JoePianist

Management, hiring/recruiting, marketing, productivity. Also, areas like diversity and discrimination, training...anything related to making a business run successfully, essentially. A thorough I/O PhD training prepares people for a variety of roles. For instance, there are I/O candidates in my current lab. They have taken internships or positions in many different areas.  Some have moved into the tech sector, and do User Experience research and development. Some go to work at universities or non-profits working on diversity initiatives. Others have gone to work in private industry, helping to develop tools and techniques that help businesses make more money. 
I/O is not for someone who wants to do any kind of clinical work. If you want to do counseling with clients or patients, if you want to work with kids or teens, if you want to do diagnostic testing, those kinds of things, than you need to go the Clinical Route.  I/O is very different from what most people think of when they talk about psychology.

Hey! So I interviewed with FDU and I was really impressed by the program and how nice the faculty and current students were! The biggest issue that I had was funding. They only offer a $5K tuition reimbursement and I’m looking to go somewhere where I’d be fully funded. Most/all of their current students take out loans and/or work part time while in the program and that’s not feasible for me. Knowing myself, I would not be able to handle working while in a clinical PhD program and I don’t particularly want to accrue $200-250K in loans (that’s roughly how much I personally would need to take out to pay for tuition, fees, books, living expenses, etc.). I am deeply saddened by the financial aspect of this program because I absolutely loved it when I interviewed!!

I 1000% agree with this. It took me 4 years of undergrad, 3 years of post-bac research coordinator work, almost 2 years of a Master's to understand just how exclusive and elitist (not to mention racist) this system really is. I know faculty are in a tough spot, but the nature of academia and grants makes it nearly impossible to get even close to joining the system. And faculty will tell you the competition only gets harder in academia to get funding and tenure, mostly because there are more and more people getting PhDs, i.e., supply is less than demand. 
I don't know what the solution is to the exclusivity, but it seems like something has to give. And I encourage people who are doctoral students, postdocs, early career psychologists, etc. to push for changes in the system to make it more equitable and accessible to the plethora of brilliant applicants that get left behind, discouraged, and leave the field. 

Guys, I'm really heart broken here and would really just love some insight... does anyone have an offer at UIC (Univ of Illinois at Chicago) that is still holding on to an offer? Are you planning on accepting/rejecting? Again, I'm sorry to even ask. I'm just so crushed and do not know what to do here... this was my only chance

Well, this has been existentially crushing. Has anyone else been officially roundly rejected? I guess I'm not really surprised that I'm going to be third-rounder, but it doesn't make it any less frustrating, especially since admissions may be just as bad next year. What's stopping me from having to do even a fourth round at this rate? There really is no end in sight for this circus, and I wish we could stop vying so much for the ringmasters' approval.

So I've heard from people that "every year gets harder" for getting into psychology programs (particularly clinical psych), but this year is just insane. I'm feeling so frustrated because I got waitlisted at the only school I got an interview from, and now I might not get into grad school this year despite applying to 15 programs. This is my second time applying to clinical programs, and this time I applied with 2 years of full-time research experience (plus 3 years part-time research experience), 3 glowing LOR including one well known PI, and a paper in revision which then was accepted for publication shortly after apps were due (I notified all my potential PIs right away) plus 1 paper under review and 2 in prep, plus 4 first authored posters and a dozen other posters I've worked on as second or third author. (My undergrad GPA was 3.95 so that also shouldn't be an issue). My supervisors, an associate and assistant professor at an R01, were confident I would receive several offers this year with my CV and after looking over my personal statement as well. And yet here we are... 
I'm sure I'm not the only qualified applicant facing this. And I also know that people who are receiving offers are super amazing so no shade to them. It just sucks that funding is so down this year and there were suddenly so many more applicants. 
I'm feeling especially frustrated today because a grad student in one of the labs I work in was asking for my help with stats, and it's like if I can teach current grad students things they don't know and still not get into a program, what the heck?! Is it even worth it to keep trying to get into this field? I just feel so discouraged. 
Feel free to vent about this crazy app season or anything else psychology field / application related below. 

Just found this additional list
Oregon State University (non-clinical only; Kathy Becker-Blease) University of Tulsa (Lisa Cromer) University of Regina (Bridget Klest) University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign (community health, Robyn Gobin) University of California, Santa Cruz (non-clinical only; contact Eileen Zurbriggen) University of California, San Diego (contact Carolyn Allard) Alliant University (contact Constance Dalenberg) Nova Southeastern University (contact Steve Gold) Saint Louis University (contact Terri Weaver) Towson University (Master's degree only; contact Bethany Brand) Penn State-Erie (Master's in Applied Clinical Psychology, Melanie Hetzel-Riggin) APA-Div 56's list of trauma psychology graduate programs ISSTD's list of academic supervisors with trauma focus List of "feminist-friendly" graduate programs and internships in psychology

I thought I'd post the top of my list of potential mentors whose work is relevant to my interest in contextualizing experiences of traumatic stress (fairly broad). I applied for Fall 2016 matriculation in PhD programs. I currently attend University of Denver, in their child and adolescent clinical psych track. Not sure if the table will be formatted okay-- I'll post a list afterward if it's wonky. Obviously this is not an exhaustive list of folks working in Trauma, more people who had interests strongly in line with my own. Feel free to post other trauma-related researchers! 
Sidenote for folks applying this round, this is an example table of how I tracked all my potential mentors. I vaguely ranked them based on how close the fit was, and only ended up applying to four. Some stuff isn't filled in, but feel free to google them! 
I'd also mention Jennifer Freyd (University of Oregon; interpersonal and institutional betrayal trauma), who I did my undergrad work with, but I'm not sure she will be taking students-- actually not sure about anyone on this list for the coming application cycle, except Dr. DePrince at DU, who is interested in taking a student this year.

  Person Email School City Match? Interest 1 Anne DePrince Anne.Deprince@du.edu University of Denver Denver, CO 1 individual characteristics/context --> violence/abuse exposure + clinical symptoms 2 Andrew Rasmussen   Fordham     social-ecologial effects of forced migration/ trauma in humanitarian disasters 3 Patricia A Frazier   Minnesotta     NOTE! counseling psych program; interface of counseling psychology and social psychology; identify factors associated with adjustment to stressful or traumatic life events. 4 Maryam Kia-Keating   UC Santa Barbara     socio-ecological!!! culture, immigrant/refugee youth, violence/trauma, PTSD 5 George A. Bonanno   Columbia     Post-traumatic resilience 6 Inger E Burnett-Zeigler i-burnett-zeigler@northwestern.edu Northwestern Chicago   depression, barriers to treatment in racial/ethnic minorities / low-income 7 Sharon Lambert slambert@gwu.edu GW DC   internalizing behavior in low-income/"urban" youth; neighborhood effects 8 Esteban V. Cardemil   Clark University Worcester, MA   Mental health care disparities for minorities, prevention and treatment, cultural adaptations, depression 9 Albert Farrell   Virginia Commonwealth University     impact of exposure to community violence and peer victimization on adolescents’ development; and identification of protective factors that promote the positive development of youth in high risk environments (e.g., those living in communities with high rates of poverty and violence).  10 Vickie M. Mays maysv@nicco.sscnet.ucla.edu UCLA   3 minority mental health 11 Lauren Cattaneo   George Mason     applies a community psychology orientation; within the area of intimate partner violence, focused on the key constructs of empowerment and survivor-centered practice to explore the best ways to assist survivors. 12 Laura McKee   Clark University Worcester, MA   internalizing psychopathology (e.g., depression and anxiety) develops in at-risk children and adolescents.

I did an interview for the early deadline. The professor they paired me with had absolutely no common clinical or research  interests with me, which sort of bothered me. She asked about why clinical psychology, why Nova specifically, research interests, etc. Very soft-ball questions. And then most of the time was spent with me asking questions so make sure you have plenty prepared. They have you do break out rooms with students where you ask more questions. You’ll do a group activity with other applicants and you’ll have to write a short blurb about what the future of psychology would look like. TBH, I got accepted but I’m declining the offer. Absolutely no funding, not even if you TA/RA, and it’s in an incredibly expensive town. Plus your cohort is like 98 people...it just feels like a total diploma factory unfortunately. To each their own of course, but the debt and non-individualized attention is not for me.

You can check to see if the university has an Ombudsman and direct your concern to them. They are supposed to keep things confidential. I am so sorry you had this experience.

Wait at least four weeks following interviews to contact your potential POI for a status update. However, if you need to know sooner due to a pending offer, you can contact them sooner.
This is how I would write the inquiry email – feel free to customize the following as you see fit:
Email subject line: “Eilean Donan - Request for Application Update”:
“Dear Dr. X,
I hope this message finds you well during this busy season. I remain excited about the prospect of continuing my training under your mentorship. If possible, can you provide an estimated date by which I can expect a decision made about my application? 
I greatly appreciate your time and consideration. Please let me know if I can provide any further information as well.
Best Regards,
Eilean Donan”

Wait at least four weeks following interviews to contact your potential POI for a status update. However, if you need to know sooner due to a pending offer, you can contact them sooner.
This is how I would write the inquiry email – feel free to customize the following as you see fit:
Email subject line: “Eilean Donan - Request for Application Update”:
“Dear Dr. X,
I hope this message finds you well during this busy season. I remain excited about the prospect of continuing my training under your mentorship. If possible, can you provide an estimated date by which I can expect a decision made about my application? 
I greatly appreciate your time and consideration. Please let me know if I can provide any further information as well.
Best Regards,
Eilean Donan”

I'm so sorry to hear that you're in this situation ? Personally, I think I'd wait. I'm actually doing that now (not applying to masters because I don't want the debt!). The great thing about PhDs is that they SHOULD be funded. You are providing a service to the school and in turn they are shaping you and helping you set and reach goals that you wouldn't be able to do otherwise. I'm not sure how things would work in the future if you decided to apply to palo altos program, if there's any chance that it will impede on your progress as a post-doc/PhD I say DEFINITELY don't do it. But if people don't bat an eye at it....than maybe its just a matter of if you want more school debt. These are hard decisions to make and no one can make them for you. I'm a firm believer that we make the best out of any situation we're in and I believe you can do that as long as Palo Altos program doesn't look bad in the future. 

Fordham certainly doesn’t mince words... 

Ugh I can't wait until this season is over... it's such a soul-sucking process. I had one interview but it doesn't look like I'll get anymore at this point, and this is already my second time applying. Is it just me or is this year crazy competitive even compared to other application years? Maybe it's a combination of COVID creating less funding and the GRE requirement being waived for many programs, I'm not sure... 

I wish I didn't even waste my time applying this cycle, wow. 

Is anyone else frustrated with the lack of communication from departments when contacted directly? I've emailed two with a basic yes/no question and never heard back. I know they're busy, but it literally takes 5 seconds to send a response that can really help ease someone's mind. Given that our app fees are what's helping to support these programs, it seems like decent courtesy to me. 

I'm sorry if my comment came off as me saying the program I attend is superior. That was not my intention. I know people who have gone to Alliant (and Argosy) that have been burned. Heck, several former Argosy students now attend my program after those schools shut down. I even know some great clinicians who have graduated from Alliants/Argosys, and they typically attribute their success to their own tenacity rather than the standard training they received at the program. Granted these are just a few examples, but these people have often reported they did not feel supported by their program and are successful despite the program rather than in part due to the program. The reason I brought up the cohort size is because in a program that large, it's hard to get the individualized attention that is necessary at the graduate level to guide professional development. The faculty are only able to give x number of hours to student because there are only 24 hours in a day. The greater number of students, the less time the faculty have to give each student..
Also, those metrics are quantitative data (match rates, EPPP pass rates, and licensure rates). APA requires the reporting of many of these metrics so that people can quantitatively evaluate programs on equal data points. At the end of the day, Alliant has a very strong financial reason to get students through the door. It is in their best interest as a for profit institution, so yes, they pour a lot of money into marketing and coming up with good sounding reasons to address the poor outcome measures. However, if there is a consistent pattern of under-performance compared to the vast majority of other programs, then that is indicative of a programmatic issue and not just just the occasional outlier. Outliers don't account for approximately 40% of people not passing the EPPP and therefore being ineligible for licensure at that time.
At the end of the day, do what is best for you. I have no skin in the game. I just wanted to point out the concerning metrics that have left a significant number of people in hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt for a career that doesn't financially justify that kind of debt load. 

If your signature is accurate, I would honestly try again next year. Alliant has a very poor reputation as a diploma mill (if a school is for profit, it's a corporation intent on making money, not a place of higher learning). They're APA-accredited match rates, EPPP pass rates, cohort sizes (83 new students in 2018-2019?! That's literally more people than my entire PsyD program, faculty included.), and licensure rates are pretty big red flags. It's a PsyD, if only 75% of graduates are licensed.....what else are they doing? Based on the EPPP pass rates and low APA-accredited internship match rates, my guess is that they aren't able to get licensed, and are saddled with crazy amounts of debt to boot. 

Expensiveswimmer, I’d recommend asking the PI that you’re working with if there are writing opportunities that you could get involved in. I find most PIs to be fairly flattered when a student they know fairly well does this. Many start out doing grunt work and can move past that if they ask. Maybe the assistant professor that commented earlier might have more specific advice. 

Yay! A fellow Blasian!

Yay! A fellow Blasian!

Yeah, it’s been that way in the psychology field pretty much forever ? 

I don’t think you’re being rude! I just wish that more faculty would take into consideration the barriers that the clinical psych application has (maybe even try to fix them?). I just personally am dumbfounded when I see people with good experience, coupled with passion and drive, get rejected from programs that are a good fit. It’s definitely not an easy path by any means, and I really don’t know how we can fix it without more funding. Of course, we can actually start to look holistically at applicants, and the removal of the GRE this cycle was a good first start. It also doesn’t help when people get into programs solely due to connections - but I assume we can’t do anything about that, as it is a common thread in almost every field in academia ?. 

For what it's worth, I will echo that going to a school with excellent resources from the get-go is preferable.
Unfortunately, some people don't consider that as 17/18-year-old's. They might not even know to think of such a thing - it's not like most people understand what it takes to succeed in clinical psych fresh out of high school. Some parents don't know how to appropriately guide their kids in this way either.
Another major element is that some people may not have the choice to go to an R1, perhaps due to familial and/or geographical constraints. I didn't. Does this mean that some people shot themselves in the foot from the get-go without even realizing it? It's not like you can discuss these sorts of issues in your grad statement or interview. PI's never seem care about your life's story when it's directly pertinent to why you aren't as "accomplished" as some others. You never know what someone else may have had to go through to get "even this far." Trauma, health issues, family issues, financial difficulties, all the above...these have a very real, tangible impact on the paths of many aspiring clinicians and researchers.
RE: jobs, I would be very interested to see some stats on how many apps it takes to secure a decent position on average. I'm sure some folks (R1 grads) don't have too hard a time, but I can state that even with applying across the country I probably sent maybe ~250 apps(?) to no avail. I only even got my current one through volunteering, and it took quite some time before funding came through for me. If anything, I think it would be fantastic if faculty and admins across the field were more in-tuned to the experiences and sacrifices of those who come from a SLAC background or are otherwise disadvantaged.