coyabean
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Posts posted by coyabean
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OOOOhhh fun. I love imagining even if I'm now learning how woefully bad humans are at doing it.
I really think I will like teaching. I've done corporate training and it is still my favorite job, and I've had lots. So my ideal is probably like most people's: a small, quaint, progressive, well-funded, diverse liberal arts school* -- maybe even an all-girls school! -- where I have an office full of blond wood, books and natural light. I teach wonderfully engaged students and when I get tired of that I take a semester for "deep hanging out" so that I can work on my next revolutionary book.
More realistically I can imagine being happy in a some kind of public intellectual role, too. Maybe working for a university-based social science research lab with a strong outreach initiative? Maybe as some kind of liason to the public?
If all else fails I'll go the dark side: administration or government work.
*I am fully aware such a thing does not exist. Do not burst my bubble, please.
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Well, the addition of a troll on the gradcafe might spice things up a bit in this waiting time.
LOL!
I know. And I'm so proud of myself for figuring it out. I'm notoriously naive about these things. I'm all earnest and crap and think others are, too. Thus my note about realizing that this wasn't a real conversation. It's really something I'm working on. The introduction of emotionally-charged words like "racist" and "racism" and the total refusal to engage in logical discourse -- it all hit me. Bam! Troll. YAY! I got it.
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i was being sarcastic when i called myself a racist. you implied that i was a racist. twice.
ann coulter is possibly my least favorite person. the fact that you mention her amuses me.
i love that literature is so open to interpretation. i love almost everything about literature, including its (tragic and) increasing irrelevance as a field.
When and where? O_o
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coyabean, was it a qualitative or quantitative study? qualitative studies, as we know as educated people, are not the most reliable. the link you provided was not to a research study at all, but an opinion piece with references.
i was taught in the 9th grade that we are all ethnocentric. being called racist is what i have come to expect when i stand up for the most discriminated against class of people on earth: rich white American males.
I am terrified that you think that considering your discipline. What quantitative data goes into English Lit?
But Claude Steele's article is an excellent overview that results from more than a dozen studies he has conducted, that's why I linked it. But for more information please search "Claude Steele", "Stereotype Threat", or see any of the three studies I posted further up.
And no one called you a racist but you.
I just read an interesting pop psych article yesterday about why is Ann Coulter so angry. There was some interesting stuff about anger as a preemptive protective measurement against challenge often and disproportionately used by those who feel entitled in some way. It was in Psychology Today, I think.
And OMG. I just looked back over the progression of this conversation and realized that you aren't serious about engaging in the subject! I have to get better at that or this is going to be a long road.
So ignore it all, but I'll leave it for posterity; internet integrity and all.
- keylimekai and Sparky
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First of all, if you are excessively underfunded, you don't have to pay to take the GRE.
Secondly, call me a radical, but I am tired of wealthy, well educated parents and students being discriminated against using this argument. I am also tired of minorities being discriminated against using this argument.
Racism is racism.
The argument irks me for two reasons: If you're white and/or wealthy and do well on a standardized test, you didn't earn and/or deserve it. If you're not, you're an exception to the rule, and shouldn't have done well, because the standarized test is out to get you. Puh-lease.
how's this for an explanation: cultural mores lead white, well educated people to want to do well on standarized tests. therefore: THEY STUDY HARDER. same thing for minorities who wish to do well. yes, i am suggesting that a large percentage of minorities do not care about doing well on standarized tests. OMFG, i'm a racist.
Well you know you better than I do so I cannot disagree with your assessment, but I do disagree with the lack of support for your findings.
If we are all trying to attain advanced degrees I think we have a special responsibility to not use our experiences as the Universal and to consider statistical evidence.
The fact remains that there is a wealth of literature to dispute the idea that there is a culture of failure in minority communities. There is more than one longitudinal study that says poor black and brown children (again, I cite a Steele article: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/race/steele.htm) have a GREATER cultural appreciation for academic achievement than their white counterparts.
These types of engagements really reinforce my reasons for going to graduate school. We have here a collection of scientists and humanists that appear ready to easily dismiss the experiences of some people as valid. That is one of many problems I have with higher education. Sure, some people of ALL COLORS do not want to invest in the delayed gratification of learning. That is actually quite American, in my opinion. However, to casually dismiss evidence to the contrary of your personal experience is sloppy scholarship that can be potentially dangerous when you are left relatively unsupervised and omnipotent in a classroom setting with people with life experiences that contradict your "study of one". And this is not directed at one person. I wish it were that easy and that contained. This is systemic and, I think, characteristic of human behavior. We problemitize and marginalize experiences different than our own, and that's when we're progressive and learned! At worse, humans in general and Americans in particular seem inclined to attribute perceived differences as functions of existing frameworks for understanding people -- ethnicity, class, gender, etc. It's easy and lazy.
Let me also point out, though, that women are also outperformed by men. Are we prepared to conclude that there is a gendered cultural norm that disadvantages women? Or, are we more comfortable with an ambiguous de-raced group as being more deserving of both the benefit of doubt and validation of proof? And if so, why are we more comfortable with that than the idea that maybe, just maybe, the very unique way in which race has manifested itself and been acted upon in this country could have similar effects? I think that is as an interesting a question as any.
- NEPA, expressionista and pangur-ban
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I agree.. I mean, I'm from Russia and have only been in North America for 3 years now (Canada- never been to the States).. And I did fine. In fact, my verbal score is 99% percentile.
If there is any bias, I'd say it's more of an Anglo-Saxon/Victorian lit heritage. But that just means you've happened to read/like those kinds of books (which is my case). I have another friend who's from Benin (Africa), has never set foot in the states either and is anything but middle-class. She also happens to love Jane Austen and aced the GRE.
Now we're getting into my area so I apologize, in advance, for going overboard.
There is a prevailing school of thought that suggests that all standardized tests privilege those who have the means, opportunity and access to prepare for the skills tested by such tests like the SAT, GRE, LSAT, etc. The most research has been done for the SAT for many reasons. The second most discussed test seems to be the LSAT. But there is some literature about the GRE.
One of the issues I have with such conclusions is not a disagreement with the fact that minority students, on average, are outperformed by white students, again, on average but that race is, as usual, being conflated poverty. POOR students and those who are born into poor families in poor communities that then funnel them into poor school districts are severely disadvantaged for a test that does not test one's preparedness for graduate school as it does an accumulation of cultural knowledge that trains students to think in "acceptable" ways that can then be segmented and tested for. For instance, expansive vocabulary and critical thinking skills have been tied to early exposure to high-level language in the home and in school. Well, too often poor kids -- the number of which, for reasons too complicated to maybe discuss with someone who is not American, are too often black and brown -- are underexposed to high-level language. Those same children, the most vulnerable, are then placed in the most overburdened schools where issues of safety and order often trump teaching and learning.
When one loses that opportunity to acculturate to sophisticated language processes and critical thinking it is very difficult to "catch up" later in life. Even if a focused, assertive learner from these circumstances does close the gap - and it absolutely happens - poverty comes to visit again when it comes time to prepare for these tests. Children of wealthier parents can afford expensive tutoring and help that is proven to increase competence at these tests.
I do not ever want to communicate that black children cannot learn and these tests are specifically designed to filter them out. That is the kind of talk that leads to discussions the like of "The Bell Curve", among others. It is not race but what race has come to mean in terms of access and mobility and wealth in this country that privileges non-minority students.
And so, yeah.
ETA
numbers and studies and all that sexy quant stuff so no one thinks I'm pulling stuff out of my arse:
And my favorite by Claude Steele: http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=Ywb7r1oOxJYC&oi=fnd&pg=PA401&dq=graduate+school+testing+race&ots=xnx1P0-ejx&sig=m3zHtv47jCraLE3GjQuBxk65WeE#v=onepage&q=&f=false
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!My GRE scores sucked, I got 600 quan and 580 verbal, thank God the committees realized that I have a whole lot more to offer than my GRE scores. I had a decent but not amazing undergrad GPA and a really high grad GPA as well as a lot of other important activities on my CV. All that worry was for nothing really, I feel a lot better nowSo basically he has my combined GRE score. :/ Nice. I probably won't even be read at most of the schools to which I applied and that hurts.
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Though I can reasonably understand universities' plights to profit from application season (usually 50 USD from, perhaps, 200+ applicants per grad program?), I find it very offensive that many grad programs are not at all forthcoming about their admittance criteria. At most of the programs I have pursued, the departments are quite close-mouthed about cutoff GPA and GRE scores. "We review applicants holistically," they've often said. Yet committees apparently only "holistically" view the applicants that have not gotten the ax for falling below the GPA and GRE cutoffs. As a fair, hardworking adult genuinely committed to my field of study, I am insulted that I may have fallen prey to the holistic-line and could have saved myself valuable time, effort and money by first determining for myself if I met the basic GPA and GRE requirements. This is not to say that I am not a serious student and that my credentials are poor. I am an honors student and will be soon earning a second Masters degree (am therefore pursuing a PhD, as has been my goal even as a high school student), but my GRE scores are average (which I can be grateful for, being that I was ill with the flu and sleep-deprived from being so sick--of course, adcoms will never know this). I don't mean to rant, but this is terribly frustrating. I simply don't appreciate game-playing when my academic and professional future is at stake....
I agree. I can live with not meeting the bar of a dream school - oh hai Yale -- but I resent, absolutely, being lied to.
Here I again compare this to law schools. You can judge, fairly accurately, how you stand in law school admissions based on your GPA and LSAT. It's brutal but it's transparent and honest.
This is like when guys swear up and down that they look at "inner beauty". I'd rather you say "I really appreciate models and video dancers with low self-esteem." That is so much more fair.
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I love my mother like a kid loves cake, but YES to all of your questions! Even after explaining the odds and how it all works she, a very smart woman in her own right, seems to only hear every other word I say. So, when I say "I am so anxious about getting an acceptance because I'm ready to start my life" she hears "I am getting an acceptance that will ready me for life."
No.
What i want is ONE person in my life with whom I can commiserate over all of the details and minutiae of this process. I want someone to agree that if I met a school's ridiculous Nov 1st deadline that someone could have made a damn decision by Jan. 8. I want someone to comb the internet with and agree that its almost a lost cause. I want someone to roll around in the muck with me.
My mother loves me. She says I am the smartest person she knows. She thinks I can just sashay into a school, pick a program and start next month -- preferably at a school close to home.
She doesn't get that I'll probably embark upon one of many moves to anywhere in the country that someone wants me. She also says things like "oh you can get a job at the local State Uni!" like its a bagel shop. Forget they are a research II and have nothing in my field or anything close to my interests.
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tyranny
short people.
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I figure I might stick around and occasionally offer advice to the next round of applicants. It was really helpful for me to hear from current students, so I feel like I ought to return the favor. But I won't miss the obsessive checking part, that's for sure!
Ditto.
I hope to pay it all forward.
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Awesome! I'm also on the Anth boards but I have several Interdiscp. programs on my list and, ultimately, my research interests cross all kinds of boundaries.
I am somewhere at the intersection of higher education, history and sociology of education, complex societies, urban and policy studies, ethnography and critical race studies. My project would employ a mix of ethnography and quantitative analysis to determine how neighborhoods and colleges share space and participate, respectively, in knowledge production both formal and informal. And GAH if I'd had that succinct line four months ago when I sent off my first app I'd be feeling a lot more confident. LOL My UG is in English and Poli. Sci.
Anyone here apply to USC's ASE program? I think it would be a dream.
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For example, I "earned" a GRE quant score in the sixth percentile. Not sixtieth, SIXTH. That's an accomplishment ladies and gentlemen!
LOL! My first GRE score was something like that. I think in the teens? My verbal was in the 96th for context. My advisors just looked at me and laughed.
And Y'all are failing at failure. Let me learn you something:
-- there is, no lie, a 12 year gap in my transcript. The last year of the first trip? All NWs and NFs. I'm talking two, if not three -- I can't look anymore -- semesters of straight nothing. When I returned to school the advisor told me it is a miracle of my early 4.0s that my GPA was above a 2.0...if just barely.
-- I graduated from a school where you can pass if you showed up for the final and didn't stab the professor, not exactly rigorous.
-- Thanks to the NWs and NFs? My attempted hours make me look like an idiot.
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All that makes a lot of sense and I appreciate the perspective.
I hadn't really thought as much as I should have about the fact that my professors are attaching their names to my application.
Of course I could still talk all day about things I wish I would have done differently.
Anyway, hopefully in a few months we will all have success stories and this weird chapter will be all over.
Take this with a grain of salt because it is all secondhand as I am in the same boat as you BUT every person I met during my fellowship last year said this. Academia is insular to the point of inbreeding. They trust the opinion of their peers more than any test or GPA because they understand all of the variables in those measurements. Consider it like peer review in publishing -- you are not legitimate until an established scholar cosigns you. By writing you a letter this is what is happening.
I still find it hard to process, too. I come from working for ten years where I've never had anyone care enough to vouch for me. LOL I watched people get promoted based on family and friends. I never imagined I'd be in such a circle so I'm pessimistic to the point of paranoia. But I've had no fewer than FOUR active scholars pull me aside and basically say, "look, XYZ CHOSE you. that matters. do your part but believe s/he is doing theirs, too."
So, maybe that helps?
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Welllllll, ok. I'm a good southern girl, though, so I'll have my fingers crossed as I submit this because I don't want to jinx anything.
- Above 90th percentile on Verbal and AW of GRE?
- Awarded Research Fellowship
- Article under review at peer-reviewed journal
- Two Conference Presentations
- A third Conference invite for this semester
- 10 years of relatable professional experience (education administration; it relates to my research questions)
- My main letter writer is a superstar not just in his field but for just about any person of color in academia. I've yet to talk to anyone at any school who does not know him. It's not Skip and them but very close. He promises me that I'll be able to choose among offers. :/
- Wrote grant for NES; it's pending
- Um...I hear good things about my SOP?
** Do you have any idea how long it took me to write this? I had to keep stopping to edit out self-deprecating commentary and qualifiers. Jeez.
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I don't hate this idea, but I am "tainted" by the private sector.
The positives, as I see them:
-- promote scholarship that actually gets read versus the dissert; even if by a small audience that is better than a e-doc gathering moss in a library server somewhere. at the very least the peer reviewers will have read it.
-- it provides more information for the college-going public. as it stands how are potential students being forced to judge the quality of an institution? by the slick marketing campaigns and the very unbiased ranking systems. I like the idea of being able to compare recent published scholarship of faculty. While some schools make this possible by their internal tenure standards I have come across many profs who haven't published anything in 20 years. As a student this puts me at a disadvantage when entering a program.
-- at this point anything else that forces folks to review why they are pursuing a phd might be a good thing in light of the statistics.
The major negative:
-- the peer review system is anything but blind. What mechanism is there to promote an egaliatarian approach that does not privilege those with name recognition in the publishing process? And "blind review" is hooey. People often know who they are reading. That some scholars are published prodigiously while others can't get an acceptance isn't entirely justified by the quality of the paper. For example, everyone knows my mentor in his field(s). They know his kinds of issues and his writing voice. They also know he's probably floating some new idea or theory because they've had dinner together or seen him at conference. So when a "blind" article hits their desk that sounds like something he would do or has talked about doing he gets some benefit of the doubt that I would not.
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I'm wondering about social network postings, actually - how many of you will post acceptances publicly on Facebook?
I knew a girl who thought it very uncouth to post results on F-book. She was modest and preferred to tell people only if they asked directly, plus she said she felt some animosity from people who didn't get into their schools. But then again, isn't this what social networks are for? Sharing news? There was an article in the NY Times about it, the writer thought it base to post college acceptances:
"Accepted, Rejected or Deferred? Keep the Answer Off Facebook."
I think it's totally okay to post at least where you decide to go, just maybe not a list like, "Look at all my acceptances!"
Who are these arbitrary culture police? I will tell whomever, however! As much as I've been through if I have good news and you don't and you cannot see far enough past the end of your nose to not internalize it then that's YOUR problem, not mine. I'm planning a facebook/lj photo shoot of me in the full school paraphenelia outfit i intend to purchase.
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In this order:
1. Mom
2. The results page (don't say I never did anything for you!)
3. First name Paul, last name Masson.
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What you say sounds perfectly sane and good. I'm decidedly NOT a go with the flow type, which probably colours my opinions on this. I definitely plan other parts of my life around my grad school plans. My husband and I just bought a house in my PhD city. We started house hunting once I had accepted an offer, and not a moment before. Our timeline for potential children is entirely dependent on when I start dissertation work. For me and for a lot of people, being in limbo about a PhD means being in limbo about a lot of other things.
If you can keep the applications cycle going and still love your life and accomplish other things, more power to you. But if it's seriously interfering with your emotional health or ability to pursue other goals, I think you need to be honest with yourself about that. ("You" being the general 'you', of course, and not any specific poster.)
This.
It's both great and condescending to assume that everyone has your resources, goals, personality, needs, or life and can or even should experience rejection the same way you do. The individual as universal experience isn't a good research model. I also mean this universally.
Sure, I'll live if I don't get in this semester, but like you I have concerns about saving, a mortgage, aging parents and other things that will need to be managed.
I have a back-up plan, family support and a very high degree of resilience. But I will still be depressed if I don't make it this year and I will give it one more go-around before resigning myself to another life goal.
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I believe the deadline is for the application submission and they offer some flexibility for the supporting material to arrive. After all, it could well be that you sent your documents 2 months in advance and it got lost in the mail; not really your fault. For instance, I emailed yesterday one of my schools admission officer to check my application was complete and got the following answer:
Thank you forsubmitting an application to our program. After the applicationdeadline, we will finish sorting the application materials that weresent by mail and online. You will receive a status e-mail shortly afterthe deadline, which will let you know if your materials submitted arecomplete. Please feel free to contact us after receiving this e-mail ifyou notice any issues. Thank you.
I got similar reactions from other schools, so you should not be too worried of late recommendations, transcripts or GRE.
thanks for such a detailed follow-up! i really appreciate it. that makes me feel more confident.
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Since the theme is already "scaring people off", here's a horror story I read recently that's been helping me keep my nose to the grind, so to speak. And this is someone who actually made it.
There's just no justice in this world anymore.
So, what's the lesson here, if any? I'm not sure. Stories like this are scary because you only get one side of the story. I can't judge how I might potentially stack up against the adjunct's qualifications because they aren't detailed; but, I also cannot rule out becoming her.
I'm sure everyone is like me in thinking they are different.
We'll have to wait and see.
I know one thing: no way in hell I'm going to spend five years adjuncting. I'll go into the private sector or government after a year or so with no teaching job. I'm too old for that crap.
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Thanks guys!
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I ordered three score reports from GRE at the last moment due to cash flow issues. With no way of checking with schools during the holiday season to verify they were recieved I am a bit worried about if they got there by the deadline. Will the schools contact me if they were not recieved or do the apps get trashed?
I feel like someone here -- rising_star? -- said this happened to her during her season but just want to be sure.
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It could be the writing snob in me but I have a hard time believing that dry is ever preferable to engaging. I think those who despise engaging writing are either not really reading something engaging or incapable of doing it themselves so they act as if there's some sort of cachet to being boring.
I say if you can be both informative AND interesting, why in the world wouldn't you be? Perfunctory writing is for people cannot master being interesting. All IMO and YMMV.
Some admissions committee insights
in Waiting it Out
Posted
I think part of the problem is schools playing the ranking yield game. More applications, lower percentage of accepted applicants = prestige. So while they resent all the work it takes to process your app and take your money - as seen, IMO, in the insane way alot of apps systems are designed to make them difficult -- they also need lots of suckers to apply to seem elite.