16 replies to this topic

[crazygirl2012]

I'm a graduating senior starting a Ph.D. program in the fall. I come from a small college and a pretty ambitious department. A lot of us applied to grad school. This entire semester, I've seen a lot of drama related to grad school admissions. Lots of anxiety, bitterness, mixed feelings about each other's success, and just plain cattiness and backstabbing. It's disappointing. I'm pretty satisfied with how I've handled it, mostly because I've been the major target for criticism. I'm not going to whine on here about the nasty things people say, but I am curious to know if others have encountered this problem at the end of undergrad.

For what it's worth, my true friends have been great! We've had our issues, and we've all said things we now regret, but we've worked through it and are genuinely happy for one another.

[Pauli]

Nope, never had that problem at all. Did my undergrad at a large state university (approximately, fifty thousand students). Social connections came from diverse range of people at my school who shared similar experiences with me (e.g. similar interests, same major, shared classes, or lived in my dorm). I benefited from finding decent-sized groups that I could strongly associate and not have that kind of drama, especially in regards to things like applying to grad school.

Seems like the situation you're experiencing is common from people who went to smaller schools, judging from my high school classmates who also went to similarly-sized universities.

[crazygirl2012]

Nope, never had that problem at all. Did my undergrad at a large state university (approximately, fifty thousand students). Social connections came from diverse range of people at my school who shared similar experiences with me (e.g. similar interests, same major, shared classes, or lived in my dorm). I benefited from finding decent-sized groups that I could strongly associate and not have that kind of drama, especially in regards to things like applying to grad school.

Seems like the situation you're experiencing is common from people who went to smaller schools, judging from my high school classmates who also went to similarly-sized universities.

Probably true. The whole university has the kind of stereotypical high school environment that I never experienced at my enormous high school. I made friends easily my entire life until I got here and realized I had no experience with relational aggression. I'm happy for you that you were able to avoid the drama! I hate the social scene here, but I stuck around for the amazing professors. Many of us do.

[Pauli]

I hate the social scene here, but I stuck around for the amazing professors. Many of us do.

Yes, I'm always impressed at how students at smaller schools connect with their profs! That's rare for the bigger state schools for undergrads.

[crazygirl2012]

Yes, I'm always impressed at how students at smaller schools connect with their profs! That's rare for the bigger state schools for undergrads.

Thanks! For all the flaws we have a student body, I do give us credit for our appreciation of our professors and of our education in general. We reach a nice level of familiarity with them without sacrificing respect. They're wonderful mentors who know how to work with our perfectionism by pushing us to our limits while somehow maintaining support.

[TakeruK]

Sorry to hear about that! I came from a big undergrad institution, but a pretty small department. We were all really supportive of each other, from what I saw anyways. Even though some of us were applying to the exact same programs and fellowships, we worked on our applications together and gave constructive criticisms on our essays and CVs etc. We checked over each other's forms to make sure everything was complete. We all supported each other and shared in everyone's successes and failures.

This time around, I was the only person in the masters program applying to PhD places so I can't compare. Maybe my undergrad cohort was a special case (aka just super awesome )

[crazygirl2012]

Haha, I think my school as a whole is just unusually catty. I am glad that it's not the norm!

[starmaker]

Yeah, I never saw this problem when I was in undergrad (elite private R1 with about 4000 undergrads).

As an MS student, I'm part-time anyway, and my classmates aren't part of my social life, so I have no idea if they applied to PhD programs and how they're treating each other. I'm probably happier that way.

[psychgurl]

I also didn't have this experience at undergrad. At my job, though, a few of us applied to grad school this year. While the climate isn't "catty" by any means, it's a delicate situation because one person out of 5 of us didn't get in anywhere. I honestly just avoid talking about grad school with that person to avoid any awkwardness or hurt feelings. As for the other coworkers who got into programs, they have made me feel uncomfortable when asking about my stipend/financial package in detail and just turning normal conversations into braggy/snotty "well my program does this" kinda stuff. This is probably easier in a work environment, but I just ignore anyone who makes me feel uncomfortable. And this may not be the best advice, but if people in my UG were being catty to me, I would call them out on it: "You know, it's totally obvious that the only reason you're being catty to me is because you're insecure." What has been your approach with dealing with them so far?

[SPanda]

I would say that things haven't been "catty" around here but...

We have a pretty mixed group of grads and UGs in our dept and we all hang out together socially. One of my friends got into the MA program from being an UG here, and one of our other friends applied to the MA the following season. Both got in, but the first season applicant got a TAship and a tuition waiver, while the other who applied the following season did not get anything. There was a difference of a year in applications and the budget took a dip. What makes it feel unfair is that the 2nd student is really a "better" student than the first. The difference in packages has taken a toll on the friendship and things have changed socially for the worse.

Sigh... it happens. But overall, I think ours was an isolated incident. Everyone has been really supportive of those of us who got into PhDs or MAs elsewhere.

[crazygirl2012]

I also didn't have this experience at undergrad. At my job, though, a few of us applied to grad school this year. While the climate isn't "catty" by any means, it's a delicate situation because one person out of 5 of us didn't get in anywhere. I honestly just avoid talking about grad school with that person to avoid any awkwardness or hurt feelings. As for the other coworkers who got into programs, they have made me feel uncomfortable when asking about my stipend/financial package in detail and just turning normal conversations into braggy/snotty "well my program does this" kinda stuff. This is probably easier in a work environment, but I just ignore anyone who makes me feel uncomfortable. And this may not be the best advice, but if people in my UG were being catty to me, I would call them out on it: "You know, it's totally obvious that the only reason you're being catty to me is because you're insecure." What has been your approach with dealing with them so far?

One of my best friends applied to a more competitive subfield than I did. She did great as far as interviews and wait lists go, but despite being a weaker student, I got into grad school and she didn't. When my other best friend (same subfield as mine, amazing student) and I were getting interviews, the one who didn't finally told us that it was incredibly awkward when we tried to avoid the topic. She was happy for us, she wanted to hear about this important time in our lives, and she would let us know if she changed her mind and didn't want to hear about it anymore. That worked great-- we remained honest with each other throughout the process and it turned out totally fine.

There was one girl who applied to yet another subfield and didn't get any interviews or acceptances. We don't know why. She's a great student. But she and I had a very tentative friendship after years of issues (long story!), and it did fall apart after a relatively trivial argument we had a couple weeks ago. Without the added tension from the grad school issues, I think we would have been fine.

In general, my response has been to ignore it. Nearly everything has been said behind my back anyway. That's generally how things work around here! I tried to be very conscious of everything I said. I'm quite insecure and I still worried constantly about being viewed as arrogant. From what I've been told, people didn't think I was, so I guess I succeeded in that regard.

[bfat]

I literally do not know a single person in real life who has applied or will be applying to phd programs. In a way, it's good, because I know I get hypercompetetive in situations like that (I remember the scramble for the ivies in high school), but at the same time it would be nice to be able to talk to someone (besides professors) about the process.

[emmm]

It's probably inevitable that in a small group where people are applying to the same/similar competitive programs things will get tense. Especially when you consider how stressful grad applications are in general. I guess all you can do is hope that things will work out without friendships being destroyed. If the friendship can't weather this, perhaps it was not such a great relationship to start with. I'm also lucky in that I have never experienced this, but I have generally done things "off-schedule" and been pretty isolated in applications.

[crazygirl2012]

It's probably inevitable that in a small group where people are applying to the same/similar competitive programs things will get tense. Especially when you consider how stressful grad applications are in general. I guess all you can do is hope that things will work out without friendships being destroyed. If the friendship can't weather this, perhaps it was not such a great relationship to start with. I'm also lucky in that I have never experienced this, but I have generally done things "off-schedule" and been pretty isolated in applications.

Agreed-- my true friendships have been fine, and have grown stronger from us going through this together. I was anything but isolated during the process. For me, that mostly worked out for the best.

[GreenePony]

For as small as my major and minor departments are- I only really talk to one person and we applied only had one school in common and from what I can tell in my major, there wasn't a lot of competition for the programs (not a lot are going into straight cultural anthro, some are going into forensics, arch, different subfields, peace corps, med school, etc).

I am starting to feel awkward now that we are less than 2 weeks to graduation and what we're doing next is the main topic to come up. People in my minor keep commenting on how impressive it is that I got in- while they are going to an in-state program that are "good enough". It's not like I could do anything about where they go but it just makes me feel kind of guilty

[Shelley Burian]

I think it also makes a difference what subfield you're going for. I am the only person in my subfield that my undergrad institution has ever produced; I could have lied straight through my honors thesis class presentation because no one there had ANY idea what I was talking about so I think that put me out of the orbit regarding grad apps. Amoung the students who were applying for the same schools and professors, they were all very polite and helpful to each other (some were even "application buddies" and assisting each other) but once people had their options on the table the atmosphere definitely got more stressful and I think there was some resentment that certain people got better options than others. Nothing near the nastiness you are describing though.

[Sigaba]

I'm a graduating senior starting a Ph.D. program in the fall. I come from a small college and a pretty ambitious department. A lot of us applied to grad school. This entire semester, I've seen a lot of drama related to grad school admissions. Lots of anxiety, bitterness, mixed feelings about each other's success, and just plain cattiness and backstabbing. It's disappointing. I'm pretty satisfied with how I've handled it, mostly because I've been the major target for criticism. I'm not going to whine on here about the nasty things people say, but I am curious to know if others have encountered this problem at the end of undergrad.

For what it's worth, my true friends have been great! We've had our issues, and we've all said things we now regret, but we've worked through it and are genuinely happy for one another.

In my experience, the answer to your question is "no." Basically, we all understood that, because of the standing of the school and the department and our own hard work, we were all going to get in somewhere pretty good so we didn't see each other as competition.

MOO, you might want to take a look inward to see why you were "the major target for criticism." If different types of people are looking at you and coming to the same conclusion, is it all on them or does it have something to do with you? And is that something a trait that can get in your way next fall?

If you're ready to say "I am who I am," that's an acceptable decision. Just make sure you're willing to accept the consequences of not developing the skills to filter or to dial down that trait so that it does not become a flaw.

HTH.

Edited by Sigaba, 01 July 2012 - 03:44 AM.