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NEED HELP! Fulbright Foreign Student Nominee - MIS/MID


KhalifehA

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Hello Everyone,

I have been notified of my nomination for the Fulbright Foreign student scholarship to do my masters in the US, and I have ten days to provide them with a list of the schools that I'm interested in. 

The nomination is for a Master's degree in International Affairs/International Development.

The program sponsors up to 4 University applications, but they have very strict criteria for approving my choices before I can start the application process.

Here is where I need your help. I have already done my research, and I have a list in mind, but I could use some insights to try and evaluate my choices before I submit them to the Fulbright HQ in D.C. by October 10th.

Some info about me:

- 24 y.o. guy from Lebanon

- I have two bachelor degrees, one is in Finance (2013) and the other is in Marketing (2014)

- I sat for the renowned CFA charter exams, passed level I but failed level II

- GPA: 3-3.1 (depending on how you convert it because my University uses what is known as a 'French Heading system' and doesn't have GPAs)

- GRE: Quantitative 160, Verbal 155

- TOEFL: 111/120 for the internet-based exam, 670/677 for the paper-based exam

- Work Experience: full-time employed as a loan officer at a boutique bank's main branch in Beirut for the past three years, plus tons of volunteering work in NGOs, Red Cross, and a couple of self-run initiatives

As for the Fulbright criteria for the schools:

- I should pick 1 top school, 1 safe school, and 2 in between

- only one choice can be an 'ivy league level' school (which includes, aside to the ivy leagues, Stanford, MIT, UChicago, UC Berkeley, Northwestern, NYU)

- not more than two choices can be in any of these cities: NYC, DC, LA, Chicago, San Francisco, San Diego, Boston, Miami (they are very serious about geographic diversity)

The initial list I'm considering is:

- Johns Hopkins 

- NYU

- University of Washington

- University of Pittsburgh

Other choices I'm considering:

- Boston University

- UC San Diego

- University of Denver

I'm very hesitant about including an ivy league choice (Columbia or Yale), because if my choices of getting in are extremely slim I prefer to use that option an another more attainable University (remember I can only apply to 4)

Let me know what you guys think. Remember I have till October 10th to sumbit the list.

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Uhh, first off only do one post.

Off the top of my head, I would apply to:

1. Yale (the Jackson school isn't THAT competitive and they'll like that you're a Fulbright from Lebanon; talk about the refugee crisis, Syria, and your contribution to helping things and you should be golden - seriously, this is the top geo-political issue in the world right now and you're right in the middle of it). Yale is an oft-overlooked program, but I think you could thrive there; it's a smaller, more intimate program and they seem to devote lots of time to the students; also, the school has tons of money and resources - always a good thing. You might also consider Georgetown's MSFS program as your top choice; their career services would do a great job of funneling you into internships and getting you in to a decent international NGO. But I would strongly push you toward Yale as your top choice.

2. Fletcher - might be the best school out there for people interested in refugees, humanitarian, and NGO work; they'll almost certainly let you in with a serviceable resume OR Columbia (if the bright lights of NYC call to you) OR SAIS (if DC is appealing). I'm biased toward Fletcher, so would strongly recommend you make that your second choice. 

3. Maybe University of Denver; probably is easier to get in to and the Korbel school is still well-regarded in International Development circles. 

4. Not sure; maybe UC San Diego or Pittsburgh; I've heard decent things about both. West Coast might not be for you if you want to do a Middle East focus. 

Personally, I would skip the UW; Seattle is very far from most international development power centers, the Gates Center notwithstanding (they tend to hire MBA types anyway and like people with Mckinsey type experience), and the Jackson and Evans Schools are very focused on local students and local county types of jobs. Substitute NYU for Columbia/Fletcher if New York is hugely important to you; it's less prestigious and probably easier to get in to. 

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1 hour ago, AAAAAAAA said:

It's pretty competitive. Acceptance rate is around 15-20%, comparable to WWS. Doors at schools with "lots of money and resources" aren't going to be freely open.

 

Maybe chime in with some useful info instead. We're talking about a top choice; nobody said anything about doors being feely opened. 

Anyway, the Jackson school is significantly less competitive than Yale Law or the full-time MBA. 

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4 hours ago, went_away said:

Uhh, first off only do one post.

Off the top of my head, I would apply to:

1. Yale (the Jackson school isn't THAT competitive and they'll like that you're a Fulbright from Lebanon; talk about the refugee crisis, Syria, and your contribution to helping things and you should be golden - seriously, this is the top geo-political issue in the world right now and you're right in the middle of it). Yale is an oft-overlooked program, but I think you could thrive there; it's a smaller, more intimate program and they seem to devote lots of time to the students; also, the school has tons of money and resources - always a good thing. You might also consider Georgetown's MSFS program as your top choice; their career services would do a great job of funneling you into internships and getting you in to a decent international NGO. But I would strongly push you toward Yale as your top choice.

2. Fletcher - might be the best school out there for people interested in refugees, humanitarian, and NGO work; they'll almost certainly let you in with a serviceable resume OR Columbia (if the bright lights of NYC call to you) OR SAIS (if DC is appealing). I'm biased toward Fletcher, so would strongly recommend you make that your second choice. 

3. Maybe University of Denver; probably is easier to get in to and the Korbel school is still well-regarded in International Development circles. 

4. Not sure; maybe UC San Diego or Pittsburgh; I've heard decent things about both. West Coast might not be for you if you want to do a Middle East focus. 

Personally, I would skip the UW; Seattle is very far from most international development power centers, the Gates Center notwithstanding (they tend to hire MBA types anyway and like people with Mckinsey type experience), and the Jackson and Evans Schools are very focused on local students and local county types of jobs. Substitute NYU for Columbia/Fletcher if New York is hugely important to you; it's less prestigious and probably easier to get in to. 

sorry for the second post, that was by mistake.

1. If you think i could make a good case for myself for getting into Yale, i would definitely put it as my first choice. Everything you said about their program is perfectly right. I wasn't considering it at first because i was worried that my chances of getting in are basically nonexistent (considering my GPA  and also my work experience is decent but not exceptional). Also Yale is big name here in the Middle East.

2. Tufts is an exceptional university for sure, but it isn't really that well-known here. Personally i am not that brand-conscious but recruiters here are. My friend went also on a fulbright scholarship to study International Affairs and came back last year, he ended up going to Georgia Tech which is a really good school but virtually unheard of here. It took him a lot of time to find a job, and ended up working as a field officer in some rural area here. I think Johns Hopkins  is much more well-known institution here. I wonder how SAIS ranks in terms whether it's easier or harder to get into compared to Jackson, especially considering my qualifications. As for SIPA, i dont think the fulbright people will accept two ivy leagues on the list, So it could be SIPA or Jackson but not both.

3. I'm hearing a lot of good things about Denver. Although an American girl i met in Beirut this summer who works at Harvard told me that Korbel is very overrated and not as good as people assume. However, I'm wondering if I should make Korbel my safe choice, do you think that that's reasonable? (acceptance rate according to petersons is 88%)

4. UCSD is definitely much more focused on the Asia/Pacific rather than on the Middle East. I was considering it to be honest because It doesn't seem that difficult to get into, and I need to make a list that is as geographically well-distributed as possible (apparently it's a big thing for fulbright). Maybe Pittsburgh is a much more suitable option. 

I'll take your word on UW, but i always thought that Seattle is a better place for an international studies student than Denver. As for NYU, you're right New York is very important to me. Honestly if i get to spend the next two years of my life in NYC, that'll be a dream come true (especially that the scholarship will also cover all my living expenses). But New York doesn't really sink well with the fulbright people; it's also a cost thing because let's say i get accepted to all four of my choices, fulbright will send me to the one that costs the least overall.

Edited by KhalifehA
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Should I maybe broaden the scope of the universities I'm considering. 

- Seton Hall 

- Penn State

- Texas, Austin

- American University

- George Washington

- Syracuse

Should I include any of these in the pool of potential schools I'm considering or should I stick to list we already discussed

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Sorry, double post.

Really hard to give more advice without knowing what you want to do - honestly, you sound a little scattered and unsure about what you want to do professionally and a little too focused on man-on-the-street brand recognition for the schools. If you want to work for an international NGO then the local word on the street brand isn't going to matter all that much. You'll do 1-3 internships during grad school and they should help you break into whatever field you want to go in to (presuming you're being realistic). The more prestigious the school, the better. For International Affairs, Fletcher is far, far better than Georgia Tech and if you want to go into humanitarian work they'll help you do that. Best of luck.

Edit:

SAIS is certainly easier to get into than Yale Jackson. You talk about recruiters in your post, making me think you want to stay in the private sector??? If so, SAIS with a finance concentration or Fletcher's MIB (or the MALD with lots of finance and management courses) would both be a decent choices.

Edited by went_away
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17 hours ago, went_away said:

Maybe chime in with some useful info instead. 

Lol

On 9/26/2016 at 0:50 PM, went_away said:

Your main area of concern is not coming off as an incredibly arrogant know-it-all type, so stay humble

The irony

17 hours ago, went_away said:

Anyway, the Jackson school is significantly less competitive than Yale Law or the full-time MBA. 

Right, of course. But obviously most people wouldn't even dream of going to either of those professional schools. Point being that OP still has to keep in mind of the actual odds. UC Berkeley's undergraduate program is "significantly less competitive" than Harvard. Yet it's still competitive, and putting actual numbers to the average class profile gives OP a sense on what exactly "less competitive" (or "highly competitive") means.

OP, see here: http://jackson.yale.edu/ma-class-profile

15 hours ago, KhalifehA said:

I wonder how SAIS ranks in terms whether it's easier or harder to get into compared to Jackson, especially considering my qualifications.

SAIS's acceptance rate is around 40%. That should be no problem. SIPA's acceptance rate is around 30%, so with a Fulbright, SIPA should be no problem. Keep in mind that schools *really* like Fulbrighters. That's an internationally competitive scholarship.

15 hours ago, KhalifehA said:

As for SIPA, i dont think the fulbright people will accept two ivy leagues on the list, So it could be SIPA or Jackson but not both.

Columbia SIPA and Yale Jackson are two completely different schools. They should be fine with having two ivies. 

And despite went_away's annoyingly snobby tone, I have to agree with him/her: you need to at least have an idea of what you want to do after you graduate. What did you say in your Fulbright essays? There had to have been something you were passionate about to have been nominated. As stated above, the best names aren't going to be the best fit.

S/he gave some examples for the strengths of schools beyond their names, and here's some more: U Chicago for political economy. SAIS also has strong placement under the "strategic studies" concentration (whatever that is) with multilaterals. HKS, really only because of the brand and the network. As went_away named above, you should seriously consider Georgetown SFS since finances aren't an issue. Georgetown, American, and GWU are all good for many students due to their DC location, but Georgetown is probably perceived *very* differently from American/GWU outside of the US government sector. Since you're on Fulbright, international connections matter much more than American's/GWU's US connections.

If you want to broaden the list of schools you're considering, look at Carnegie Mellon Heinz. It's not at all known for international affairs (very strong domestic policy), but when I was applying, it was the only school that took computer science in public policy seriously. No other school allows you take SAS data mining, R analytics, arcGIS, econometrics with STATA, and more all in just one semester, with many more skills-based courses over the two-year program including machine learning. You can learn whatever "international affairs" means on the job, but actual programming is very difficult for anyone to master without formal education in it. And these skills can be applied anywhere--defense policy tracking attacks, development finance, hedge funds, tracking and developing social/urban policy, etc etc.

Even SAIS's "international economics" program (and certainly every other program like Fletcher MiB/MALD, etc.) looks terribly soft compared to CMU Heinz. Theory-based economics is easy. Actually knowing what to do with the numbers, in a dataset of a million observations, is much more difficult. Such material is taught at CMU.

Edited by AAAAAAAA
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Congratulations on your Fulbright nomination, you can be proud of your achievement. A masters in the US represents a huge educational and professional development opp. Following Fulbrights guidelines, have you thought about fit? Based on your academic interests and concentrations at various schools, where would you be comfortable with? Any professors you would like to work with? Incidentally you have not elaborated on this matter.

As went_away indicated, Fletcher is well regarded for Human Rights in the NGO field. SAIS Int Dev is highly regarded as it incorporates economic analysis and quantitative curriculum along with DC links to gov and IOs. SAIS is a larger program and less personal than smaller programs (Yale).

Syracuse is a good school and may be an alternative to Denver (strength: Security) or UCSD.(Asia Pacific and policy analysis).

Good luck

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, AAAAAAAA said:

Lol

The irony

Right, of course. But obviously most people wouldn't even dream of going to either of those professional schools. Point being that OP still has to keep in mind of the actual odds. UC Berkeley's undergraduate program is "significantly less competitive" than Harvard. Yet it's still competitive, and putting actual numbers to the average class profile gives OP a sense on what exactly "less competitive" (or "highly competitive") means.

OP, see here: http://jackson.yale.edu/ma-class-profile

SAIS's acceptance rate is around 40%. That should be no problem. SIPA's acceptance rate is around 30%, so with a Fulbright, SIPA should be no problem. Keep in mind that schools *really* like Fulbrighters. That's an internationally competitive scholarship.

Columbia SIPA and Yale Jackson are two completely different schools. They should be fine with having two ivies. 

And despite went_away's annoyingly snobby tone, I have to agree with him/her: you need to at least have an idea of what you want to do after you graduate. What did you say in your Fulbright essays? There had to have been something you were passionate about to have been nominated. As stated above, the best names aren't going to be the best fit.

S/he gave some examples for the strengths of schools beyond their names, and here's some more: U Chicago for political economy. SAIS also has strong placement under the "strategic studies" concentration (whatever that is) with multilaterals. HKS, really only because of the brand and the network. As went_away named above, you should seriously consider Georgetown SFS since finances aren't an issue. Georgetown, American, and GWU are all good for many students due to their DC location, but Georgetown is probably perceived *very* differently from American/GWU outside of the US government sector. Since you're on Fulbright, international connections matter much more than American's/GWU's US connections.

If you want to broaden the list of schools you're considering, look at Carnegie Mellon Heinz. It's not at all known for international affairs (very strong domestic policy), but when I was applying, it was the only school that took computer science in public policy seriously. No other school allows you take SAS data mining, R analytics, arcGIS, econometrics with STATA, and more all in just one semester, with many more skills-based courses over the two-year program including machine learning. You can learn whatever "international affairs" means on the job, but actual programming is very difficult for anyone to master without formal education in it. And these skills can be applied anywhere--defense policy tracking attacks, development finance, hedge funds, tracking and developing social/urban policy, etc etc.

Even SAIS's "international economics" program (and certainly every other program like Fletcher MiB/MALD, etc.) looks terribly soft compared to CMU Heinz. Theory-based economics is easy. Actually knowing what to do with the numbers, in a dataset of a million observations, is much more difficult. Such material is taught at CMU.

Please stop following me around and flaming me on the boards. It's getting to the point of harassment I do not appreciate it. 

I am happy to help out others looking at schooling as I have done these things already myself. 

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First of all, thank you for your help. i really could use any insights i could get on this. CakeTea thank you very much.

Second, what you all said about me not having clear career objectives is kind of true. This is all happening so fast, i feel overwhelmed and i'm still trying to take it all in. The fulbright program in Lebanon is already running behind schedule (all other countries have already finished the university shortlisting phase), so they are squeezing us in time.

Before considering applying to the fulbright program, i was trying to make a shift from the banking sector, either to consulting (and similar private sector jobs) or international organizations. it wasn't working at all, and after meeting up with a lot of recruiters and head hunters, they told me i have to get a masters degree from a reputable university or else shifting to a different sector is going to be very challenging.  Hence, i applied to the fulbright program.

So when it comes to having an idea about what i want to do after i graduate, i am definitely not considering public sector/government jobs. Humanitarian and NGO work is a serious option i'm considering, but it is not my priority. When it comes to passion, I prefer either to work in UN/International Organizations, or in the private sector (consulting, lobbying, IR-related public relations, analyst, etc.). 

In my fulbright 'study objectives' statement i talked about the youth in Lebanon & the middle east, and how there is a deficit in media (non-state & non-party funded) that appeals to the youth and that plays a part in creating a well-founded public opinion. i also talked about creating and funding initiatives for students and young adults that eases the tensions in the country and helps people understand each other and come together. You have no idea how difficult life is becoming here. I am 24 y.o. and I've lived through a couple of israeli wars, my family and i got displaced, ISIS is a two-hour drive away, bombings are happening every other month in Beirut, there are as many refugees as there are locals in lebanon, the community is literally boiling under social and demographic tensions. 

so getting nominated by the fulbright program is a breath of relief and i want to make the most out of it. So I have to guarantee to at least get one university acceptance to continue on with the program or else i lose the funding (i cant defer it to the next deadline or re-apply again if i get rejected). 

so as TK2 mentioned, i have very strict criteria for the list i choose. i cannot pick more than one top school, and the fulbright people are being very vague when it comes to what counts as 'top'. and i have to have at least one safe choice where i am guaranteed to get in. and two choices that are in between. also 2 out of the 4 schools have to be outside the popular cities (NY, DC, LA, etc.). 

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@KhalifehA: I wish to add two issues. 

Career Office support for internationals. This is an important issue for you to address as you may need internship and first job post graduation. This is relevant for you as career changer. Normally, international alumni can give the best and most reliable feedback. Some programs post even first job, position and organisation. Some IR programs send a higher percentage of its class to private sector (SAIS: 41%).

With regards to suitable programs, have you spoken to other Fulbright alumni from Lebanon? Where did they apply and can you see a pattern?

I remember that for media and foreign policy program, Georgetown is highly regarded. Some successful applicant with a journalism background in foreign affairs was admitted to Georgetown with generous funding. Within IR, Georgetown is regarded as top 5 program (HKS, WWS, SIPA,SAIS, GT). Don't know if Fulbright sees Georgetown as top or Ivy level.

A good school outside popular cities: Duke Sanford MA International Development Policy, small program, good balance/flexibility, academic rigour and attracts strong candidates (GPA,GRE and work). The MIDP is specialised.

 

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4 hours ago, CakeTea said:

 

With regards to suitable programs, have you spoken to other Fulbright alumni from Lebanon? Where did they apply and can you see a pattern?

I only know one guy who studied international relations from the Fulbright alumni.

His initial list was:

- Columbia

- UChicago

- Georgetown

- Georgia Tech

They told him that he cannot have three of his options be in popular cities, and that he had to replace one of them with a safe school. So he dropped UChicago (because according to him the application was very long and he didn't have enough time) and picked Seton Hall instead, to be also his safe choice. He wanted to pick AU as his safe choice, but they didn't approve of having two schools in the same city.

He got accepted to all of them. He was a fresh grad from a top school here in Beirut with a BA in marketing and a 3.9 GPA.

Georgia Tech gave him a full scholarship. So Fulbright ended up sending him there. He had some trouble finding a job at first, like I mentioned in a previous post.

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Okay so basically how the Fulbright program works (or atleast the one in Lebanon) is that it covers all your expenses including tuition, books, accommodation, living expenses, insurance, traveling tickets, etc.

However, they encourage you to pursue some sort of assistantship/fellowship/scholarship from the universities you are applying to. This way the money they save on you ends up  funding another student's graduate studies, and this actually happens more than you think. This way for example instead of sending the usual 10 nominees, they can can send 14-15 nominees.

A few years ago, a fulbright nominee from Lebanon got a full ride from MIT, they literally covered everything including his travel ticket to the US, but he still went under the title of 'Fulbright' even though he cost the program zero dollars.

A lot of the Fulbright alumni told me that cost is a huge factor on deciding whom to send to the US, they told me that if your preferred University's tuition is $50.000+ a year, don't dream of Fulbright approving your scholarship without some sort of discount from the university itself.

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Cool, only I'd have assumed universities themselves would be canny about this sort of thing - since applicants will say when applying that they're Fulbright, the university will be stingy with funding, since they know they're covered. Or is approval of the scholarship after acceptance still conditional? 

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approval of the scholarship is not final until all acceptance results for all students from all schools come out. 

So you have to wait till the results are out and have at least one University acceptance before you can receive a confirmation on the scholarship, and turn from a nominee to a grantee. 

Technically, what usually happens is that (again this is for the Lebanon program) all nominees who get a University acceptance receive a confirmation on the scholarship without exception. 

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I think you are on the right track with your shortlist. I agree with your top choices though I may not favour NYU & Uni of Washington due to my fit. I checked on the Fulbright website in my country and most students pick the usual top 10 programs. A few applicants attended a safety school on your list over the years. Syracuse, American, Denver, UCSD, UT Austin, TAMU, Pitt. GA Tech is a good uni, but the MA Int Relations is not as strong as the aforementioned.

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  • 2 weeks later...

ok so i had a meeting with my adviser from Fulbright HQ to discuss my universities placement choices. i presented her with the following list:

1- Yale Jackson

2- JHU SAIS

3- U of Pittsburgh GSPIA

4- U of Denver Korbel

she agreed to choices 3 and 4, but had a problem with 1 and 2. I made a good argument for Jackson, so she agreed to keep Yale on the list. But said that i can't keep JHU and Yale together on the list. She cited issues regarding having more than one "prestigious university", that both schools are expensive, and that my list will not be 'geographically distributed' well enough. 

She asked me to consider other schools, and specifically named Georgia Tech, Penn State, UW, Syracuse. 

After an almost an hour of negotiating, she agreed to keep option 2 for a DC school but asked me to consider AU and GWU instead of JHU, and we agreed to pick this up next week.

so what do you think guys? any suggestions or advice? i don't have to stick to a DC school, i can still pick something else.

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1 hour ago, KhalifehA said:

ok so i had a meeting with my adviser from Fulbright HQ to discuss my universities placement choices. i presented her with the following list:

1- Yale Jackson

2- JHU SAIS

3- U of Pittsburgh GSPIA

4- U of Denver Korbel

she agreed to choices 3 and 4, but had a problem with 1 and 2. I made a good argument for Jackson, so she agreed to keep Yale on the list. But said that i can't keep JHU and Yale together on the list. She cited issues regarding having more than one "prestigious university", that both schools are expensive, and that my list will not be 'geographically distributed' well enough. 

She asked me to consider other schools, and specifically named Georgia Tech, Penn State, UW, Syracuse. 

After an almost an hour of negotiating, she agreed to keep option 2 for a DC school but asked me to consider AU and GWU instead of JHU, and we agreed to pick this up next week.

so what do you think guys? any suggestions or advice? i don't have to stick to a DC school, i can still pick something else.

Rather odd advice. If they're so hung up on 'prestigious' schools, I would submit the following list. 

1- JHU SAIS 

2- U of Denver Korbel

3- Syracuse 

4- U of Pittsburgh GSPIA

 

Substitute Yale for SAIS if you are feeling very confident in the competitiveness of your profile. 

 

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How peculiar of Fulbright to allow only one prestigious programme. I think you represented your position well and it is a matter of negotiation. To be fair, SAIS is a top programme for International Relations/Dev. 

Imho, out of her four (Georgia Tech, Penn State, UW, Syracuse), I would favour Syracuse for depth. Do you prefer GWU or AU?

 

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If I were you I'd be very annoyed to be so limited in my choices. Basically they're forcing you to apply to schools that don't even interest you so you could end up studying somewhere you only sort of like for the sake of being a scholar and who knows, maybe one of the more prestigious universities could give you a hefty scholarship so you wouldn't need the fullbright money? Is it possible for you to apply to other schools simultaneously and if you get a better offer reject the fullbright scholarship? 

On 9/30/2016 at 4:22 AM, KhalifehA said:

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, Ella16 said:

If I were you I'd be very annoyed to be so limited in my choices. Basically they're forcing you to apply to schools that don't even interest you so you could end up studying somewhere you only sort of like for the sake of being a scholar and who knows, maybe one of the more prestigious universities could give you a hefty scholarship so you wouldn't need the fullbright money? Is it possible for you to apply to other schools simultaneously and if you get a better offer reject the fullbright scholarship? 

 

I know it's very frustrating. And to make it even more frustrating, beyond this point in the application process I no longer have a say in where I go.

So when the acceptances start coming in, Fulbright have the final and only say in where I get to enroll. So even if they greenlight my application to SAIS, and I get accepted there, there is a big chance Fulbright will refuse to enroll me there. DC has a high concentration of Fulbright scholars, and JHU is an expensive school. So they will definitely be less inclined to send me there, as compared to Denver or Pitt.

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