MPA / MPP Folk

[locura81]

Just thought I'd get this thread started for all you MPP / MPA people out there. Feel free to post your thoughts, concerns, acceptances (and even failures, if you're not feeling too despondent ? )

As for me, I've been a happy camper thus far - accepted at UGA, Georgetown (MPP), Syracuse, and Elliott. Still waiting for word from USC. More importantly, still awaiting word of funding from all of them...argh!

[Guest]

I'm just finishing up an MPA at UGA. I'd be happy to offer any thoughts on the program if you tell me your interests, etc. I've really enjoyed it, but like any grad program, no program is perfect for everyone! Also, I am a policy type- got into UChicago/MPP and UMinnesota/MPP and chose UGA for a couple of reasons.

[pace327]

I am the one who just posted that is currently at UGA. I now have a member name...I think. Apparently I am smart enough to get into PhD programs but not smart enough to figure out how to work this website on the first try, lol.

[locura81]

Thanks so much - it'd be great to get your insight into the program. First off, why did you choose UGA over UChicago and UMinn? And, now that you're about to finish up and seemed to have had a good experience, maybe you could highlight the top couple reasons that it has been such a positive experience.

As for me, I'm not entirely sure where I'd like to focus. I'd like to get a solid foundation in policy analysis/quantitative skills, but really I'm more interested in advocacy and the philosophical underpinnings of policy.

Again, anything you could lend about UGA would be awsome. Thanks!

[pace327]

Why I chose UGA:

1. I got a fully-funded RA-ship through the Graduate School. These are hard to come by b/c you have to be nominated by your dept & then compete w/students across the university. I think at UGA ~20% of MPAs have TA or RAships...give or take. Almost all are departmental, not through the GS.

2. I wanted to have the flexibility to move to a suburb one day & not have to live in a big city (even though that's where I think I want to be). MPA = broader degree = useful at L, St, F gov't or non-profit. MPP is more specialized.

3. At UGA, if you get on the ball and meet the professors, it is not tough to stand out as a top notch policy student b/c less than half the students are really into policy. That means that you have more opportunities than, say, at a UChicago where there are, what, 200 per MPP class or something crazy like that?!

I chose Chicago over Minn, & UGA over Syracuse. Then the RA/$ really chose UGA for me...plus I visited here in March and fell in love w/the idea of getting out of the midwest (I'm from Ohio).

Good things about UGA:

1. Weather...city...cost of living...etc.

2. Fantastic faculty. REALLY approachable. Fabulously well-published (though that mostly applies to PA fields like personnel & organization theory).

3. The MPA courses are not very challenging. I'm not saying that you don't learn a lot in them, just that they're not overly difficult. This has frustrated me. But from what I hear, that is also the case at Syracuse. And that means you can challenge yourself by putting your time into harder classes. The MPA methods sequence is no tougher than what I had in undergrad as a PA major. I think this is the biggest weakness of the UGA program. So, I am taking the doctoral econometrics sequence. This is as good if not better than what you'd get at UChicago. And this is totally doable if you start w/the statistics course spring of your 1st year that the 1st year PhD students take & then take their econometrics courses your 2nd year.

4. The UGA program is getting better & better. Currently tied for #3 (Syracuse is 1, Harvard is 2, tied w/Indiana for #3) overall in public affairs. UGA's program 3 years ago was very PA based. Now there are several policy faculty members, plus a health economist starting Fall 06. That means your degree (and my degree!) will just look better & better in coming years.

5. The program has several things you can focus in: public policy analysis, health policy (new), budgeting/finance, personnel, etc. But some of the electives are not offered very often (this is actually true of many graduate programs). The public policy concentration is the easiest to fulfill in terms of having choices of electives. That said, it is also the most rigorous (in my opinion). Definitely not too challenging- but enough so that it's interesting and you stay busy. BTW, don't limit yourself to taking only 3 classes/semester like they suggest. Unless you are working full-time somewhere, take 4. You will learn more and have time to take classes outside of the department/school.

Bad things about UGA:

1. It can be tough to get out of the MPA core requirements if they are too easy for you. So, what you need to do is 1. be (appropriately) assertive. And 2. get to know a faculty member well and have him/her go to bat for you with the Graduate Coordinator if the situation arises. If you go to UGA and you have taken intermediate microeconomics in undergrad, make sure you get into Policy Analysis I your first semester. Don't let them put you in the econ seminar that is a core requirement.

2. The MPA classes are clearly not policy. So, they may not interest you. They don't really interest me. But, I've made it work, and I think I'm better off for having a broader background.

Regarding the philosophical underpinnings of policy, our Policy II class is all about equity. We read Rawls, Sen, Nozick, etc. Honestly it was probably my favorite class ever b/c I am an econ person so the whole "equity matters just as much as efficiency" thing was a new perspective for me. I am not sure about advocacy...I don't know that any schools have coursework in that, per se. I think policy analysis & quantitative techniques are the fundamentals of advocacy, though.

Bottom line: UGA's program is smaller than UChicago. You will be able to take 4+ policy electives [you are required to take a minimum of 6 electives- mine have all been policy, econ, & econometrics]. If you work your way into the econometrics sequence that the doctoral students take (PADP 8120, 8130, 8140), you will be VERY tech-ed up when you graduate and able to compete against any MPP. Plus, you'll have all the benefits of an MPA.

The number one reason I've loved UGA is because of the professor I've been an RA for. He is the professor that teaches Policy I & II as well as the 8130 course (which is linear regression). He's absolutely fantastic. Also, I've loved living in Athens in general. Academics should be your first reason to pick a school, and perhaps finances second- but location/quality of life/etc are all important. And Georgia is a great place to be. If you end up coming to UGA, I will give you tips on how to get the most you can out of this program. I got some of my best advice from a guy I met during my visit to UGA in March 2004. He was a 1st year at the time, and he had also turned down UChicago for UGA.

My final piece of advice: GO VISIT. At least your top 2 choices, if not more. Whatever $/time it takes, it will really be worth it. I thought Syracuse was my #1 choice until I visited. Nothing in particular, it just didn't feel right.

This is the longest post ever, but I wanted to give you lots of information b/c I was really stressed out choosing btw MPA/MPP. And I'm kind of in your shoes, also- I'm currently having a tough time choosing where to go for a Ph.D. 2 acceptances so far, still waiting to hear from a bunch more...

Good luck!

[meridionale]

Well, am I glad to see you here. I'm glad you registered! I'm going to send you a PM with questions. Hahaha FINALLY! This board actually helps me find out some information. If it weren't for seeing locura's notification for UGA, I wouldn't have gotten any good inside info from the site I made.

[locura81]

Pace,

Wow - I cannot thank you enough for that insightful (and expansive:) analysis of the program at UGA. I liked your thought about selecting a grad school based not only on academics and finances. I think you're right; those two probably ought to come first. But location, quality of life, experience/adventure are all extremely important as well.

Finances are a big thing for me, though. And at UGA, I know that I've been nominated both for a GS assistantship and a departmental one. While those are only nominations and not a guarantee of anything, it's still good to know that I'll have a shot (as opposed to, say, Georgetown where I didn't receive any aid and cannot justify shelling out $50K/yr in loans).

Overall, UGA sounds fantastic. I'd really like to visit, though I'm trying to figure out where/how to visit my particular schools. I have a shot at a felloweship for an MPA at George Washington, so I'd like to trek out there. Plus, I love Syracuse and want to take a trip there (even though fin. aid decisions won't come out for another month or so).

Oh, not to forget, I also resonated with your comment about quantitative skills/policy analysis being foundational to advocacy. That's kind of what I meant by the term - I'm not looking for a program that has advocacy as a track (as you said, I doubt it's offered anywhere), but I think that the theory behind policy decisions, as well as an acute understanding of the nuts and bolts of policy creation, serve as the beginning of quality advocacy.

Anyway, again, I cannot thank you enough for you help. By the way, where are you applying for your PhD's and for what program? Best of luck!

[pace327]

If the department here nominated you for a GS assistantship, that means they really want you to come and were impressed by your application. No promises, but my guess is that you will be selected for one. PADP has a strong track record of its nominees winning university-wide assistantships. If not, they may be able to find you something in the department.

I would never pay $50K/yr for grad school. Or even $30K/yr. I don't care if was Oxford or Harvard or wherever. But that's just me. I figure that if I'm living technically below the poverty level when I already have a bachelor's degree, my unearned wages from the full-time job I would have are enough of an opportunity cost. No way I'd want to add major debt to that since in the public/non-profit sectors you don't have a lot of control over moving up the ranks quickly when it comes to salary. Grad students have funding options law/med students don't...though those folks have more of a guarantee of making it back after they're working.

It was my understanding in Spr 04 that Syracuse doesn't give money to folks coming straight from undergrad. So if you are in that position, keep that in mind. But, then again, maybe that just told me that and that's not really true

I applied for PhD programs in health policy (6), policy analysis (1), and economics (6). My econ applications aren't overly strong b/c I don't have enough of a math background, but it speaks VERY well of my education/research experience/Letters of Rec from UGA that I am getting into some programs at top-ranked schools of public health.

[locura81]

Thanks for the word of encouragment. I'll keep my fingers crossed that you are correct. You're def right about not needing to incur the sort of debt that many schools would require. Of course, a lot of people feel quite differently than us. I always wonder about those people that receive no aid but head to a $50K/yr school. Are they independently wealthy? Have a kindly benefactor? Just willing to gamble that they'll collar a high-paying job with their prestigous degree? I can't, for the life, understand it. But I digress...

Congrats on the PH acceptances - any news of funding yet (since that topic seems to be of importance:)? Are you planning on pursuing a career in academia, or is this further schooling just another means toward a certain job opportunity?

[howard]

Thanks for sharing these helpful information!

I have received Syracuse's MPA admission which is very attractive to me b/c it ranked #1 in this area. However, I would like to gather more information before final desicison. Can you tell us why you have chosen UGA over Syracuse other than financial reasons?

[pace327]

Re PhD, I have funding/stipend at 1 school I'm in and I assume at the 2nd, but am not sure yet. Will find out when I visit Friday. Still waiting to hear on about 10 other applications.

Re my future career path, that's a little up in the air. I am considering going into academia, but I'm not sure. I do know, though, that basically anything I want to do requires a PhD, even if it's not academia. It's hard to break into the think tank world w/any force w/o a PhD, and it can do you some good in gov't too. Right now I've taken 2/3 of the econometrics I'll have in my PhD program but no one would know it because I've "only" got an MPA. And I could certainly never get into academia w/o a PhD.

Re choosing UGA over Syracuse, several reasons:

1. Cost. When I visited SU in March 2004, the students I talked to basically said they were counting on the Maxwell name to get them to a job where they could pay off their tuition. It is a terrific name- but I don't know that it's $40,000 terrific.

2. SU's program is compact b/c it is all in 11 months. That leaves you little (if any) time for research or internships. I specifically asked about this. Research opportunities were a big reason I choose UGA.

3. SU's program is huge. Something like 100-120+ per class? I wanted something a little smaller where I could stand out and get to know the professors. Yet my program (~55-65/year, depending) is still large enough to have a variety of classes offered and to meet many interesting people.

4. After visiting both programs, I just felt more comfortable at UGA. It's not that I'm not willing to step outside of the box- I did that by leaving the midwest in the first place. But at UGA, things just seemed to "fit" for me. I had that expectation before visiting SU but just didn't feel good about the visit. That's why I think visiting is SO important.

5. Quality of life. At UGA, you have more time to research/intern/whatever. Unless you love heavy snow and really cold weather for 5 months/yr, SU is not a fun place to be. I am young (did MPA straight from undergrad) so I did not mind doing a 2 year program. I can see how SU would be particularly attractive to mid-career folks since it is only 1 year.

Go visit and talk to current students. They will probably be honest with you. If it seems like they are saying only good things, ask them what their least favorite aspect of the program is. No program is perfect.

[JM]

I applied for MPA (admin and analysis) at Carleton, Concordia, and McMaster in Canada.

I have my fingers crossed.

I think I have found my niche with this subject area as it interests me a lot and I currently work for the government. However, I hate when people say "so you want to be a Politician?" umm no :roll:

[densecoyote]

Now that we (the MPA/MPP folk) have started hearing back. I am interested in knowing how all of you are going to choose the school you go to?

[locura81]

Just received an acceptance from USC's MPA program w/ a 12K tuition scholarship and 5K stipend. It's not a full ride (as I'd been crossing my fingers for) but it's a huge help nonetheless. Can't wait for these next couple weeks as other schools start to send out their fin. aid notices. Still, it's nice to have this one in my back pocket. Good luck, guys and gals!

[meridionale]

I wish I had more MPA people on my website strickly for selfish reasons!!

At my interview for UNC, I heard a few names consistantly thrown out as far as where people were applying:

Syracuse

Kansas (city management)

UGA

What other "staple" MPA programs are there that probably get the most applicants?

[Guest]

Indiana University is another big place people apply. Tied w/UGA in the rankings (#3). I don't know what their specialties are.

People at UGA have left programs at Auburn, LSU, and College of Charleston (I think?) for Georgia.

[pace327]

Sorry, that was me that posted about IU as guest. I thought I was logged in. Do y'all know there is another MPA thread going on?

http://forum.thegradcafe.com/viewtopic.php?t=151

That UGA tailgating post as guest is me, too.

[Guest]

I applied to three programs American and JHU (MPP), and UDelaware -my alma mater (MPA)

I've already been accepted to Delaware and American.

I will attend UD because I received full funding + stipend, and great assistantship opportunites in my research area (Educational Policy)

[Guest]

I was considering Georgetown...but I knew I wasn't going to get funding ....so I saved that ap fee money..hehe

(I'm the same person in the prior post.... I'm going to need to register)

[meridionale]

Sorry, that was me that posted about IU as guest. I thought I was logged in. Do y'all know there is another MPA thread going on?

http://forum.thegradcafe.com/viewtopic.php?t=151

That UGA tailgating post as guest is me, too.

Sorry, I can't even post my threads in the correct place. Luckily I haven't yelled at anyone for posting in the wrong forums (thank goodness!!).

[Guest]

...based on a survey of deans, directors, and department chairs representing 253 master's programs.

Note: Lists of schools and individuals surveyed were provided by the National Association of Schools of Public Affairs and Administration and the Association for Public Policy Analysis and Management. Respondents were asked to rate the academic quality of programs on a scale of 1 (marginal) to 5 (distinguished). The response rate was 57 percent. Surveys were conducted by Synovate.

The institutions below received the greatest number of nominations from survey respondents for their excellence in a given specialty. Keep in mind that nominees were drawn only from the schools surveyed. So, for example, a university like Yale–which offers a degree in environmental management through its School of Forestry and Environmental Management but not a degree in public affairs–would not show up here.

1. Syracuse University (NY) 4.6

2. Harvard University (MA) 4.5

3. Indiana University--Bloomington 4.2

University of Georgia 4.2

5. Princeton University (NJ) 4.1

University of California--Berkeley 4.1

7. University of Southern California 4.0

8. Carnegie Mellon University (PA) 3.9

University of Michigan--Ann Arbor 3.9

10. American University (DC) 3.8

Duke University (NC) 3.8

George Washington University (DC) 3.8

SUNY--Albany 3.8

University of Kansas 3.8

University of North Carolina--Chapel Hill 3.8

University of Texas--Austin 3.8

17. Georgetown University (DC) 3.7

New York University 3.7

University of Chicago 3.7

University of Wisconsin--Madison 3.7

21. Columbia University (NY) 3.6

University of California--Los Angeles 3.6

University of Maryland--College Park 3.6

University of Minnesota--Twin Cities 3.6

University of Pittsburgh 3.6

26. Arizona State University 3.5

Florida State University 3.5

Georgia State University 3.5

Johns Hopkins University (MD) 3.5

Rutgers State University--Newark (NJ) 3.5

University of Nebraska--Omaha 3.5

University of Washington 3.5

Virginia Tech 3.5

34. University of Kentucky 3.4

35. Cornell University (NY) 3.3

Indiana University-Purdue University--Indianapolis 3.3

Northern Illinois University 3.3

Texas A&M University--College Station 3.3

University of Colorado--Denver 3.3

University of Delaware 3.3

University of Missouri--Columbia 3.3

42. Cleveland State University 3.2

Naval Postgraduate School (CA) 3.2

Ohio State University 3.2

University of Pennsylvania 3.2

46. CUNY--John Jay College 3.1

George Mason University (VA) 3.1

University of Arizona 3.1

University of Illinois--Chicago 3.1

University of Utah 3.1

51. Brandeis University (MA) 3.0

CUNY--Baruch College 3.0

New School for Social Research (NY) 3.0

North Carolina State University 3.0

Portland State University (OR) 3.0

Rutgers State University--New Brunswick (NJ) 3.0

57. Georgia Institute of Technology 2.9

Michigan State University 2.9

Monterey Institute of International Studies (CA) 2.9

Pennsylvania State University--Harrisburg 2.9

University of Baltimore (MD) 2.9

University of Connecticut 2.9

University of North Texas 2.9

University of Wisconsin--Milwaukee 2.9

65. Auburn University--Montgomery (AL) 2.8

Brigham Young University--Provo (UT) 2.8

Florida Atlantic University 2.8

San Francisco State University 2.8

University of Illinois--Springfield 2.8

University of Maryland--Baltimore County 2.8

University of Missouri--St. Louis 2.8

University of Oklahoma 2.8

University of South Carolina--Columbia 2.8

Virginia Commonwealth University 2.8

West Virginia University 2.8

76. Auburn University--Main Campus (AL) 2.7

California State University--Long Beach 2.7

College of William and Mary (VA) 2.7

Florida International University 2.7

Kansas State University 2.7

San Diego State University 2.7

University of Alabama--Birmingham 2.7

University of Denver 2.7

University of Missouri--Kansas City 2.7

University of North Carolina--Charlotte 2.7

University of Tennessee--Knoxville 2.7

University of Texas--Arlington 2.7

University of Texas--Dallas 2.7

Washington State University 2.7

Wayne State University (MI) 2.7

Willamette University (OR) 2.7

92. California State University--Hayward 2.6

California State University--Los Angeles 2.6

California State University--Sacramento 2.6

Iowa State University 2.6

Louisiana State University--Baton Rouge 2.6

Northeastern University (MA) 2.6

Pepperdine University (CA) 2.6

Rutgers State University--Camden (NJ) 2.6

Southern Illinois University--Carbondale 2.6

University of Central Florida 2.6

University of Louisville (KY) 2.6

University of Massachusetts--Amherst 2.6

University of Oregon 2.6

105. Boise State University (ID) 2.5

East Carolina University (NC) 2.5

James Madison University (VA) 2.5

Mississippi State University 2.5

San Jose State University (CA) 2.5

Seton Hall University (NJ) 2.5

University of New Mexico 2.5

University of North Carolina--Greensboro 2.5

University of San Francisco 2.5

University of Southern Maine 2.5

Western Michigan University 2.5

Wichita State University (KS) 2.5

1. University of Kansas

2. Cleveland State University

3. University of Southern California

4. New York University

Northern Illinois University

6. University of Illinois–Chicago

University of North Carolina–Chapel Hill

8. Syracuse University (NY)

9. University of Delaware

10. University of North Texas

11. University of California–Los Angeles

12. Georgia State University

University of California–Berkeley

14. Carnegie Mellon University (PA)

University of Georgia

16. Harvard University (MA)

New School for Social Research (NY)

Rutgers State University–Newark (NJ)

Rutgers State University–New Brunswick (NJ)

20. Johns Hopkins University (MD)

North Carolina State University

Portland State University (OR)

Wayne State University (MI)

24. Columbia University (NY)

Florida State University

26. Arizona State University

CUNY–Baruch College

University of Texas–Arlington

29. George Washington University (DC)

Princeton University (NJ)

University of Maryland–College Park

University of Nebraska–Omaha

1. Indiana University–Bloomington

2. Duke University (NC)

3. Syracuse University (NY)

4. University of Michigan–Ann Arbor

5. Harvard University (MA)

6. University of California–Berkeley

7. Carnegie Mellon University (PA)

8. University of Maryland–College Park

University of Washington

10. University of North Carolina–Chapel Hill

11. Georgia Institute of Technology

12. Columbia University (NY)

Johns Hopkins University (MD)

Princeton University (NJ)

15. Portland State University (OR)

16. Cornell University (NY)

Indiana University-Purdue University–Indianapolis

University of Southern California

19. University of Wisconsin–Madison

[Guest]

1. New York University

2. Harvard University (MA)

3. Johns Hopkins University (MD)

4. University of Michigan–Ann Arbor

5. University of California–Berkeley

6. George Washington University (DC)

7. Carnegie Mellon University (PA)

University of Southern California

9. Duke University (NC)

Syracuse University (NY)

University of North Carolina–Chapel Hill

12. Georgetown University (DC)

Indiana University-Purdue University–Indianapolis

14. Brandeis University (MA)

15. Princeton University (NJ)

University of California–Los Angeles

17. University of Alabama–Birmingham

University of Minnesota–Twin Cities

19. University of Chicago

[Guest]

1. Carnegie Mellon University (PA)

2. Syracuse University (NY)

3. Harvard University (MA)

4. SUNY–Albany

5. Brandeis University (MA)

6. University of Michigan–Ann Arbor

7. University of California–Berkeley

8. Georgia Institute of Technology

University of Nebraska–Omaha

10. University of Chicago

University of Southern California

12. Indiana University–Bloomington

[Guest]

1. Indiana University–Bloomington

Syracuse University (NY)

3. Harvard University (MA)

4. Indiana University-Purdue University–Indianapolis

5. University of Minnesota–Twin Cities

University of Southern California

7. Johns Hopkins University (MD)

New York University

Seton Hall University (NJ)

University of Washington

11. University of Pittsburgh

12. New School for Social Research (NY)

13. University of Georgia

14. University of Delaware

University of San Francisco

16. University of Missouri–Kansas City

University of Utah

[Guest]

1. Syracuse University (NY)

2. Indiana University–Bloomington

3. University of Georgia

4. New York University

5. Georgia State University

6. University of Kentucky

7. University of Connecticut

8. Northern Illinois University

9. SUNY–Albany

10. Harvard University (MA)

University of California–Berkeley

12. Duke University (NC)

University of Michigan–Ann Arbor

14. George Washington University (DC)

University of Southern California

16. Carnegie Mellon University (PA)

University of Texas–Austin

18. University of Maryland–College Park

19. Princeton University (NJ)

20. University of Pennsylvania

21. George Mason University (VA)

University of Illinois–Chicago

University of Nebraska–Omaha

University of North Carolina–Chapel Hill

University of Wisconsin–Madison

26. Florida State University

University of Kansas

28. American University (DC)

Rutgers State University–Newark (NJ)

Willamette University (OR)

31. Arizona State University

Pennsylvania State University–Harrisburg

Wichita State University (KS)