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NDSEG and NSF in Mathematics


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7 replies to this topic

#1 dasgut

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 12:48 AM

Hey Guys,
I'd appreciate any advice you can give on this issue. I'm applying for the NDSEG and I previously participated twice in an ASEE internship program. I was wondering the following:

1. How much of a help will my internships be? Moreover, if you've seen my profile, what are my chances? I actually mentioned my internships a few times in my NDSEG statement and how it helped me form the research question discussed in the statement.

2. Can students accept BOTH an NSF and an NDSEG? If they can't which do most accept?

Thanks for your help!
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#2 dasgut

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 07:33 PM

Anyone?
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#3 toypajme

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 02:12 AM

Can't accept both.
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#4 agarcia59

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 07:18 PM

Actually from what I've read, one can accept the NDSEG, defer the NSF for 2 years, and give up the first year of NSF funding. So it would be

1:NDSEG
2:NDSEG
3:NDSEG
4:NSF GRFP
5:NSF GRFP.

Not 100% sure on this, but I'm pretty sure.
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#5 kdilks

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:08 AM

You used to be able to accept both fellowships and use them in different years, but now you have to choose one or the other.

http://www.nsf.gov/p...61/nsf12061.pdf

FELLOWSHIP DETAILS AND CONDITIONS
Starting with the 2011 Fellows forward, GRFP Fellowships cannot be concurrently accepted or
combined with another Federal Fellowship, irrespective of the Fellow’s Status. Federal
Fellowships are defined as awards that are made to individuals from the US Government (e.g.,
Department of Defense, Department of Energy, Environmental Protection Agency, National
Institutes of Health, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, Department of
Agriculture, National Aeronautics and Space Administration, etc.).


They've only changed this rule within the past year, so there's no real precedent about which one is "better" to accept if you get both. After doing a quick comparison of the two, I would go with NSF, if given the choice. GRFP has more flexibility on when you can use it. You have to use NDSEG in one continuous 36 month block (you can take time off for internships, but you don't get paid by the fellowship then). For GRFP, you choose three 12 month blocks, and you can choose whether those 12 months start in April or September to make things line up nicely with summers that you do/don't have other funding sources available. Also, if you plan on continuing in academics, you're a lot more likely to be dealing with the NSF in the future, so it's good to have experience with them, what they look for in reports and proposals, etc. I believe NDSEG does pay slightly more, and might have more provisions than NSF for covering health care expenses, so that's also something to consider. It looks like both programs allow you to take on some teaching while under fellowship (usually a .25 assignment, or half of a regular TA), which is important if you have a second fellowship from your university.

Edited by kdilks, 04 April 2012 - 10:09 AM.

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#6 quinquenion

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 03:27 AM

There exist departments (notably, MIT) that don't completely accept the cost-of-education allowance given by NSF. That is, they do accept it, but then expect fellows to do a partial TA-ship to cover the balance. If I'm not mistaken, the NDSEG, on the other hand, actually pays full tuition. If you go to a department that has such a policy, then NDSEG probably makes more sense.

Source: http://math.mit.edu/...cial/index.html
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#7 kdilks

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 09:36 AM

There exist departments (notably, MIT) that don't completely accept the cost-of-education allowance given by NSF. That is, they do accept it, but then expect fellows to do a partial TA-ship to cover the balance. If I'm not mistaken, the NDSEG, on the other hand, actually pays full tuition. If you go to a department that has such a policy, then NDSEG probably makes more sense.

Source: http://math.mit.edu/...cial/index.html


I'm pretty sure what they're doing is against the terms of the NSF GRFP. The guide states "While on Tenure, Fellows are exempt from paying required tuition and fees normally charged to
graduate students of similar academic standing", and I remember my department having to sign something saying that they would cover any tuition expenses beyond what was covered by the COE allowance.
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#8 quinquenion

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 02:37 PM

My guess is that MIT has a special arrangement, since they've had several high profile differences with NSF and Hertz in the past couple of decades. There was even apparently a time when MIT limited the number of NSF fellows that were allowed to matriculate because too many NSF fellows wanted to go to MIT, and MIT had to cover the difference between tuition and the cost-of-education allowance. That is to say, fellows were sometimes required to give up their fellowships or not matriculate at MIT.

Source: http://tech.mit.edu/...24/nsf.24n.html , http://web.mit.edu/a...s00/075.00.html

Edited by quinquenion, 05 April 2012 - 02:38 PM.

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