General Linguistics/ or foreign language linguistics

[Francophile1]

So, I am finishing up an MA in lit, and would like to get another MA and PhD in linguistics in the future (since this field interests me more than lit). I noticed that there are two kinds of linguistic paths. Basically one can go through a regular linguistic course or one through a foreign lang department (such as French linguistics/Slavic linguistics/spanish..etc)

Is one path better than the other?

Is it possible to get let' say a linguistic job in Linguistic department with a PhD in foreign language linguistics? Or is it better to take the regular linguistic route?

Of course I understand that I could get a job in the foreign language department easily with such a degree, but am wondering about flexibility to be employable in linguistic departments.

[fuzzylogician]

Francophile, I really think you need to take a step back and ask yourself why you want a MA and/or a PhD in linguistics. I think you would benefit a lot from taking time off from school, getting a job, and finding out what's out there and what you might want to do with your life. Do you want to be a research professor, or do anything else that requires a PhD in linguistics? Doing a MA+PhD without having some kind of goal like this in mind could be an investment of a lot of time and money that could go to other venues that might be better for your overall growth. It's not enough to have a vague idea that you're interested in a field to do a PhD in it and be successful, and MAs are not cheap. 

 

But to answer your question, it probably depends on the department and what they are looking for. Generally speaking, there are "formal" departments and "applied" departments. The research questions, methods, and goals of applied and formal linguistics are quite different. You need to figure out which kind interests you. Neither one is "better," they are just different. If you study general linguistics in a formal/theoretical department, you'll have the preparation to apply for those kinds of jobs. Likewise, if you study in an applied department, you'll have that kind of preparation. Some departments have some of both, but at least as a student my impression is that you very quickly specialize in one or the other and don't get a very round education. There are also foreign languages department that have some linguistics, often applied. When you apply for jobs, you'll compete against people with extensive training and expertise in the area that the job is advertised for. If you are a formal linguist applying to an applied department, you'll be at a disadvantage. You can try and make that a strength by standing out and explaining why you're nonetheless a good fit for the department and why you are applying for a position that's very different from your training, but no doubt people will wonder about your cultural fit and your ability to teach the courses that the department needs taught. (And same for an applied linguist applying to a formal department.) 

 

For reference, I suggest you look at the jobs page on the Linguist List. You can see what jobs are currently advertised, where they are and what qualifications they are looking for. Jobs vary from year to year, but this can still give you some indication of what's out there. Keep in mind that it's early in the season -- a lot of jobs won't be advertised for another few weeks, but if you look again in November, most TT jobs will probably be on there. 

[Francophile1]

fuzzylogician- thanks for the input.

A few things....this is not a decision hat I just came up with just because I do not know what to do with my life...I really want to be a professor and do research I just had to find out after my MA in lit, that I am more interested in language itself and it's scientific applications rather than lit theory.

I am also not a student who is like 23-24 right out of grad school with no real world experience. I took some time off after BA to work and returned to academia because this is truly what I want to do.

Yes technically I could go back to the workforce teach at HS or community college, which I considered as well...but that is not ultimately what I want to do and would basically just prolong my education (time wise).

 

Now about my linguistics question. I thank you for your response. I have already been on the Linguistic site you mentioned and saw job posts, they seem to be a variation of computational linguistics/applied and some with foreign languages.

 

What I was asking and wanted to know specifically is in relation to programs in foreign language which are based in linguistics. Not applied but theoretical.

Just so I can explain myself clearly consider these 3 scenarios.

 

1. I complete an MA in foreign language-focus linguistics (theoretical or applied)- then go onto phd with same focus

2. Complete MA in Linguistics (general)-then do same PhD

 

Do you (or anyone else who reads this) think with option #1 I would have more chances to be employed across the board in foreign lang programs AND linguistics or would I be at a disadvantage for the latter (competing with students who did option #2)?

 

My MA was financed, and I will only apply to financed programs for the 2nd one (they do exist!)

 

And one more thing. I find it funny when people suggest making sure this is what you really want to do by getting real world experience or anything like this.

How can you possibly find this out without taking linguistic classes??? Just a thought

[xolo]

Hi Francophile, I think Fuzzy gave really good advice based on your post and I'm sure it was with good intent.  The stuff in your second post certainly clarifies your situation considerably.  I think it is really excellent that you have come to some realizations before you started a PhD.  I can't speak regarding French but in Spanish it is very common to have a linguistics track and a literature track, that is pretty traditional and seems to be omnipresent.  I am not a traditional student and I am not an academic but I'm not quite sure why you are asking these questions.  Am I wrong in thinking that French-Linguistics and Linguistics are totally different departments?  Under the auspices of a Spanish department, whether it be linguistics or literature, the emphasis is on Spanish as a foreign language, at least in the US.  I've never heard of someone with a PhD in Spanish of any type getting a professorship in a linguistics department.  But I am operating from ignorance, I would like to hear from other people, too.  However, if you can pull this off I would think you would be uniquely qualified, a good thing.  What about a #3, complete MA in French and do a PhD in linguistics?  Is this impractical?

Edited August 30, 2014 by eyepod

[Francophile1]

Thanks. I didn't mean to sound harsh or anything just wanted to clarify things! The reason why I am asking all this is because of the fact that I do not want to continue in Lit and am interested in Linguistics. Actually I know that in spanish it is very common to have ling. track, but for the other languages much less so.

Yes I primarily wanted to know if someone receives PhD in (any language) with linguistics focus would they also qualify to enter linguistics market, so could they apply to both departments, their language and linguistics, since under such a track they take a lot of similar courses. I am talking about theoretical linguistics here.

And as far as your remark about getting MA in French and then PhD in Linguistics, so far most of the programs I have contacted suggested getting a MA or significant exposure to post graduate linguistic classes before applying to a PhD. SInce I do not have that, I would have to get a 2nd MA in linguistics.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Francophile1

[fuzzylogician]

Yes I primarily wanted to know if someone receives PhD in (any language) with linguistics focus would they also qualify to enter linguistics market, so could they apply to both departments, their language and linguistics, since under such a track they take a lot of similar courses. I am talking about theoretical linguistics here.

 

I don't think that's common at all. What you sometimes see is people with a linguistics PhD whose research concentrates mostly on a particular language or language family get a job in a language/lit department that specializes in that language, and offer a few linguistics courses there. Off the top of my head I can think of people who have done that with Japanese, Russian, German, and English. I'm sure there are others. It's not always something people want to do because it means that you may get isolated as a scholar. You won't have (m)any other colleagues who work within the same theoretical framework as you, and you won't have (m)any students who come to do a linguistics PhD with you. But you could certainly introduce students to the study of your language within a theoretical framework and send off good students to do a PhD in other departments, and some people are content with that. 

[Gnome Chomsky 2.0]

Linguistics is the science (structure, sound, meaning) of language. Even though linguistics might be contained in the same school as foreign languages at your university doesn't mean the two are closely related. Linguistics can come in handy to leaning/teaching foreign languages though. I'd suggest taking a few real linguistics classes before making a decision to pursue a linguistics PhD. It can be some heavy stuff. If you're not passionate about R expressions, syntactic movement and anaphoras, then maybe linguistics isn't for you. My advice: do as much research as possible before making a major life decision.

[Francophile1]

One follow up question on all of this. As I mentioned before I am in Lit now and really want to pursue a Linguistics PhD after but lack graduate courses. 

Would you, in my case get first an MA? 

SO according to everything that I've read it is more useful as far as job diversity goes to major in General Linguistics rather than through a foreign language department (i.e French Linguistics)??

I am sorry If I am repeating myself...just trying to find the best option

[mncz]

Hi Francophile,

 

I am still an undergraduate, but my focus is on theoretical linguistics and Mandarin. To your most recent inquiry, I can only share the state of my current intentions.

A PhD is a tremendous commitment. It's highly specialized. Finding the right school and program is also a daunting task. I cannot begin to imagine transitioning into a PhD program without having first explored the field further by way of obtaining a master's degree. My plan is to complete my undergraduate thesis and move to Taiwan or China, further explore my interests in the interface between Mandarin and linguistics, and only after having done so, make a calculated step to move forward with a PhD (or otherwise). It may turn out that I find myself more fascinated with the computational or cognitive neurolinguistic conversation. Take your time, but if you want to examine a foreign language of your choice through the theoretical linguistic lense, there are many specialized programs that focus precisely on that purpose.

Hope this helps. I've tried to remain concise and relevant to your question.

Matthew

Edited September 16, 2014 by mncz

[AngelinaZ]

I already did what mncz is planning to do. I am enrolled in a master's degree program in China. It is an uphill battle, but I love what I am doing and not planning to give up. My Mandarin is much better than before, I don't think I would have learned this much unless I had decided to make the commitment. I second his advice though. You have to know what you are getting yourself into.

 

I am not sure how things go in the US or France. In China, you can get a Master's in Linguistics and Applied Linguistics (语言学及应用语言学) from a Department of Chinese. Same Department offers other degrees, such as Chinese Language and Literature. Almost all of my classmates are Chinese.

Then there is a Foreign Languages Department and there you can get a Master's in Foreign Linguistics and Applied Linguistics.

I guess general linguistics here is leaning towards Chinese linguistics because we are part of that Department. 

 

You can try to find a PhD program in general linguistics offered by a French university or ENS. You can even try Switzerland. Explore all your options.

[Robertpt]

 

A PhD is a tremendous commitment. It's highly specialized. Finding the right school and program is also a daunting task. I cannot begin to imagine transitioning into a PhD program without having first explored the field further by way of obtaining a master's degree. My plan is to complete my undergraduate thesis and move to Taiwan or China, further explore my interests in the interface between Mandarin and linguistics, and only after having done so, make a calculated step to move forward with a PhD (or otherwise). It may turn out that I find myself more fascinated with the computational or cognitive neurolinguistic conversation. Take your time, but if you want to examine a foreign language of your choice through the theoretical linguistic lense, there are many specialized programs that focus precisely on that purpose.

 

 

Hi, Matthew,

 

If you would like to join a program where you can work on Chinese linguistics, and if you really want to go to Asia (I think you can do just fine in the US), I would highly recommend a program in Hong Kong (CUHK, CityU, PolyU, maybe HKU, depending on your interests and approach) over any program in China. Unless you want to work on Chinese historical phonology (which has a totally different approach from modern linguistics) or psycholinguistics of Chinese (in psychology departments), I don't think there are good places in mainland China to do linguistics, especially if you want to prepare for a PhD in the future. Furthermore, MPhil in Hong Kong is fully funded by the government, and applicants outside of Asia are highly welcomed. Taiwan and Singapore, on the other hand, should be great places to learn Chinese linguistics too.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Robertpt

[AngelinaZ]

Why the Iron Curtain?

 

Angelina