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LotzaCoffee

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  • Location
    Fort Collins, CO
  • Application Season
    2015 Fall
  • Program
    Hebrew Bible/OT

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  1. To clarify a bit, I should make the distinction between going into debt for a M* vs. paying (or partially paying) for an M* degree. This is just for me personally - but I didn't want to go into debt for a M* degree in the humanities, and then have to carry that debt into a multi-year PhD programme just watching the interest balloon the whole time. I did not receive full funding for my MA (which is a rare animal indeed), but was able to work while completing the degree and thus did not end up owing anything for it. It might be different for those students that get a ministerial degree like an M.Div with a job prospect lined up afterwards; it may be worth it to accumulate some debt in order to become a minister, etc. and enter their chosen profession in their case. I'm sure the argument could be successfully made that a modest amt. of debt for an MA in religious studies or related field, as a step towards the PhD, is a worthy "future investment" in oneself, I was just stating my personal conviction and one which has been expressed to me by those who have now come out the other side with PhD in hand.
  2. @tsgriffey, First, congrats on the Oxford admission! Well done. sacklunch's posts are most definitely spot-on here. The school name by itself just isn't the commodity it used to be. I have one friend who graduated with a M* ministry degree at HDS who is doing very well as a pastor in a church, and some former graduates of my (confessional) MA institution that have gone on to get PhDs in the UK who then were able to secure tenure-track positions here in the US and Canada. So, it *does* happen. But...I've known just as many, who have graduated with their PhDs in theology/biblical studies/etc. from Ivy League schools, even with the "right" advisors and the "right" dissertation topics and the "right" publications and conference presentations (you get the drift), who now rotate from one visiting professorship to the next, moving each year across the country hoping for that ever elusive tenure track entry. My biggest takeaway from looking into this question for myself...don't go into debt for a M* or PhD. Be comfortable with the roll of the dice that this profession truly is in the modern job market, certainly in academia. Outside of academia, by and large, sackluch is again spot-on. No one cares about the degree or where you got it from, unless it helps you help them. Life is full of decisions. This is just one of them.
  3. sacklunch, Those are good links - I'd seen the first one but not the others. There is also the most recent SBL report. Unfortunately, it doesn't really go into depth with the contingent faculty issue the way the AAUP report does. http://sbl-site.org/assets/pdfs/AY13-14jobsReport.pdf I'm curious - given the struggles of your fellow classmates now out on the job market, what is your motivation to remain in the field? Are you hopeful of beating those odds, or are these dire statistics and observations compelling you to think of a path alternative to academia?
  4. tsgriffey, Your questions are pertinent ones, and good questions to be asking at this stage (I see that you are in the midst of an application season yourself). You've probably already seen the very well-known blog posts, and articles in the Chronicle of Higher Education online, arguing the issue from multiple angles. So let me address your comments from the perspective of someone who has been working as a Civil Engineer while also pursuing an MA in Biblical Studies/OT and now applying to PhD programmes in the same field (OT). It pays to go into the PhD route in the Humanities with eyes wide open, knowing the potential risks and the difficulties of the job market. Know that skill and knowledge and determination will only get you halfway; the other half is blind luck (providence?) and who you happen to meet at SBL that liked your tie/haircut/joke you told. But no field of work/study is immune to the vagaries of the working world. In 2009 and 2010, even well-respected and well-paid civil engineers were being laid off on a daily basis, and *no one* was hiring. Friends of mine had a job Monday morning, and were looking for work Monday afternoon. My father, who was a mechanical engineer for almost 25 years, "aged out" of his job (i.e. laid off) and never did find another despite repeated efforts; he now has started his own business as an entrepreneur...in the humanities. As I have searched for my own answers to the same questions you pose, I have come to understand that it must be a personal decision to accept the risks and take the jump into the unknown. I want the chance to teach Old Testament, Hebrew, theology, and the wisdom of life to those that want to learn such things. I can't do that as an engineer, at least on a consistent basis. I have decided it is worth the risk to try, and to take a huge adjustment in lifestyle and income as part of the consequence of that decision. If I end up eating out of a dumpster broke and on the street because I can't get a tenure-track job, I'll know that I tried and went into the process with eyes open. And I'm only kind of joking about the dumpster thing. Know the placement rates of the institutions you're applying to (esp. if you're going for a PhD). If they don't publish those numbers, keep asking. Find out specific names of past graduates that actually have jobs, then call them or email them. Ask them if they're adjuncting, if they're tenure track, what % of time they teach (if that's what you really want to be doing). The odds aren't great, but people DO get hired, and many of them love what they do.
  5. xypathos and Abdelazar, I'm starting to get a sense for just how common the boxer strategy is. Methinks I've been plotting my strategy all wrong until now...
  6. Kuriakos, Don't think this strategy didn't occur to me. I just couldn't decide on striped or rubber ducky patterned boxers. So, trousers it is.
  7. Hi friends, I was contacted by a potential POI for a PhD programme, and we have arranged a Skype conversation for next week. (If accepted, I would begin this coming Fall.) I've been on my share of professional and academic interviews in-person or over the phone, but this is the first time I've ever had such a thing over Skype. Thought I would throw it out to everyone if they had any experience with these things, and what went right/what went wrong in your experience? Did you prepare any differently than an in-person interview?
  8. You've identified a foundational "truth" about the length of time required for advanced studies. I did my MS in Civil Engineering a few years back, and my colleagues that went on for PhD work in Civil Engineering took an average of 3 years, I'd estimate, start to finish, including course work and dissertation. I'm now finishing up my MA in Hebrew Bible/OT, and I can vouch for the difference in research methodologies and background knowledge required to complete a successful thesis or dissertation in the sciences/engineering vs. HB. It's not that one field is "harder" than the other; it's primarily a dramatic difference in research methodologies and the large amount of background knowledge required (i.e. ancient and modern languages) for HB that simply isn't a requirement in science or engineering.
  9. sacklunch, Thanks for the insights and clarification. I was going mainly off of my experience of applying to TT PhD programs this past Fall in Bibl Studies/OT, and had noticed that some of the programs did accept students straight from their undergraduate programs, with the understanding that they would obtain their MA or equivalent on the way to the terminal degree. However, as you rightly mention, there is still the issue of obtaining the additional requirements, i.e. languages, which a student coming straight out of undergrad would not likely have attained.
  10. Aberdeen is a very respected institution among top faculty in the US, so I wouldn't think that it would be an issue getting your M* there and then applying for US PhD programs. It will really depend on the specific PhD program you're looking at down the road, as well as the graduate school's specific requirements. For example, many PhD programs will accept applicants straight out of their BA degree, while others (incl. some top tier schools) will require an M* degree before application. You may wish to contact a couple potential PhD programs and float the question by them, even though your actual application season may be a few years away.
  11. I would agree, studying multiple ancient languages concurrently is not uncommon, at least at the introductory levels. The only exception that I can think of might be if one of the classes requires lengthy time-intensive translations as part of the coursework, but even then, should be manageable.
  12. ResidentAlien, I enjoyed your response While I truly do believe that a ministry job should be a calling, as trinitymatthew expressed above, I also do concede that it is an avenue of employment with a lengthy (and yes, occasionally, arbitrary) checklist for its applicants sometimes on par with the academic world.
  13. xypathos and trinitymatthew, you've given me some valuable insights - going off of your comments, perhaps being in the pastorate/priesthood with a PhD is not such "out of the box" thinking as I had first believed! trinitymatthew, you raise a good caution about the ordination process. I wouldn't want to give the impression that I would enter the pastorate simply as a "back up" plan to an academic career - I agree that this would not be a move of integrity. My ambition all along has been to teach the wonderful things that I have been learning, and as I finish my MA I have come to recognize that research, though enjoyable and fulfilling in its own way, cannot compare to the joy of teaching. Your advice about spacing out the ordination process and a PhD programme is well-timed for me, and something additional to consider.
  14. Hi all, Still considering re-applying to PhD programs in OT/Bibl Studies after an unsuccessful application season for '14. Which has, consequently, continued to stoke a question within me that I'd like some of your feedback on. I've known a few (very intelligent) individuals to move into a pastoral/ministry role after obtaining their PhD degree in OT, NT, or Theology. I of course realize that there are other terminal degrees besides an academic PhD that would be more traditionally expected for those individuals intending to enter ministry. However, at least in some circles there seems to be an appreciation for a pastor with an advanced academic degree. This, in addition to the absurd job market for religion PhDs (and of course humanities in general), makes me wonder just how many folks out there have contemplated this approach as opposed to a more traditional academic route?
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