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Need to decide which Criminal Justice program to accept


camerica

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Hey everyone!

 

I've recently been admitted to several schools for criminal justice-related Master's programs for Spring 2015. I would appreciate any insight (particularly from those in the field) on which program to choose. I have a little research and work experience in the field, but I did my BA in International Affairs and Political Science at Florida State. I want to start working immediately after graduation preferably at the FBI or ICE. 

 

Here are the schools to which I've been admitted and the offers I've received:

 

University of South Carolina: in-state tuition scholarship + $500 stipend per semester

Suffolk University: Peace Corps Fellowship (30% tuition discount + internship placement) + $4,500 scholarship per semester

American University: unknown

University of Colorado Denver: unknown

Northeastern University: offered a 25% tuition, but I had to turn them down already

 

I'm leaning between American and UC Denver. However, I haven't been notified yet whether I'll be receiving aid at either of those schools (and time is ticking). American seems to be the better choice due to its location, notoriety, and rank. But the price tag, including cost of living, is a lot higher. UC Denver also has internship/job opportunities available and I feel like the city would suit me better (just a feeling; I've never been there). Yet, the program isn't ranked and I'm not sure that it has the same name recognition for future employers.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks in advance! 

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Guest criminologist

How much work experience do you have that is relevant to criminal justice? It will not be worth studying a master's in criminal justice if you want to work at ICE or the FBI, federal gov't agencies value work experience a lot more than a master's degree, and they don't care about the name of the school you went to. The only way a master's in CJ is going to help for those types of positions is if you already work in the field and need one to get a promotion, or to meet a requirement for positions that let you substitute a master's degree, though work experience will always trump a master's. 

Edited by criminologist
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How much work experience do you have that is relevant to criminal justice? It will not be worth studying a master's in criminal justice if you want to work at ICE or the FBI, federal gov't agencies value work experience a lot more than a master's degree, and they don't care about the name of the school you went to. The only way a master's in CJ is going to help for those types of positions is if you already work in the field and need one to get a promotion, or to meet a requirement for positions that let you substitute a master's degree, though work experience will always trump a master's. 

 

I have zero work experience in CJ. That's actually something I meant to bring up in my first post. Namely, I've been hearing a lot from program directors that I definitely would have received more aid if I applied in the Fall. My plan for a long time has been to start school in January, but that got me thinking that I could work some first and then apply again. I'm currently serving in the Peace Corps in Sub-Saharan Africa and will be coming back to the US in December. My service actually qualifies me for non-competitive gov't hiring eligibility for one year. 

 

So you're saying that these programs who are advertising for "those who wish to enter the criminal justice field" (including jobs in the fed) are.......being misleading?

 

One other thing I should mention is that I will absolutely be pursuing an internship during my studies (for example with one of those organizations) in order to gain more experience in the field.

 

Edit: so the zero work experience in CJ isn't entirely true... I did work eight months in a State Attorney's Office but it was mostly clerical/support services. In addition, I have a significant amount of project management experience, though it's related to health, development, and international exchange. 

Edited by camerica
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Guest criminologist

When they say "those who wish to enter the CJ field" they really mean something like police officer, probation officer, etc. not higher up positions. But these jobs don't even require you to have a master's degree (though you would have an advantage in the application process if you did). Not sure what specific job you want but it's very unrealistic that someone with little or no CJ experience could get a job as a FBI agent or analyst just because they have a master's degree. I have talked to a lot of students in this field and a lot of them have your way of thinking, that getting a masters in criminal justice will land them a good federal job, but it never works out like that. They end up working in a position not requiring a masters like a police officer/security or not relevant to the CJ field. You would actually have a much better shot of getting a job in those agencies if you worked as a patrol officer or joined the military for a few years instead of getting a master's. But if you really want to do a master's try get into a program where they would give you an assistantship so you wouldn't have to pay for any of it, it's too risky otherwise. Do not worry about name recognition because it's of little importance to federal agencies, just needs to be accredited. In my opinion a master's degree in criminology/criminal justice is really only useful for 2 types of people: one that already works in the field and needs one to get a promotion, or someone who is interested in getting preparation for continuing onto PhD programs.

Edited by criminologist
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Hmm... this is disheartening. But I thank you for your insight. This is especially bothersome as I discussed specifically what I wanted to do and where I wanted to work (in addition to having described my background) with various program directors as well as professionals in the field and no one ever mentioned this.

 

What would you recommend I do? I am interested in analyst positions and have considered becoming an agent (FBI, Interpol, ICE, etc...). I speak French fluently and have basic proficiency in Arabic and Fulani. I would also enjoy research and consulting, specifically in the areas of corruption, organized, international, and transnational crime. Is this unrealistic since I've never worked in law enforcement?

 

On a side note, the program at American is Justice, Law and Criminology with several concentrations available (justice and public policy, terrorism, jurisprudence, etc.) so it's not strictly CJ/criminology. (I would send you the link but apparently we can't post them here? It won't copy and paste.)

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I might be a little more positive about your prospects. I totally believe that criminologist knows what they're talking about, but I think that I would be a bit more optimistic.

 

For context though: I'm Canadian, which affects my interpretation here in two ways, (1) MA degrees are looked at differently here than in the US; they're often funded, required for PhD entry, and beneficial on their own as a qualification - I get the sense that this is different in the US where they have all this language about "terminal" MA degrees; and (2) I'm more familiar with CSIS than the FBI.

 

You seem very focused and accomplished, and you are trying to get a sense of what you're getting into and what it'll do for you; for those reasons I think you'd fair better - and get more out of - a MA program than most. I would recommend looking at the nitty gritty details.

(1) Where do these grad programs ACTUALLY PLACE students?

(2) What do the ACTUAL JOB POSTINGS say, for the positions you want?

(3) The ACTUAL PEOPLE who have the jobs that you want: what is their background?

 

In my familiarity with CSIS, different positions have different requirements (they employ developmental psychologists who NEED an MA and program people who need specific technical certificates, and legal analysts who need JDs, for example). For positions that ask for an undergrad plus experience, they often say that a degree beyond the BA could partly "count" as experience. They also seem to really value multilingual applicants (potential good news for you). Finally, they have internship/co-op programs for undergrad and grad students, though one has to do a lot of their own legwork to coordinate this. Do any of these contexts translate to yours? Look at the actual FBI/ICE/etc; sites and job postings to get a sense of what they value. If an MA program can offer you networking and/or a springboard for interning, then this might be worth it. If you need the work experience, this might be a good way to segue into that, you just might have to be prepared to do a few years in a position that isn't your ultimate aim. So people often work for a couple of years, then go get an MA, and then move up - I don't see why you can't reverse this a bit by doing the MA, working, then working some more! If you're not region-locked and you have the capacity/interest for an MA, and you can get funding, now might be the most optimal time in your life to get an MA. Just, look at all the "actual"s first - actual placements/postings/people, as per my questions above, to see how MA programs can be translated in reality for you.

 

 

Good luck!

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Guest criminologist

Hmm... this is disheartening. But I thank you for your insight. This is especially bothersome as I discussed specifically what I wanted to do and where I wanted to work (in addition to having described my background) with various program directors as well as professionals in the field and no one ever mentioned this.

 

What would you recommend I do? I am interested in analyst positions and have considered becoming an agent (FBI, Interpol, ICE, etc...). I speak French fluently and have basic proficiency in Arabic and Fulani. I would also enjoy research and consulting, specifically in the areas of corruption, organized, international, and transnational crime. Is this unrealistic since I've never worked in law enforcement?

 

On a side note, the program at American is Justice, Law and Criminology with several concentrations available (justice and public policy, terrorism, jurisprudence, etc.) so it's not strictly CJ/criminology. (I would send you the link but apparently we can't post them here? It won't copy and paste.)

 

The reason why schools don't mention it is because it would drive some prospective students away, the ones that haven't been working in the CJ field and want to enter it. A lot of master's programs are designed for people already working in the field or are research-focused. It's hard to compare placements because so many master's students already work in the field and are just getting a degree to advance in their position.

 

I think that getting a degree at American would be worth it if you wanted to work in a non-profit sector, think tank, research institute, etc.. in DC., not federal law enforcement.  Those places value education just as much as experience, unlike the federal agencies who hire people from any school as long as they have a lot of experience. If you look at the federal job postings they don't even require you to have a master's, but sometimes it can be used as a substitution which means they care about relevant work experience a lot more. (You will be surprised how many analysts work in federal law enforcement that have a online degree from a for-profit school like University of Phoenix because they have already worked as an analyst in the military)

 

You can google something like "criminology degree worth it" and read some of the results

Edited by criminologist
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Alright, I figured it out... I'm coming to Canada!

 

haha, just kidding. Thank you, surefire! I really appreciate your encouragement!

 

I have to admit I've been guilty of idealizing this perfect job that may or may not exist which involves all of the things I mentioned above. Since I've been out of the country and academia for more than 3 years, and I know that I love CJ and school in general, I figured that I couldn't go wrong getting my Master's degree ASAP (for personal reasons as well as the fact that it's only going to get harder and harder to get it done when I'm married and start having kids). But I have done research into analyst and agent positions. I believe an MA/MS could get me a job as an analyst as some of them require knowledge of statistical evaluations and research in addition to project management experience (which I already have a fairly good amount of even if it's not in law enforcement). A Master's would also mean entering at a higher pay grade. Places like the FBI seem to value diverse experience and education and I believe that the education/work experience I have already plus my language abilities could qualify me to be an agent should I choose to go that route.

 

I have looked into internships such as the FBI Honors Internship program and confirmed with American that students in their program have interned there before (as well as at the DHS and Defense Intelligence Agency). My goal is to complete an internship that will translate into a job upon graduation and I am 100% committed to achieving this... in all seriousness, I won't graduate until I do! Unfortunately,they don't keep statistics on their alumni job placements. However, this is just one more reason I think DC might be the best choice; the networking opportunities (as much as I hate that aspect of this whole process) alone might be worth the cost of living/loan debt.

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You bring up a really good point, criminologist, which is the possibility of working in research, at think-tanks, and NGOs. Have you done this? Or do you know what the prospects are for making a career in that area? I am definitely interested in social justice and human rights, but I've been worried that I couldn't find a job in those areas without a law degree.

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Guest criminologist

Well I think a master's in CJ would prepare you much better for a entry-level research position in one of the think tanks, because the work that federal agencies do is mostly qualitative but what you learn in grad school would be quantitative with the statistics and methods courses you would take. Federal law enforcement doesn't really work with statistical methods/quantitative research. Intelligence analysis is mostly a qualitative field and the only real way to gain that experience is if you are in the military or already working in law enforcement.

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