about the GRE writing grade if your verbal score is high. One of my friends got into 4 Ph.D. programs in American Studies (she got in everywhere she applied, with funding), with a 4 on the writing. She was shocked at her score, like the OP was, and otherwise had a high score on the verbal. It didn't affect her application.

I got a 5.5 and was surprised that I didn't get a 6, personally, since I like the OP have a JD and already was writing for a living when I took the GRE. I know that isn't really helpful since my 5.5 was a very good score, but I really don't know what they are looking for in a 6 if not what I wrote. If the OP is still following this thread, my technique on the writing was straight outta law school. I IRAC'ed (Issue, Rule, Analysis, Conclusion) and it worked for me. I also tried to throw some metaphors/similes/big words in there, in the intro sentences. But I truly believe the GRE is a crapshoot on the writing, because IN grad school, I have gotten the highest grades in the class in my two classes where we had paper requirements. So your JD experience will help, once you are in. I find I have a much better comprehension of what a "paper" should look like than some of my cohorts who don't have that background.

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well, it's graded by computer, so things like that matter...and topic, supporting, conclusion sentence-structured paragraphs as well. Of course, these are things I only really learned AFTER taking the darn test. In any case, after looking into it further I really don't think it is that much like law school exam writing. In law school, the key is identifying all the forks in the facts and the law, and "issue-spotting" as many things as possible, without really delving too deeply into any of them. The sample essays I've read for the GRE writing that scored near a 6 seem unnecessarily detailed with sentences to explain concepts that are a bit "duh." ;)

Even though most people joke that lawyers are unnecessarily verbose, law school (at least in recent years) trains us instead to be as clear and concise as possible, so those same 6 essays would not do very well on a real law school exam.

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The notion that the essays on the GRE are graded by computer is ridiculous. Here is what ETS has to say about it:

"Computer-Based General Test:

Your scores on the Verbal and Quantitative sections of the computer-based General Test depend on your performance on the questions given and on the number of questions answered in the time allotted.

Because both of these sections are computer-adaptive, the questions presented are selected to reflect your performance on preceding questions and the requirements of the test design. Test design factors that influence which questions are presented to you include

1. the statistical characteristics (including difficulty level) of the questions already answered

2. the required variety of question types

3. the appropriate coverage of content

For the computer-based Analytical Writing section, each essay receives a score from at least one trained reader, using a six-point holistic scale. In holistic scoring, readers are trained to assign scores on the basis of the overall quality of an essay in response to the assigned task. The essay score is then reviewed by e-rater, a computerized program developed by ETS, which is being used to monitor the human reader. If the e-rater evaluation and the human score agree, the human score is used as the final score. If they disagree by a certain amount, a second human score is obtained, and the final score is the average of the two human scores.

The final scores on the two essays are then averaged and rounded up to the nearest half-point interval. A single score is reported for the Analytical Writing section.

The primary emphasis in scoring the Analytical Writing section is on your critical thinking and analytical writing skills rather than on grammar and mechanics. (Read the Issue and Argument scoring guides.)

During the scoring process, your essay responses on the Analytical Writing section will be reviewed by ETS essay-similarity-detection software and by experienced essay readers. See Independent Intellectual Activity."

Source: http://www.ets.org/portal/site/ets/menu ... _Reporting

They are scored usually by 2 independent scorers. The scorers are most often professors, usually of writing or literature or something along that line. The scorers give a 1-6 rank of your essay, and then the two scores are averaged, which is how people are able to earn .5 scores such as 5.5, etc.

As someone currently in an Ed Psych doctoral program, I can assure you that the AW scores are not all that important in admissions decisions. The faculty are more concerned with your research interests, fit, and future goals. Ed Psych people in particular understand the problems with making admissions decisions based solely on one test score. If you have a law degree, then the ad com can see you are capable of writing. The questions then become more focused on your research interests, and how well you fit in with the department and the faculty who are accepting students.

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Also wanted to add my experience... 710 V, 800 Q and 5.0 in AWA. I was very surprised at my AWA score as I thought that I had done a good job. In preparation, I dusted up my quants fundamentals, took about 7-8 practice tests each in Verbal and Quants and the powerprep computer based tests from ETS (in my defense, I decided to apply for Fall 2009 only around Nov 15). Since I was reasonably confident about my writing (while I make the occasional grammatical errors, I write well), I did not practice for AWA and spent the little time I had on the other two sections. I did not know that one of the scores for the AWA would be generated by a computer system! I disagree with ETS's choice in using a computer based system to rate the essay to cut costs and I think that it decreases the validity and reliability of the AWA scores (lower reliability as the human raters may simply adjust to the parameters used by the computer based rating system; formulaic writing is probably the best bet to get 6.0 - not very surprising for a standardized test, I guess!)

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I just got my scores: 700 Verbal, 780 Quant, 5.0 Writing.

Me too!

I think it's worth keeping in mind that getting an above-average score is still pretty good. It's not like the SATs where everyone takes them, the test-takers are much more self-selecting. Also, I've heard that on the SAT writing component, scores are extremely predictable based on the length of your essay - maybe quantity is more important than quality on the GRE as well. And formulaic writing seems to be important for the test, while college writing classes teach you how to write WITHOUT plugging your arguments into a specific formula. So all in all, I'd be surprised if this were a major factor in admissions.

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Me too!

I think it's worth keeping in mind that getting an above-average score is still pretty good. It's not like the SATs where everyone takes them, the test-takers are much more self-selecting. Also, I've heard that on the SAT writing component, scores are extremely predictable based on the length of your essay - maybe quantity is more important than quality on the GRE as well. And formulaic writing seems to be important for the test, while college writing classes teach you how to write WITHOUT plugging your arguments into a specific formula. So all in all, I'd be surprised if this were a major factor in admissions.

Some writing programs are trending back toward formulae/exempla. Gerald Graff (a well-known English dork) has a recent book geared toward freshman comp. students that is basically a bunch of paradigms and instructions for their use. It just goes to show you that the history of writing instruction, much like other topics, is circular.

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To add support to a previous poster's suggestion: I wrote two really long essays, so long that I was worried I would be penalized, and I ended up with a 6.0. I also noticed that score and length were somewhat correlated in the ETS book of real exams/responses etc. So if I were giving somebody advice on taking that part of the test, I'd say that in addition to including lots of blatant signposting (the formulaic organization that everybody else is talking about), you should write essays as long as you possibly can.

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To add support to a previous poster's suggestion: I wrote two really long essays, so long that I was worried I would be penalized, and I ended up with a 6.0. I also noticed that score and length were somewhat correlated in the ETS book of real exams/responses etc. So if I were giving somebody advice on taking that part of the test, I'd say that in addition to including lots of blatant signposting (the formulaic organization that everybody else is talking about), you should write essays as long as you possibly can.

It's really a shame that they can't find smarter grad students to grade these essays. I, for one, am skeptical about the idea that a five-paragraph essay needs much metacommentary beyond a slight nod toward the "here's what I'm going to do, here's what I'm doing, and here's what I've just done" approach I teach my comp. students to consider using in their real essays (of at least 5 pages).

How lost can a reader get in a well-written 5-paragraph essay?

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The one constant in the grading is the computer. I'm guessing that the human graders are trained to grade like the computer, and as a whole, the graders are rewarded for being as consistent with the computer as possible (by avoiding having a second human grader have to come in and reread if there is too large a human/computer discrepancy).

With as little time as they get, I doubt they would care much about anything other than fitting us in nice little score boxes and matching up with their computer colleague.

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Another thing to remember is that usually grading like this is done in enormous blocks: say, an essay every 2-3 minutes for eight hours a day, straight. (I don't know if it's true for the GRE, but I do know that it's true for a lot of other standardized tests). Reading literally hundreds of essays a day is so mind-numbing that even the most astute reader might be reduced to a pretty formulaic approach after a while. The signposting probably helps the bored and exhausted reader as much as the basically unsophisticated one.

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I had the opposite problem, low test scores (590Q 600V) and high AW (5.5... though I thought I would get a 6...). I thought about taking the test again a couple times (that was in fall 07), but it was just too expensive and the computer format didn't really match well with my test-taking style (I have to skip around). I did really well on the ACT back in the day and have taken and gotten As in tons of math classes, so I know I'm capable of a better score.

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That's really funny -- I actually think I spaced between paragraphs and didn't indent. Maybe that's why no 6? If so, that is totally and completely retarded.

I also spaced b/t paragraphs and didn't indent. I figured this was acceptable because the word processor they give you for your response is so terrible, and they don't allow you to use the TAB key. While I don't attribute my score to this fact, you all have made me pissed at myself in retrospect for not putting a few spaces before my paragraphs.

C'est la vie.

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Yet another story:

First a little background. I applied for Master's work in Music Performance (conducting) in 2003. At that time, my background was entirely in music performance (I had written small papers for history and theory classes, though I had not made any effort to study writing). I took the test cold and scored a 6.0 on the AW section.

During my Master's, I took an interest in musicology (music history and criticism, which is a writing-intensive field). I took advantage of as many opportunities for writing, including a thesis-level document I voluntarily wrote under the direction of the head of the musicology department. (The project, incidentally, is in the process of being published as a book by a major German publishing company.) Since graduating in 2006, I have been teaching music in a public school while my wife has been doing her master's. During that time, I have written a paper that was presented at a regional conference; the paper was later published by a peer-reviewed academic journal.

Now it's time for me to apply for PhD work in musicology, and the first time out, I scored a 3.5 on my AW (95th percentile in verbal)! I requested a re-score and my appeal was rejected. I retook the test and scored a 4.0 (97th percentile in verbal that time). By the by, I have studied the official GRE prep book and worked with the software as well (I could not afford the Princeton Review or Kaplan classes since I am applying to 9 different schools, which has cost over $1000 so far). I didn't address the writing score in my statements of purpose, hoping that my mention of multiple professional publications will assuage their concerns over my test scores.

I was incredibly angry when I first received the scores, but since sending off all of my applications I have felt very little concern for the situation. It's probably ruined my chances with the two Ivys I applied to, but if a school really doesn't care to look beyond arbitrary numbers, they probably wouldn't be the best school to deal with anyhow (what is this, stage 6: rationalization? I'll let you know when I reach the final stage ;)

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I noticed someone said something about indenting at the start of a paragraph. I double spaced between my paragraphs (the same way I am in this message). Could this have created a problem?

I haven't gotten my score back, but if this rumor is true, the GRE is flat out retarded. Spacing between paragraphs is completely acceptable and preferable in my opinion.

Was there an instruction at the beginning which stated that you MUST indent? To be honest, I didn't even read the instructions.

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I'm pretty sure they let you space it however they want. If you got a low score, it might be because of arbitrary grading, etc. But I'm pretty sure it wasn't because of spacing.

I can't find the actual thread now, but it was a site like this one where someone who had formerly taught a prep class mentioned that as one of the criteria. Of course, he's just some dude on the web, but from what I've read of everyone's experiences here, I wouldn't be too surprised...

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