restricting job search after PhD to a small regional area feasible?

[cpk2013]

When I entered my PhD program, I was pretty open to the idea of applying for jobs all over the country after I finish. But since then, I've been leaning more towards returning to the San Francisco Bay Area for a variety of personal and family reasons. I have 3 more years left in my phd program, which is in the social sciences field but my specialization is in atmospheric/oceanic sciences. 

How feasible would it be for me to find research or teaching positions if I restrict it to a small area like the SF Bay Area? My preference would be teaching positions, even as a lecturer, at state schools or community colleges. Ideally, I would want to teach in a 4 year institution but considering that I'm limiting myself geographically, I am loosening my restrictions on the other aspects. I do love teaching more than researching and find it to be more fulfilling for the reasons why I chose to enter my field in the first place. 

I know I have 3 more years left to finish my PhD, but for the last year I may request my department to allow me to complete my dissertation remotely. In that case, I may consider entering the job market in 2 years instead of 3, but would I qualify for teaching and research positions with just a master's and ABD? I wonder if I would even be considered for a job in 2 years if they know I'm working on my dissertation still.

I realize this is not why people enter PhD programs to settle for options like mine, but a change in family situation is why I want to restrict my search to this area (and am eager to finish my program on time so I can return asap).  I feel very worried about not being able to find a job in my field and having to consider a change in careers after working so hard to finish the phd.

Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[fuzzylogician]

This is really one place where all we can say is that it depends. It's obviously not impossible, but it becomes more difficult the more you restrict the kinds of jobs you apply for. So, it depends on how many jobs are available in your area that you would consider and how any applicants they get, and frankly it depends on how good you are and how much they would want you. The big problem, as I see it, is what happens if you don't find anything suitable in the first year of your search. It often takes people several years to land a job they are happy with. Will you be willing/able to compromise on your first job and continue applying for several years? Will you be able to continue doing research in the meanwhile? (Most schools will at least say that research matters, even if they are mostly a teaching institution.) 

As for applying ABD, it's not impossible to get a job before you have your PhD, but this is field and person dependent. Schools will be concerned that if you start teaching, you may get distracted and not graduate. This is something you can address by having a substantial portion of the dissertation done early, showing them you have a concrete plan to finish, and having letter writers address this and assure the search committee that you will make it. That aside, you will be competing with much more experienced candidates; if there are enough of them, sometimes ABD candidates are not even considered, regardless of how good they might be. Again, there are exceptions, and it's hard to know. But I would in your case probably suggest going on the job market to get the experience and try and make connections in the Bay area so they know you ahead of time and think of you if any opening comes up. It's time consuming, but generally it can be useful to apply when you still have the safety net of a possible extra year in grad school. 

One thing you can do to help your chances is start identifying the schools you might want to work at, and start networking there early, before you go on the job market. See if there are ways to meet the relevant faculty who are there and make yourself known. It's much easier to get a job if the current faculty already know and like you, and it's more difficult if there is no face or personality to go with the CV that is in front of them. 

[cpk2013]

I would be willing to compromise on my first job until I find something I would be happy with. If I am honest, finding any descent job in the Bay Area after I finish would make me content enough as it will allow me to relocate and have some income while I look/wait for teaching/research jobs in my field. 

Thank you for the suggestion in networking at the schools early. I may be there for summer next year and will make it a point to contact them early and see if I can work with them on projects, etc. There are 2 state schools within commute distance from the city I will be living in for the summer and 4-5 community colleges (and 2  University of California schools but I'm skeptical I would find a job there right after I graduate).  

I've been also kind of learning more programming languages. I know of one that's used in the science field but I've been trying to learn python on the side for research purposes and so I can get an entry level job as a programmer in the area (since it's silicon valley) as a back up when looking for jobs but I realize I'll be competing with people more qualified.

Curious to see if there's anyone else on this forum that's been restriction in terms of location for jobs for whatever reason. 

 

[cpk2013]

Also, I'm okay with part-time positions for a few years since I would have paid off my loans already and have money saved up. 

[spunky]

I would be willing to compromise on my first job until I find something I would be happy with. If I am honest, finding any descent job in the Bay Area after I finish would make me content enough as it will allow me to relocate and have some income while I look/wait for teaching/research jobs in my field. 

Thank you for the suggestion in networking at the schools early. I may be there for summer next year and will make it a point to contact them early and see if I can work with them on projects, etc. There are 2 state schools within commute distance from the city I will be living in for the summer and 4-5 community colleges (and 2  University of California schools but I'm skeptical I would find a job there right after I graduate).  

I've been also kind of learning more programming languages. I know of one that's used in the science field but I've been trying to learn python on the side for research purposes and so I can get an entry level job as a programmer in the area (since it's silicon valley) as a back up when looking for jobs but I realize I'll be competing with people more qualified.

Curious to see if there's anyone else on this forum that's been restriction in terms of location for jobs for whatever reason. 

 

Well, for personal reasons (my husband’s job and the home we purchased is in the city where I reside) I really had no other option but to stay here for graduate school. And I probably won’t have any other option but to look for a job within the area as well. I agonized a little bit about this situation because I realized that my unmarried friends were a lot freer to move around, do program exchanges in other universities, etc. whereas I had to stay here. And as soon as my friends from older cohorts started graduating, I very quickly noticed that unless I am willing to relocate and go where the jobs are, my academic job options are somewhere in the range between “none” and “very limited”.  You’re aiming for the Bay Area so your range of options is probably wider than mine, but there were a few things that I thought about which helped me realized that even if I don’t get an academic position, it’s not all lost.

 

(1)    Research not only happens in universities. If you like research, there’s probably someone out there willing to pay you for it. In my case, there are plenty of research institutions associated with my university (where I currently work while I finish my PhD) and I’ll probably end up working full-time for them once I’m done. But that means I’ll also be close to my lab, my advisor and I’ll still be able to do more independent research with them whenever I find the time/need for it.

 

(2)    If teaching is your passion, you can always be an adjunct/sessional instructor without depending on their barely-above-poverty-line wages. I am personally finicky about teaching. I love teaching when my classes are engaged and willing to contribute to the class discussion. I loathe teaching when all I get are blank stares and it’s basically me monologuing my way through 1.5 hours of class twice per week (which happens A LOT when you’re in my area, i.e. teaching statistics/research methods to social science/psychology students). But if you really like teaching having an outside job that “pays the bills” so to speak allows you the flexibility of going into teaching and getting some experience that you can definitely put in your CV if your family situation changes and you’re suddenly free to cast a wider net in terms of a job search.

 

(3)    There’s always time to do whatever you want to do. You (like me) may end up discovering that you actually like doing research outside an academic institution more than in one. It’s weird how we can be sometimes, developing plans and goals and then freaking out about not reaching them. When the realization started sinking in that I may never end up getting a tenure track position I became somewhat depressed and even wanted to quit my PhD. But once I started working where I am now I thought “hey… this is actually better than I expected. I’m doing all the research I want minus having to submit grants, deal with admin, etc. and still getting paid for it!”

 

I do realize this may be a peculiarity of my specialization (data analysis for the social sciences) and other people’s areas of study might not be as flexible as mine.  But the one thing I feel you need to keep in mind is that you have to be flexible. If you restrict it like “I want a teaching-only position that has to be within the Bay area and in my field” then you’re gonna have a much more difficult time finding a job than if you’re willing to give yourself some wiggle room here and there. Remember, we’re all either newly minted PhDs or PhDs-in-the-works in a hurting economy that characterizes itself for high rates of un-/underemployment among people entering the workforce. We need to be more willing to adapt than the people who preceded us if we want to get somewhere. 

[cpk2013]

Your response has been comforting and I can relate to the feeling you had of wanting to quit the PhD (and I began to feel upset about it yesterday before I decided to post on this forum and get some feedback about options). 

I'm trying not to restrict my options other than the location aspect because, as you mentioned, I would be just limiting myself further. If there's any other field I would be qualified to teach or work in, I would jump at that opportunity if it meant I could move to my preferred location.  

As for the research, I would be open to working in a research position and would actively look for open positions when I'm about to enter the job market. I've just been mentally preparing myself to accept that research might take a little longer to find based on the limited institutions that do research in my broader field (other than universities). Even though the location will be far away from my graduate institution, I may ask to work on projects remotely (which will probably be unpaid). Since I have a couple of years, I will keep my eyes open for possible places to teach or research at. Thank you so much for sharing your experience and advice!

 

Well, for personal reasons (my husband’s job and the home we purchased is in the city where I reside) I really had no other option but to stay here for graduate school. And I probably won’t have any other option but to look for a job within the area as well. I agonized a little bit about this situation because I realized that my unmarried friends were a lot freer to move around, do program exchanges in other universities, etc. whereas I had to stay here. And as soon as my friends from older cohorts started graduating, I very quickly noticed that unless I am willing to relocate and go where the jobs are, my academic job options are somewhere in the range between “none” and “very limited”.  You’re aiming for the Bay Area so your range of options is probably wider than mine, but there were a few things that I thought about which helped me realized that even if I don’t get an academic position, it’s not all lost.

 

 

 

(1)    Research not only happens in universities. If you like research, there’s probably someone out there willing to pay you for it. In my case, there are plenty of research institutions associated with my university (where I currently work while I finish my PhD) and I’ll probably end up working full-time for them once I’m done. But that means I’ll also be close to my lab, my advisor and I’ll still be able to do more independent research with them whenever I find the time/need for it.

 

 

 

(2)    If teaching is your passion, you can always be an adjunct/sessional instructor without depending on their barely-above-poverty-line wages. I am personally finicky about teaching. I love teaching when my classes are engaged and willing to contribute to the class discussion. I loathe teaching when all I get are blank stares and it’s basically me monologuing my way through 1.5 hours of class twice per week (which happens A LOT when you’re in my area, i.e. teaching statistics/research methods to social science/psychology students). But if you really like teaching having an outside job that “pays the bills” so to speak allows you the flexibility of going into teaching and getting some experience that you can definitely put in your CV if your family situation changes and you’re suddenly free to cast a wider net in terms of a job search.

 

 

 

(3)    There’s always time to do whatever you want to do. You (like me) may end up discovering that you actually like doing research outside an academic institution more than in one. It’s weird how we can be sometimes, developing plans and goals and then freaking out about not reaching them. When the realization started sinking in that I may never end up getting a tenure track position I became somewhat depressed and even wanted to quit my PhD. But once I started working where I am now I thought “hey… this is actually better than I expected. I’m doing all the research I want minus having to submit grants, deal with admin, etc. and still getting paid for it!”

 

 

 

I do realize this may be a peculiarity of my specialization (data analysis for the social sciences) and other people’s areas of study might not be as flexible as mine.  But the one thing I feel you need to keep in mind is that you have to be flexible. If you restrict it like “I want a teaching-only position that has to be within the Bay area and in my field” then you’re gonna have a much more difficult time finding a job than if you’re willing to give yourself some wiggle room here and there. Remember, we’re all either newly minted PhDs or PhDs-in-the-works in a hurting economy that characterizes itself for high rates of un-/underemployment among people entering the workforce. We need to be more willing to adapt than the people who preceded us if we want to get somewhere. 

 

[juilletmercredi]

Some notes to consider:

-The SF Bay area is one of the most popular places in the country to live - possibly the planet. Yes, there are more universities and colleges, but there are thousands of young PhDs who would give their right arm to have a job there. That makes things harder, even at junior colleges and smaller regional schools. One truism of academia is that even lower-ranked schools in desirable areas can hire much more desirable people than they would've if they were located elsewhere.

-It is theoretically possible for you to get a job ABD, but it's pretty uncommon/rare in fields other than the humanities these days (and is becoming uncommon there, too). Think about it too in relation to point 1: you'll be competing in one of the most competitive markets in the country, in a highly desired city. Most departments would choose to hire someone they don't have to worry about finishing than someone they do. The vast majority of job ads I see in my social sciences field ask that the PhD be in hand by a specific date prior to the start date.

-However, I HAVE witnessed that connections and networking matter in academia just as much as they do anywhere else, even though academics would like to pretend otherwise. I've seen people maneuver their way from postdocs to academic positions in the same general geographic region. This happened a lot in New York, where I went to graduate school - another intensely popular place to live. A lot of my friends from grad school simply did not want to leave NYC, so they took postdocs and research positions all over the city at a bunch of different places. A few did manage to turn that into tenure-track jobs there, but not most. Some left academia so they could stay in the city.

I'm saying this because the ticket might be to look for postdoc or research associate positions in SF at SF-area universities, funded on a grant of some kind. Alternatively, at the very least look to finish first and apply for jobs during your final year (maybe do a run in your second to last year to see who bites).

-You probably need to decide for yourself quite soon which is more important to you: the geographic region or having an academic job? Would you rather work a non-academic job in your desired city or work an academic job somewhere else?

Also, people enter PhD programs for all kinds of reasons and people change their minds all the time. I ended up changing careers after I finished - and I don't regret it for a second. I live in a city I love (so far) and I still do interesting work with great people. So it'll probably work out! Just think about what would actually make you happy both personally and professionally in the long run.