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Hey combronatorics, thanks for the reply! Yes, UPenn Wharton has an Operations, IS, & Decisions program. I am also applying to Columbia Business and NYU Stern (OM though, not IS), idk why i didnt put them on my list. UPenn is 1 hour by amtrak. Boston is 4. Thanks for the GRE help. I am not taking it again, although a ~500 verbal is no help.

Hey, thanks for the reply! Given my math background, the only true interests I have are in Operations Research/Stochastic Processes/Applied Probability. A lot of my interest area involves queueing theory and optimization probabilities, which has a nice link to microeconomics, so I figured I would apply to those programs also and see what happens. Basically, my whole life is in NYC. Girlfriend, friends, family, living.. so I have revolved my search around NYC, only including schools I would like to attend that are a train ride away. I would love to apply to the aforementioned programs, but I am not willing to leave NYC, especially for 4-6 years. As I have said, I like queueing theory and its ties to profit loss probabilities and optimization of better networks/systems of businesses. I think my main weaknesses are my undergrad grades (although I have made up the important ones) and my attended institutions. I tend to see a lot of international students and domestic students from Ivy's, which doesn't settle nicely I am hoping I have made up for that through my graduate work and research and math professor experience. I also have no true finance/economics background outside of those subjects that are found in math (stochastic, prob, will be taking operations research & continuous time finance during spring, and microeconomics during this winter most likely, but committees wont see those grades unfortunately). I appreciate the reply, if you have any advice, feel free to let me know! (reply or PM, whichever would be great!) Thanks

Hi all! I posted here last semester while I was still in my master's but I have finished and would like an opinion.. Basically I am applying to - Columbia Stat Columbia Operations Research Yale Stat Rutgers Stat Rutgers Econ Rutgers Operations Research Stony Brook Applied Math Stony Brook Econ Princeton Operations Research UPenn Operations Research As you can see, my main area of research is economics & statistics. My extended profile: [sUNY Bing] B.A. in Math (Graduated with a 3.1 GPA. Got 4 C's. Two of them were pretty serious foundations, so I re-took them and got an A in both.) [sUNY Bing] M.A.T. in Math & Math Education (Did ind. study in psychological methods of math foundations, conceptual retention methods, and methodology of teaching math) Graduated with a 3.65 (3 grad classes - Stat & Prob (A), Topics in Higher Geometry (A), Number Theory ( ) A lot of professors say that having a degree/experience in teaching is an asset in a PhD program. [sUNY Buff] M.A. in Math (Concentration in Statistics, mainly stochastic processes & probability. GPA 3.7, Concentration GPA 3.95. Master's Thesis titled "Economic Forecasting Using Stochastic and Poisson Processes". Courses were: Comp Physics ( , Applied Math w/ Presentation on Brownian Motion ( , Math Physics (B+), Real Analysis (A-), Probability (A), Cryptography/Applied Number Theory(A), Stochastic Processes(A), Abstract Algebra (A) ). Will be taking Operations Research and Continuous Time Financial Math in Spring 2013 and Economics during Winter 2012. Currently, while applying to PhDs, I am an Assistant Professor of Mathematics at a SUNY 4-Year State College. My LoR are all from three professors, including my probability professor (also thesis advisor), abs alg professor, and cryptography professor. All A's, all top rank in classes. In Prob, I was rank 1 of 20 grad students. In Crypt, #2 and Abs Alg #2 also I believe but I think he is saying Top 5% or Top 10%. Either way, they all assure me they are giving me stellar letters. I took GRE and got 800/510 Q/V, but I am re-taking it in a month. I am sure I will still get a top Q, and hopefully improve my V by a lot. I am taking the Math Subject Test - I have been getting ~850/80th percentile, so if I am around there, I will submit. If I bomb, I will not. I am not asking for a percentage of getting into these programs, just curious if I have a chance/if I am competitive. Thank you!

Hi all! I posted here last semester while I was still in my master's but I have finished and would like an opinion.. Basically I am applying to - Columbia Stat Yale Stat Rutgers Stat Rutgers Econ Rutgers Operations Research Stony Brook Applied Math Stony Brook Econ Princeton Operations Research UPenn Operations Research As you can see, my main area of research is economics & statistics. My extended profile: [sUNY Bing] B.A. in Math (Graduated with a 3.1 GPA. Got 4 C's. Two of them were pretty serious foundations, so I re-took them and got an A in both.) [sUNY Bing] M.A.T. in Math & Math Education (Did ind. study in psychological methods of math foundations, conceptual retention methods, and methodology of teaching math) Graduated with a 3.65 (3 grad classes - Stat & Prob (A), Topics in Higher Geometry (A), Number Theory ( ) A lot of professors say that having a degree/experience in teaching is an asset in a PhD program. [sUNY Buff] M.A. in Math (Concentration in Statistics, mainly stochastic processes & probability. GPA 3.7, Concentration GPA 3.95. Master's Thesis titled "Economic Forecasting Using Stochastic and Poisson Processes". Courses were: Comp Physics (, Applied Math w/ Presentation on Brownian Motion (, Math Physics (B+), Real Analysis (A-), Probability (A), Cryptography/Applied Number Theory(A), Stochastic Processes(A), Abstract Algebra (A) ) Currently, while applying to PhDs, I am an Assistant Professor of Mathematics at a SUNY 4-Year State College. I may also have a CUNY position, but probably won't be finalized by the time I apply. I teach PreCalc, Trig, and Calc. I will most likely be applying to one Econ PhD, which is NYU Economics. I don't have a solid Econ background, but most of my applied work, especially during my MA, was in econometrics/stochastic forecasting. I feel as though graduate probability/stochastic processes is much more important than easily-made-up econ undergrad courses. My LoR are all from three professors, including my probability professor (also thesis advisor), abs alg professor, and cryptography professor. All A's, all top rank in classes. In Prob, I was rank 1 of 20 grad students. In Crypt, #2 and Abs Alg #2 also I believe but I think he is saying Top 5% or Top 10%. Either way, they all assure me they are giving me stellar letters. I took GRE and got 800/510 Q/V, but I am re-taking it in a month. I am sure I will still get a top Q, and hopefully improve my V by a lot. Not taking GRE Subject, no programs I am applying to ask for it. I am not asking for a percentage of getting into NYU Econ, I am just curious if my application is even competitive given my quasi-messed-up undergrad and non-Ivy schools, as well as lack of formal publication, etc.. Any other opinions on different programs I am applying to, feel free! Thank you!

Still seems kind of odd .. I have not seen many pure math departments that have probability as a research area. Actually, I have only seen two. NYU is one of them. Most schools have an applied math department or statistics department. Some have all three (i.e. Columbia, where probability will be found in their statistics departments). It really depends what kind of probability you want to study. Some places have probability (pure), and some have applied probability(applied), and some have statistical mechanics (physics), and some have statistics astrophysics (astronomy), and probability will fit into even more categories. The last two I doubt you will fit into, but probability is hidden in a lot of different research areas. Just take this warning: CyberWulf has stated it already, but Pure Math programs are extremely competitive, way beyond that of applied math or stats imo. I know people with (no offense) way better apps that have gotten rejected from schools ranked ~20 in pure math. I think what you are doing is smart .. find literally as many departments in the top 40 that you would want to go to, and apply. I am sure you will make a program you will be happy with. Good luck Hope anything I have said helps at all lol

I don't understand what you are asking for .. Your application seems to be about as strong as they get. Apply to every top 20 school you have an interest in attending (for faculty, research, etc) and go to the best suited one that you make. You seem to already have that plan according to your list, so you are on top of your game. Odd that you left out Harvard, thats usually on every list haha Only one biostat department after all that biomathematics work?

First off, GRE is apparently just an "okay good enough" or "not high enough" cutoff type of deal. I think 780 is fine, and will be viewed just as apathetically positive as an 800. I love probability and I have a concentration in it, and I am applying to do my research in applied probability as well. You come from a top 10 public school .. your letters seem solid .. your verbal is a little weak but I doubt that will change any decisions .. your grades seem on par for a nice program. You say a 3.76 isn't "the best", but considering your research and undergraduate college prestige, it seems pretty high up there. Some questions I might ask: You are applying to do work in probability - which is usually part of a statistics department as far as ive seen, or applied math - so why are you telling us that you have take high level pure math courses (analysis, topology) What programs were you thinking of applying to? Pure math departments, applied math departments, or stats departments? (some schools have all three in one dept, i.e. cuny gc for example). Are you applying to any of those? I don't know why you are putting yourself down, you seem to have everything that a good department would look for (outside of your unknown math subject grade of course). The news that everyone throws around is "cast a wide net", which I would do. I think top 40 is safe, you will get into a 40th program. But I wouldn't shy away from top 20 at all. You seem to have a strong application. NYU applied math is ranked #1 in the country, so don't get your hopes up, but don't not apply. Go for it. Its like $100 compared to wondering for the rest of your life what could've been If you have no location necessities, find all the programs that you think you would enjoy attending and do it.

I just went to three random schools (one top 10, one ~20 rank, one ~30 rank) and looked at 35 stats grad student pages. EVERY one of them has a mathematical degree (two of them have dual majors, one paired with physics, one with economics). Given that there may exist a student at a top 20 university with a double major in two non-related fields, it doesn't seem like they are very pronounced. And yes, I mean "doesnt have a lot of mathematical coursework". I suppose research and math gre are separate and could be missing, but we are talking top 20 here. I don't find it very reasonable (i am sure it is possible, though) to say you can make a top 20 program with neither of these when everyone applying has them. Yes, stats courses are not looked for. But, this is a PhD. This isn't a small commitment. I think that seeing experience and good grades at the graduate level is something (like research & math gre) that will separate you from the pack. And yes, as I asked, your school and LOR are important. That being said, I do think his application does lack a lot of what a good application will have. I don't really see how you could deny that, he doesn't have a degree in a math-intensive science. Doesn't have research, test scores, etc.. I am not trying to put him down or defend myself, people are more than welcome to have different opinions. You see him as top 20, I think that would be a stretch. I think if you stay in Biostats you have a much better shot at a better ranked school and a better department.

I've been researching stats/applied math for a while now, and I have yet to see someone in ANY level of program without a serious degree in math or physics (outside of biomath, where they usually have your background plus a degree in math). Your philosophy degree is useless in terms of math, and really your biology is as well, unless you've taken biomathematics or advanced math/sciences courses like p.chem, which won't get you far either way. Your applied math minor is great, and your GPA is great, but you also have to figure in: You are applying against people with a bachelor's and master's in math/applied math/stats. You may have the core classes but you are still underprepared. Other big questions: How is your school ranked? Is it in the US? Are you male or female? Have you done research or written any research papers? Applying to top 25 programs without the Math Subject GRE is suicide (Despite them only "recommending" it) .. have you taken that? If so, how did you do? How are your Letters of Recommendation? Have you taken any real statistics courses? (Stochastic, Applied Prob, Game, Combinatorics, etc.) I could be wrong of course, and I wouldn't doubt it at all, so take this with a grain of salt, but.. I really don't think your application is very strong for statistics/applied math unless it is bio related or you have perfect answers to all the questions I asked..

Again, I don't know how far my advice goes, I am myself (to no avail) asking for PhD advice. I would take what I say with a grain of salt, but I will attempt advice given what I have read/seen. US News is the generic place to get grad rankings. Yet, those are for overall departments. For example, just looking at "math" will set NYU as #10, whereas if you choose the specialization "applied math", they are #1. Unfortunately, statistics is one of the few categories that does not have the subcategory option. US News puts Columbia at #22 for stats and #32 for biostats (they put stats and biostats departments together when they rank). Yet, NRC ranks them anywhere from #9-#22 for scholarly rank and #9-#30 for faculty rank. Google "NRC statistics rankings" and read their S-Rank and R-Rank for description. So, from these numbers, I don't see how Columbia could be top 5, but again, I could be wrong. I may have a greater breadth of stats, but when you go into a PhD program, the coursework at the beginning will introduce you to a lot of things and may even change what you are interested in researching. In math, I have a specific research interest, but my #1 program is Astrophysics if I make my dream program, so it is not crazy to think that students have a wide variety of things that spark their interest and passion. To answer your questions: 1. Honestly, again, I don't see how your LORs believe that quitting a PhD program won't hurt you. I think that will be a huge setback, as will your degrees in econ, not really math(I know you have a dual major, just sayign). Your grades are good though. I would stick with wine_in_coffe_cup's advice and cast a really wide net. If Columbia is a program you'd like, then that should be in there, but maybe a big reach school. If you don't care about location, then just apply to a lot of schools that you think you would fit well with. If I didn't care about staying in NYC, I would be applying to like 50 schools. But I do, so I am only applying to like 4 or 5. 2. Programs REALLY seem to hate PhD students that want to transfer. I would definitely not talk about wanting to transfer. Ever. The school you go to and their faculty put a lot of money and teaching responsibility into you coming out with a PhD. They don't want students leaving (affects their stats), and they don't want to waste years of funding for nothing. Also, the "better school" you would want to apply to would probably prefer new students that they can mold and start fresh with. I don't think this plan is good at all. 3. I don't know much about this, I am all academia. Yet, it seems the private sector always needs statisticians. Yet, it also seems like the school you went to is much more important there. Look, I am not trying to teach at Harvard or Yale. I am trying to graduate and join a good math/physics department, do some research, and concentrate on teaching students. Therefore, going to a rank 20 or 30 school is fine for me. Yet, in the private sector, they pay big bucks for top names. They don't really pay average bucks for average schools to my knowledge. They need their people to be perfect, and with that comes top schools. Just my opinion. Look at alumni out of rank 50 schools and rank 5 schools and you will see the difference. 4. ETS has a new policy that you can pick and choose the tests you submit to each school. Therefore, taking the subject test has no possible bad side effects. Yet, reporting it is a different story. I would only take & report it if you do REALLY well. Doing average or slightly above average doesn't do much. I will leave the school name and program out, but it is a very top program in a physical science. Their advice on the Math Subject GRE was this: "We don't require a GRE subject test, but suggest it is useful if you think you'd get a really high score on it, which would enhance your application." I tend to agree with that. If you do really well, its worth it. If not, I personally would not. People that I have encountered seem to put the regular GRE as more of a qualification to be considered than a judging point, AKA over X and you go on in the process, under X and you don't. The GRE Subject Test is probably similar. It doesn't test you on your research interest, it tests you on very undergraduate knowledge. I would say LOR, combination of degrees & GPA, research/papers, and overall experience weigh much higher. As a side note: Keep in mind that although Columbia might be #9-22, they are also the first ranked NYC school. People really want to be in NYC. Therefore, I am sure they get some serious competitors (such as top 5 types). Plus the name is amazing in general. Therefore, I tend to treat it around a top 10 program. I am sure they are better at some specialties and worse at others. Also, NYU Stern has a PhD in stats that is not even ranked. Yet, they take 1-2 of 100+ applicants and is apparently impossible to get into. I don't know why they are not ranked. Also you said: I'm pessimistic about my ability to convince an admissions committee of the same. That is the point. It is not your passion or desire to do well, or that anyone is saying you can't do it. It is that admissions committees see SO many applications, and to try to justify quitting an econ PhD and transferring to a stats PhD with a light background in stats is going to be VERY difficult. Again, thats just my opinion. I am going to attempt to explain a C or two, and I think even something like that will disqualify me from the beginning for some programs lol

Thanks for your response. Yes, I was talking about NYU Physics program. I have contacted NYU Physics Department and they seemed excited to get an application from someone who has experience and education pertaining to teaching math/physics at the college level. They said expertise and interest in teaching is highly valued. I also asked about the PGRE and haven't gotten that reply yet, so I don't know how much that will hurt my application. E-mails from departments are often very apathetic, and haven't really given me much besides relevant information, never admissions probabilities. I figured people would have an opinion if this was a reachable astro program. Congrats on starting Caltech, that's awesome.

You took the time to answer and said that? This is about a physics phd program. Math people don't know physics PhD programs, physics people do. Anyone have something useful to say?

I don't know how far my opinion would really go. Let's just say I had a slightly weaker undergrad, made up most of my bad grades. Then got two master's and did great in them, great LOR, 3.95 concentration GPA, stochastic/poisson process thesis applied to economics. I have a perfect QGRE score/160ish Verbal. If you are "considering" your LOR, i don't see how they could be very good. You did relatively well in school grade-wise, but you also got a D-, which is like unheard of. I didn't even know schools actually gave that, thought it was a myth. Also, I don't see many grad courses, especially in stats-related department. You have 6 classes, 5 if you don't count the D one. A lot of them show incomplete, and you will have to address why you gave up during a PhD. I've seen it first hand - committees don't like giving second chances to people. You do not have A LOT of the major math concept classes: stochastic processes, applied probability, queueing theory, operations research.. You may think you are well prepared for stats but people like me have 3 degrees in math/stats, and I am not even that strong of an applicant. Given that info - I know I am applying to PhD programs in the 15-35 range. Columbia Stat and Rutgers Stat, along with Stony Brook Applied Math (Operations Research or Financial Math track). I believe that my application has a lot that yours doesn't - strong LOR from professors in the stats world, way more math/stat breadth. And although you may say that you have economics background also, many economics (most) will really go to waste .. economic theory classes (macro, micro, etc) will be useless compared to core stats classes (stochastic, probability). Also, I have experience teaching at a SUNY school as a mathematics professor right now while I am applying. One of my master's also has a dual concentration in mathematical teaching methods. I can only really help you by comparing you to me. I am in the 15-35 range, and I believe you should stick to that range too. I don't think you (or me for that matter) will make a top 20 like Columbia or Stern Statistics. I honestly don't see too much for you .. but that's just me. I don't think quitting a PhD program will look good at all, and I don't think you have too much experience with serious mathematics. Again, I don't know how much my advice should count..

22 views .. no opinions? I'd say bump but I am still at the top of the forum list..

Hi all, So, I am an american mathematics guy and I am applying to PhD programs near NYC. I have a B.A. in Math from a medium public school, pretty good overall reputation but nothing crazy.. GPA 3.1 with 4 C's. Two of those C's I made up over the summer and got an A in both. I did some independent study but nothing big. I have an M.A.T. in Math & Math Education from same school as undergrad. GPA 3.65. Did plenty of independent study in educational psychology linked to mathematical teaching methods. Also took three grad math classes. Two A and one B. The main advantage here would be my enjoyment for teaching. Schools need their PhDs to teach, so having a student that has a strong teaching background is definitely a plus. NYU Astro chair said a strong interest in teaching is very advantageous. I have an M.A. in Math from large public school, pretty good math department, ranked ~50. GPA 3.7. Concentration in Probability & Stochastic Processes, and Pure Math. Concentration GPA 3.95. I also have a thesis that I did during this masters titled "Economic Forecasting Using Stochastic and Poisson Processes." I still need to take the GRE but last time I took it I got 800Q/600V. I am assuming this time I will still get perfect math, verbal should hopefully increase. My letters of recommendations are from my thesis advisor & probability professor (I ranked #1 of 70 in her grad probability class), my cryptography professor (I ranked #2 of 15), and abstract algebra professor (I ranked about #2 of 15). They are all really great professors, really nice, and I enjoyed having them. I think they will reflect nicely and accurately on my passion for math and teaching it. I do not have the time to take the math or physics subject test, and none of my schools require it. Its just not happening, I am too busy as a professor at a local state college. I am applying to these PhD programs: Rutgers Statistics Columbia Statistics Stony Brook Applied Math CUNY Math Rutgers Economics The main issue: I really do not have much preparation in physics. I have college physics I (classical dynamics undergrad A), mathematical physics (graduate B+), computational physics (graduate B ). Those 3 are the ONLY physics courses I have, although I do have a lot of applied math courses. Due to my math background, I was looking for programs that have ASTROPHYSICS (my only interest) but also programs with no qualifying exams and the ability to take undergrad core courses to catch up. The only program like that which is still respectable (rank 40) is NYU Physics PhD. NYU has qualifying courses, all of which I need to take and get at least a B, which I could do after taking the core undergrad courses. It is safe to say that I will make at least one of my schools in math, so this is really a reach program, yet if i got in, i think this would be my #1 choice. I have always wanted to pursue physics or astronomy. I am just trying to see how competitive that program is to get into with a really broad math background but no physics gre or high level physics core courses. Thanks!