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Your LORS: Do you read them?


Tonights

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Ethics be damned...You don't want to read those because you don't want a festering resentment to cloud the otherwise positive relationship you ahve with your PI or professors or whomever.

Okay, this has been bothering me for a long time...what's PI stand for?

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Okay, this has been bothering me for a long time...what's PI stand for?

Principal Investigator. You will usually find this term in the sciences. They are the people in charge of research projects and studies.

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Plisar:

Can schools also see the number of times each day you log into your account to check the status? I know this would not matter as much as, say, reading LORs without permission. Still, my programs might think I am crazy if they can see how often I check the status.

Linden

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Plisar:

Can schools also see the number of times each day you log into your account to check the status? I know this would not matter as much as, say, reading LORs without permission. Still, my programs might think I am crazy if they can see how often I check the status.

Linden

Or it would show your interest in the program :)

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You guys give them way too much credit. Not only do they not care how many times you log in, they do not bother keeping track of something so ridiculous. They have lives, people! They are employed as faculty in a university! Does anyone know how much work this entails???

This admissions business is such a tiny piece of their responsibilities...

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Ha, ha, bubotuberpus. You're either really nice, supportive, and understanding, or you're also checking status several times a day. :D

lol I think I'll self-identify as hopelessly neurotic. I agree with IvyHope though - we all need to take a deep breath. In fact, I just spent a few minutes on YouTube looking for intro to meditation videos that I could post on the Waiting board. Then I realized that would be contributing to the problem. Oh dear. :lol:

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I waived my right. I don't think that either of my professors would have cared if I hadn't but honestly you should have a pretty good idea of what they were going to say. I personally picked professors that I had worked with for quite sometime, and taken at least 2 classes with (one I had taken 4)... I had gotten A's in all of the classes, always turned my work in on time, was polite/never harassed them for anything, etc. Heck, for one I even came back to school early from surgery to take the final so that she and I wouldn't have to put it off into the next quarter.

I guess what I am trying to say is - I know what sort of student I was for them, and I know there's nothing bad they could say about me or my work, and I also know they're the sort of people that would be thrilled to get their student into a graduate program and would do what they could to help. I wouldn't choose someone that I know I'd bothered, or felt that they might not be interested in writing the letter...so I really wasn't that tempted to read it. After all, a professor would have to really dislike/have a need for vindication if he/she was to agree to writing your letters of recommendation only to say less than nice things about you- and I'm guessing you would have the sensibility to recognize that ahead of time.

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I personally picked professors that I had worked with for quite sometime, and taken at least 2 classes with (one I had taken 4)... I had gotten A's in all of the classes, always turned my work in on time, was polite/never harassed them for anything, etc.

So did I, but if that's all it really takes to guarantee a shining LOR, I might be as confident as you. I thought there was much more for them to consider? That's the impression I get from the cover forms for some of my schools, anyway - wanting them to rate me for things like "breadth of general knowledge" and "emotional maturity." (Not that my ratings for those things would be bad...)

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Some of mine were open ended, and some wanted them to fill out a check list. You're right that it doesn't guarantee an effort on their part, but I think you'll have a pretty good idea of what they'll say - if they like you/think you were a good student I don't think they're going to mark you down.

For example on the emotional maturity one - if they know that you always came to class on time, turned things in on time (and if you didn't you took responsibility for it and weren't coming up with excuses) and that you didn't harass them, and fight with them point for point on assignments/tests, and you could formulate opinions with solid reasons/examples if you did happen to disagree with them instead of throwing a tantrum (as i have seen some college students do) then you know there's a pretty good chance they're going to mark you high there.

I'm not saying you're going to know exactly what they are putting on there, but you're going to have a pretty solid understanding of the nature of their comments/ratings.

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I couldn't, I'd be too nervous. Every time I had the option of seeing them, I said nooo. I have some extras sitting around too, they need to go in the trash but I'm keeping them on the off chance I want to apply somewhere with a late deadline later on (most likely will not happen...they need to go in the trash bahaha).

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Some of mine were open ended, and some wanted them to fill out a check list. You're right that it doesn't guarantee an effort on their part, but I think you'll have a pretty good idea of what they'll say - if they like you/think you were a good student I don't think they're going to mark you down.

For example on the emotional maturity one - if they know that you always came to class on time, turned things in on time (and if you didn't you took responsibility for it and weren't coming up with excuses) and that you didn't harass them, and fight with them point for point on assignments/tests, and you could formulate opinions with solid reasons/examples if you did happen to disagree with them instead of throwing a tantrum (as i have seen some college students do) then you know there's a pretty good chance they're going to mark you high there.

I'm not saying you're going to know exactly what they are putting on there, but you're going to have a pretty solid understanding of the nature of their comments/ratings.

That's not even close to what it takes. I have plenty of students who come to class on time and don't throw temper tantrums, even many who have earned A's in my class. That does not mean I think they could handle doctoral-level work, or in particular, research. Those are the kinds of questions admissions committees are interested in.

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I think reading your extra letter because you're convinced they wrote something bad about you is kind of like checking your girlfriends cell phone/e-mail because you're convinced she's cheating on you.

On the other hand, my friend recently discovered through his girlfriend's e-mail that she is cheating on him, so...

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That's not even close to what it takes. I have plenty of students who come to class on time and don't throw temper tantrums, even many who have earned A's in my class. That does not mean I think they could handle doctoral-level work, or in particular, research. Those are the kinds of questions admissions committees are interested in.

I said in my second sentence that it doesn't guarantee anything, and I also said "pretty good chance." I never once said "these are the exact and only parameters your professors are going to be considering" so I am not exactly sure why you are saying "That's not even close to what it takes" I was giving one small/partial example so its a given that that is not all it takes. All I am saying is that IN GENERAL you know what sort of work you did and what sort of person you were in those classes/around that professor, and what sort of image you have produced in their minds. So you should already know which direction they are leaning in. Could there be surprises? Might they mark you down somewhere you wouldn't expect? Of course, anything is possible... but the chance that something completely shocking is going to be in that letter is a lot slimmer than most of us imagine.

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What IvyHope said is that just because you did what you think is "good work" for a class and made a good impression with your punctual behavior doesn't mean you have any aptitude for doctoral work. It sounds like you're talking about getting a good recommendation for good behavior, really, and she's trying to tell you that that's not what professors are being asked to evaluate. And now you're protesting and quibbling in the same manner you claimed (above) would endanger a good rec. I wish some of you would stop protesting so much and listen to people like IvyHope who know what the score is. She's trying to help you out (not that many people listened to her on the PoliSci top 25 thread a while back)....

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What IvyHope said is that just because you did what you think is "good work" for a class and made a good impression with your punctual behavior doesn't mean you have any aptitude for doctoral work. It sounds like you're talking about getting a good recommendation for good behavior, really, and he's trying to tell you that that's not what professors are being asked to evaluate. And now you're protesting and quibbling in the same manner you claimed (above) would endanger a good rec. I wish some of you would stop protesting so much and listen to people like IvyHope who know what the score is. He's trying to help you out (not that many people listened to him on the PoliSci top 25 thread a while back)....

(she) :o

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I had the opportunity to read my adviser's letter last year when I applied to Masters programs. I mulled it over, and finally gave it back to him, still sealed. I trusted him and knew he had spent a lot of time reviewing my file, re-reading papers, and speaking with me about my plans -- I figured after that he would have declined to write a letter if he wasn't somewhat convinced of my potential. Turns out, I'm applying for PhD programs this year, and he offered to again write me a recommendation. I would have felt very weird if I had not only read last year's letter, but essentially knew what he would be writing this year in advance. Maybe you'll never use these profs again for recommendations, but who knows when they might pop back into your academic life down the road? Even if you never waived your right, it's still hinky.

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Sorry. "She" (edited above to correct). But I stand by your advice on this and other threads. 8) What's that Shakespeare line, though, about "troubl[ing] deaf heaven with [your] bootless cries..."? Yeah, I'm reminded of that.

That's totally ok. No need to edit- I was just giving you a hard time. And thank you for standing by. :-)

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I'd relinquish my right but accept the privilege of reading an LOR. However, if I had extra letters floating around, I think the most ethical thing would be to return them.

Exactly!

I did have one professor ask me to read his LOR last year, acknowledging that it wasn't a traditional practice, but that was because he wanted to talk specifically about my research interests and future plans in the letter and was making sure he had it exactly right. So I'm glad I read it - it had enough praise in it to keep me motivated.

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If a professor gives you permission to read what (s)he wrote, it's fine, of course. But surreptitiously reading a recommendation that was written about you in confidence is horribly unethical, and it's unethical in exactly the kind of way that is anathema to honest academic work. If we're to expect our students and peers to be academically honest when it comes to questions like avoiding plagiarism and cheating during testing, how can we seriously consider breaking into our own private files? Of course it would be easy for anyone to obtain extra copies of your recommendations (e.g. by telling a prof that you need a copy sent to you to include in a folder for a school you're not actually applying to). But I would hope that most adults (especially those who want to spend their lives in academia) are better than that.

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See, I have permission to read them if I'd like to. I wasn't really asking an ethical question - I should have been clearer. I was just asking if you would want to know what's been written about you, ethics totally aside. :wink:

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