smellybug

As someone who's learned three languages as an adult, I can't help but wonder why on earth a scholar and writer would want to avoid language requirements. In fact, I switched to Comparative Literature after kicking and screaming my way through an English program's language requirement. Only then did I realize how important second and third and fourth languages are. I understand that it takes a lot of time, but it will be useful in ways you probably can't imagine. Learning languages gives one a new relationship to language and culture and allows for better scholarship (i.e. access to original sources). No culture was created in a vacuum, especially not in the US! I'm an Americanist and find language acquisition crucial to this field. And, as folks have pointed out, reading knowledge is different and, arguably, easier to acquire than speaking. Plus, some programs are willing to send you overseas to do this work during the summer. Bottom line of your worst case scenario: You'd spend a year or two doing coursework and then be able to read Spanish folktales or German folktales or Native American folktales! How awesome is that? I'd urge everyone to reconsider the language requirements as a good opportunity to be paid to do something you might not be able to do at any other point in your life. 

I'm going to be a voice of slight dissent on this. Yes, do the reading, but learn HOW to read effectively. This does not mean you read every single line of every single article or novel. Get a god enough sense of the material to discuss it. Time management helps in this regard, but so does reading introductions, conclusions, and topic sentences to get a general gist before delving deeper into an article. Faculty honestly do not assume you've read every single thing they assign every week, particularly those who assign hundreds upon hundreds each week. It's an admirable goal to shoot for, but it's not always possible.

Go. To. Office. Hours. Faculty much prefer talking with you than undergrads who almost never come.

Be kind. I'm sorry if you end up in a program that practices book hiding. Courtesy to faculty, admin staff, and your fellow students will go a long way, both during and after your program.

Understand how your department operates, including its politics, but DO NOT get sucked into it. You're there for 2-5/6/7 years. It's not your job to fix things, no matter how tempting. But do know that Professor X and Professor Y will never sit on your committee together and cooperate; this will save you a lot of grief.

If you need something, ask for it. You're a pre-1800 scholar and nothing is being offered in the next year? Ask your DGS. Find some way to get what you need in order for your program to work for you.

You should also know that almost all programs (at least I've never heard of one where this was not true) will allow you to take your language classes pass/fail, so you don't need to worry about the grade. 

Here are some questions that I asked current graduate students in programs I visited and what students have asked me! Some of the more... "sensitive"(?) questions tend to work best over something like Skype or even better, at an in-person meeting during something like orientation or prospective student visit days, rather than email though. I also wouldn't recommend directly asking some of these questions as ice-breakers, get to know the other person a bit first
 
1. Are you happy in your program?
2. How often do you TA? What has your TA experience been like? Do you like it?
3. Do you feel that the department and professor care about your success?
4. Where else did you apply and visit? What made you choose this school over others?
5. Do you ever regret the choice you made?
6. What's one thing you wish you could change about the current grad program?
7. What do you know about working for Prof _____? (usually best if it's their advisor) What is his/her advising style like? Do you enjoy working with them?
8. Is the stipend enough to live on? Are you able to save each year? Do you have to take out additional loans?
9. What is the weather like year-round here? How hot/cold does it get? 
10. What is the rent like? How much do students usually pay? What parts of town are good places to live?
11. Is this city a safe place to live? Do you feel safe walking on the streets at night?
12. Do you know any students who are married? Have children? Is the school/department/professor supportive of students with families? (this was important to me but maybe not to everyone)
13. How many students were accepted this year? How many accepted last year, etc.... What's the average number of people that come into the program each year (some people are more hesitant to accept if there's a good chance they might be the only person in their year, or e.g. the only woman/man/minority/etc)
14. What is the atmosphere like between students in the department? Is it friendly? Competitive? Quiet? What about between the professors?
15. Do the students in the department socialize together a lot?
16. How many students graduate per year? How often is it that students fail a qualifying or candidacy exam? Are they allowed to retake them and is it automatic retake or do you have to petition for a retake (and how often are the petitions successful).
17. If summer funding is separate from the school year and you need to apply separately, how often are students successful?
18. What are the courses like at this school? How much time are we expected to spend on time (vs. research).
 
I always answer these questions honestly when I am asked and I know most grad students definitely don't mind taking some time out of their day to provide this type of information. 

As someone who's learned three languages as an adult, I can't help but wonder why on earth a scholar and writer would want to avoid language requirements. In fact, I switched to Comparative Literature after kicking and screaming my way through an English program's language requirement. Only then did I realize how important second and third and fourth languages are. I understand that it takes a lot of time, but it will be useful in ways you probably can't imagine. Learning languages gives one a new relationship to language and culture and allows for better scholarship (i.e. access to original sources). No culture was created in a vacuum, especially not in the US! I'm an Americanist and find language acquisition crucial to this field. And, as folks have pointed out, reading knowledge is different and, arguably, easier to acquire than speaking. Plus, some programs are willing to send you overseas to do this work during the summer. Bottom line of your worst case scenario: You'd spend a year or two doing coursework and then be able to read Spanish folktales or German folktales or Native American folktales! How awesome is that? I'd urge everyone to reconsider the language requirements as a good opportunity to be paid to do something you might not be able to do at any other point in your life. 

While languages aren't everybody's boat and the necessities do vary by discipline, I think this advice--approaching the req with a spirit of "well, this will make me a better scholar!"--is salutary, given both the amount of criticism and theory that appears in other languages as well as the ability to make sharper arguments about the technical features of English texts that comes with experience in another language.
 
Obviously I'm a bit biased, since one of the reasons my subfield is my subfield is the strong linguistic emphasis--in part because I think languages are just plain fun. (I found out yesterday that I may need to add a paragraph to my writing sample discussing a bit of Old Saxon, and I've been giddy ever since.) I know it's ridiculously excoticizing/xenophilic of me, but I think there's something so, so enjoyable about being able to pick up a piece of Old English, say, and just read it.  

As someone who's learned three languages as an adult, I can't help but wonder why on earth a scholar and writer would want to avoid language requirements. In fact, I switched to Comparative Literature after kicking and screaming my way through an English program's language requirement. Only then did I realize how important second and third and fourth languages are. I understand that it takes a lot of time, but it will be useful in ways you probably can't imagine. Learning languages gives one a new relationship to language and culture and allows for better scholarship (i.e. access to original sources). No culture was created in a vacuum, especially not in the US! I'm an Americanist and find language acquisition crucial to this field. And, as folks have pointed out, reading knowledge is different and, arguably, easier to acquire than speaking. Plus, some programs are willing to send you overseas to do this work during the summer. Bottom line of your worst case scenario: You'd spend a year or two doing coursework and then be able to read Spanish folktales or German folktales or Native American folktales! How awesome is that? I'd urge everyone to reconsider the language requirements as a good opportunity to be paid to do something you might not be able to do at any other point in your life. 

As someone who's learned three languages as an adult, I can't help but wonder why on earth a scholar and writer would want to avoid language requirements. In fact, I switched to Comparative Literature after kicking and screaming my way through an English program's language requirement. Only then did I realize how important second and third and fourth languages are. I understand that it takes a lot of time, but it will be useful in ways you probably can't imagine. Learning languages gives one a new relationship to language and culture and allows for better scholarship (i.e. access to original sources). No culture was created in a vacuum, especially not in the US! I'm an Americanist and find language acquisition crucial to this field. And, as folks have pointed out, reading knowledge is different and, arguably, easier to acquire than speaking. Plus, some programs are willing to send you overseas to do this work during the summer. Bottom line of your worst case scenario: You'd spend a year or two doing coursework and then be able to read Spanish folktales or German folktales or Native American folktales! How awesome is that? I'd urge everyone to reconsider the language requirements as a good opportunity to be paid to do something you might not be able to do at any other point in your life. 

As someone who's learned three languages as an adult, I can't help but wonder why on earth a scholar and writer would want to avoid language requirements. In fact, I switched to Comparative Literature after kicking and screaming my way through an English program's language requirement. Only then did I realize how important second and third and fourth languages are. I understand that it takes a lot of time, but it will be useful in ways you probably can't imagine. Learning languages gives one a new relationship to language and culture and allows for better scholarship (i.e. access to original sources). No culture was created in a vacuum, especially not in the US! I'm an Americanist and find language acquisition crucial to this field. And, as folks have pointed out, reading knowledge is different and, arguably, easier to acquire than speaking. Plus, some programs are willing to send you overseas to do this work during the summer. Bottom line of your worst case scenario: You'd spend a year or two doing coursework and then be able to read Spanish folktales or German folktales or Native American folktales! How awesome is that? I'd urge everyone to reconsider the language requirements as a good opportunity to be paid to do something you might not be able to do at any other point in your life. 

One thing that’s worth mentioning, and something that I think comes up indirectly or directly in all of the old timers' posts: Life is not a straight shot from point A to point B. Or, at least in my opinion, life is a windy, confusing set of divergent paths, and each turn of the way highlights something new about the traveler. If I had married my first love or gotten a PhD in what I was interested in at 18, oh, man. Good thing I took some years to figure it out. Life should not be about the pot of (tenured) gold at the end of the (academic) rainbow. Those of us "non-traditional" applicants have taken time out from the straight and narrow to hold unique jobs, travel, start families, maybe fuck up a bit, change life paths several times, and all of this has brought us back to academia with a fierce determination to make it a life. This is not the only life we have led, so, as BlueSiren rightly points out, we have a unique appreciation for it, even knowing the difficulty inherent in starting a PhD later in life. When the POI at my top university told me that my "non-traditional" status made me attractive to the admissions committee, I was a bit thrown off. I have never thought of myself as older or academically disadvantaged, but I am. And, like BlueSiren, my status made me interesting. In each of the interviews I did, the more I talked about my past in and out of academia, the more fascinated the interviewer became. I don't know if this will translate to the job market, but if it doesn't, there are, for me, other options. Obviously, I would prefer to have all the intellectual acumen, life experience, and emotional maturity I have now at 30 in the body of a 24-year-old. Certainly that would make this all easier. But since that's not an option, I have what I have now. And maybe this is a little too fluffy for some, but I think it's most important to develop as a human being. A career pales in comparison to that.

I mean, if nothing else, if your application to the PhD program reported that you are currently in an MA program, there's a reasonable expectation by the adcomm that you in fact intended to finish that program. Maybe it's not a requirement, although some programs require you finish an MA before you start the PhD, but even if it's not a requirement, it was almost certainly part of their decision-making process. So if you choose not to finish, you absolutely should contact your new program and make them aware of that. I would worry, were I you, about the message you might be sending to your new faculty in saying that you don't intend to finish what you started in your MA program.

i don't think that is funny at all.
 
me love kate chopin long time. get it. it's a joke. (eyerolls)

This isn't really true at all. Just about every place will allow for a resubmission of documents as long as it occurs fairly soon after the deadline.
 
Also, it's entirely up to you whether you want to keep fine-tuning your SOP/writing sample through the application season or not. Speaking anecdotally, I received my best responses from my later applications. I had continued working on both, making significant revisions to my sample. YMMV of course. 

Thread. Over.

Why does it have to be books? 

Things NOT to read - this thread after page 4.

Dear GraduatingPhD,
 
Is there a reason you've made this post in FOUR different places? I am starting to think that your intentions are not to warn anyone so much as they are something else. 
 
Confused,
Smellybug

Dear GraduatingPhD,
 
Is there a reason you've made this post in FOUR different places? I am starting to think that your intentions are not to warn anyone so much as they are something else. 
 
Confused,
Smellybug

Dear GraduatingPhD,
 
Is there a reason you've made this post in FOUR different places? I am starting to think that your intentions are not to warn anyone so much as they are something else. 
 
Confused,
Smellybug

Dear GraduatingPhD,
 
Is there a reason you've made this post in FOUR different places? I am starting to think that your intentions are not to warn anyone so much as they are something else. 
 
Confused,
Smellybug

Dear GraduatingPhD,
 
Is there a reason you've made this post in FOUR different places? I am starting to think that your intentions are not to warn anyone so much as they are something else. 
 
Confused,
Smellybug

I think this may make a lot of people smile. It's by a woman who got a PhD in literature who didn't go into academia.
 
http://thebillfold.com/2014/03/what-do-you-do-with-a-ph-d-in-literature/

I advise those who are horrified by the academic job market and academic employment conditions (exploitative! neoliberal! low-paying! no security!) to go give it a whirl in the non-academic job market and workforce for a while. Because every job I had outside of academia was basically ridiculous. But also boring. Academia is about the same in terms of its capitalistic unfairness, but it's not boring.
 
I agree that the university as a non-profit public trust has pretty much folded up and died, and that's pretty sad. It is depressing. It's depressing that administrators at my university are making half a million a year but won't fork over $50,000 for a TT line. It's depressing that college admissions and tuition is up like never before and classes are huge and staffed mostly by part-timers and TAs. We could easily give every unemployed PhD in a America a job, but we won't because that wouldn't be very capitalistic.
 
But. I've always felt that the typical academic person's outrage at these conditions is a little ... naive. I shouldn't say this, but I'm going to anyway: A lot of complaining strikes me as sour grapes--either from paternalistic already tenured people who hate the academic life or from pedigreed well-groomed ex-grad students who never faced rejection in their lives before they set foot on the job market. (There. I said it.) I really do think that people need some perspective here. Yes, any job in the world that's worth having is going to be VERY hard to get. Look at the job ads in the back of The Economist. How many people do you think apply for those jobs?
 
You really have to conceptualize the academic job market as a very high-risk venture, much like landing a job as an associate at a top law firm . You have to understand that you're going to have to apply multiple times, multiple years, and perhaps take undesirable gigs before you get something better. And, oh yeah, have something else going on in your life, or else you are going to feel really shitty. But jobs take time to get.
 
Full disclosure: I was on the academic job market this year. I lived this hell firsthand--and despite this, I think that the solution of "just don't get an education" is a horrible one and not something that I would personally say to anyone. Our society doesn't need fewer educated people.

I have met many people in academia or applying to get in who have been profoundly ignorant about the status of the job market. There's also dozens of essays out there by people who say that they didn't know, which you can easily find. And many of the people who claim to know reflect a pre-2008 understanding. Before the financial crisis, it was really, really bad. People wrote pieces declaring the death of the humanities, etc etc. Then, afterwards, the numbers were cut in half. A lot of people seem to understand the old "this is bad" numbers but not the new "this is so much worse" numbers. And this is to say nothing of the potential for people to say they know but assume that they will be the exception rather than part of the rule.
 
What I don't understand is, if everybody knows this information, why do so many people flip out when it's brought up? If everybody is being coolly rational and informed about this, why the heat and anger when the very words "job market" appear on this board? That, I don't understand. If you're all informed, that's great. But we have every reason to believe that there are people who aren't informed, and that's who threads like this are for. If you're not one of them, just move on. Don't click the thread again. I don't understand why people can't accept the fact that some people aren't really aware and may need to hear this. It's not an insult to you if you're one of the ones who do know. When you flip out about people pointing out facts that you acknowledge are facts, it suggests that you haven't 100% come to terms with all this.

Kamisha - I'm close with several students choosing between PhD programs at this very moment and in talking with them have gotten the sense that applicants do not have a fully realistic picture of what the job market is like--nor do many admitting programs provide that data for them.  I'm also an interested observer of the job market as I prepare to go on it in the fall.  Also, I have a lot of friends who have gone through the job market--some of whom have been spectacularly successful, some who are fighting to get by.  Many of them felt that they had little knowledge about the job market when they started (though it was certainly better than) and many of them feel they would have made different decisions had they known.
 
In his fit of immaturity, TDazzle suggested that these statistics are known to all.  In actually, getting numbers on the situation is rather hard.  There are aggregate level numbers like those reported by the MLA, etc, but those don't really tell us what it looks like on the ground.  Few schools actually report reliable numbers too.  The Harvard numbers I posted are the best quality and timespan I've see for what it looks like to get a PhD from a top department.
 
No, as I said at the end of my post, I am not at all inclined to steer people away from choosing a PhD program.  In fact, all things considered, I would very likely choose to do it again.
 
My point is not to dictate peoples' choices--each of us have to decide for ourselves, obviously, and what you value may not be what I value--but since a tt job is the endgoal of many pursuing PhD programs, data that helps people on the verge of committing to a career figure out how likely that is may be very useful to some.  Unfortunately, as TDazzle's snark makes clear, such information is, for many, also anxiety provoking. 

So just to be clear: you came to a message board full of people applying to English/Rhetoric/Comparative Literature PhD programs and decided that, now, in March, 5 months after applying, you will remind us of the news no one doesn't know and repeat to us the websites and stats our loved ones, family members, and friends harp to us constantly?
 
Do you have a Kickstarter page so I can fund you to push kids off swings while telling them Santa doesn't exist?