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dancedementia

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Posts posted by dancedementia


  1. 18 minutes ago, Le Chat said:

    It's mostly due to the focus on what meets my goals, the accessibility of those programs versus Psych, and the greater ability to train future mental health practitioners at the Master's level.

    Makes sense! I take it you're planning on applying to PhD programs in Counselor Ed?


  2. 14 hours ago, MiddleOfSomeCalibrations said:

    I have 33 schools/59 POIs on my list right now. I know some of them won't end up taking grad students, but I'll probably still be applying to ~20-25 programs!

    That's a robust list haha. If I had the $$ I would totally apply to a ton of schools. But damn, this process is expensive :(


  3. 5 hours ago, Itzik said:

    if you dont mind me asking, where are you finding these research coordinator positions?

    Yep, mainly from those two sites that @higaisha referenced earlier up on this thread. I also go directly to the sites of AMCs and scour their career sections. I applied to 8 positions from McLean just from looking up open positions.

    6 hours ago, topsailpsych said:

    ... it is harder to get into a clinical program with a counseling background.  Because of this advice, I focused more on counseling psych programs and had far more success.

    Gosh, I never even thought about this! I might reevaluate some of my school choices to include more counseling programs. Thanks for the info!


  4. 2 hours ago, topsailpsych said:

    I was applying to clinical programs with a master's in counseling which is an uphill battle due to some (real and perceived) differences in training models and emphasis of the training

    I'm curious about this. Was this explicitly stated by mentors/POIs? How were you able to overcome this bias? (I too have a masters in counseling, and not even counseling psych, but a CACREP counseling masters).


  5. 1 hour ago, PsychGo said:

    I've been accepted to PsyD programs at: The Wright Institute, Roosevelt University and Loyola University, Maryland

    Roosevelt and Loyola are definitely a "tier" above Wright. In general, I also dissuade folks from going to California schools unless they want to work in California - they don't have much of a "brand" outside of that state.


  6. Magoosh was really helpful for me on math. I'm the type that needs LOTS of practice and immediate, detailed feedback. Magoosh's program has a customizable "practice" mode where you get immediate feedback after each question, with both written and video explanations (helpful for those of us who prefer one way of learning to the other).

    I didn't study verbal so can't give much guidance there.


  7. Hey folks :)

    I technically didn't get rejected from all - got into three "safety" PsyD schools that would have cost about $200k to attend sooooo I said no thanks. For my funded programs, I got interviews for 3 and was ultimately rejected from all post-interview.

    I'm taking the next two years to work full-time in research. I have a master's in counseling (no research, just clinical practice), which was great for getting into the PsyD programs but horrible for getting into PhD programs. I should have beefed up my research experience more, but there's only so many hours in the day when you also have to be at practicum sites. I did the masters because I initially only wanted to do clinical practice (and my GPA was shit), but along the way found out (a little too late) I really love research.

    1 hour ago, Fabretti said:

    Also I had nearly four years with research experience and several poster presentations. I'm starting to think that it is more important to have some prior relationship with POIs.

    I'm in the same boat. I have ~3 years of research experience and 5 posters on my CV, but they were in areas that were unrelated to my POI's work and I made the mistake of not contacting POIs and networking before I applied. Going to interviews, it seemed like a lot of candidates had either collaborated with the POI's lab or they had met at previous conferences, etc. Of course, if two candidates are equal, they're probably going to choose the one they know and have interacted with. I'm going to definitely do more of this before I reapply.


  8. What state do you want to live in?

    If you plan to stay in NY, do not do NYU. You want an LCSW in NY State to get the best job prospects and salary. 

    In the Boston area, BC is extremely well respected. NEU is not far behind but their program seems to encourage folks to go on to doctoral program. 

    I'm not familiar enough with UMich to comment.


  9. 3 hours ago, krosstheboss said:

    I have been making my list for quite some time, and I am still looking for schools to add to my list. My sister is currently in a Counseling Psychology PhD program, so she has been a ton of help during this process! I have an excel sheet with all of the information I need; here is a brief version. Side note: these are all Counseling PhD programs.

    Just be aware that some of these programs you've listed require a masters degree for admissions (NEU and UMass Boston are the two that jump out at me). I'm not sure where you are in your academic journey, but just something to be aware of. One of my friends applied for several of these programs and was upset that she didn't notice this requirement beforehand.


  10. 7 hours ago, dmacfour said:

    What do you mean by "pretty damn high"? In my current masters program that means that you're doing a lot of mathematical proofs, but in my previous masters program that meant that you used calculus and linear algebra. I'm wondering if I need to take more proof based classes (like real analysis) to excel in a quant psych program. 

    You'll probably want to take advance calc, linear algebra, differential equations, combinatorics, and loooooots of probability/random variables/stats courses. Topics to get familiar with might include distribution functions (binomial, geometric, poisson, exponential, gamma, beta), conditional probability, Bayes, Chebyshev, LLN, CLT, nonparametric stats, ANOVAs, regressions, decision theory, large sample theory, asymptotic efficiency, sequential analysis.

    Some knowledge of programming languages (e.g. C++, Python) might also help.


  11. 14 minutes ago, Anvrchist said:

    + I was thinking of applying for a masters in mental health counseling and later if I decide to pursue a PhD in clinical psychology. Because I’m interested in wanting to assess and treat people. 

    If you're interested solely in providing psychotherapy as a treatment, then you can do all of that with only a masters :)

    I'm not sure what you mean by "assess" - masters level clinicians can diagnose, but some specific assessments (e.g. Rorschach, neuropsych batteries) can only be performed by doctoral-level psychologists with proper training.

    Also worth noting that many masters in "psychology" (unless they are specifically clinical psychology) are not license-eligible unless you take extra courses. Many of them are geared towards folks who need research experience and GPA boosters for doctoral applications. They will require a research project / thesis and may not include enough hours of internship to meet state licensing requirements as an LPC/LMHC.


  12. Sooooo. Who's ready to get a head start on next year? :D

    (Yes I know April 15th isn't quite here yet, but I've been going through GC withdrawal so I'm making this thread WAY in advance.)

    I was originally going to wait for 2 years before applying (to boost my research productivity), but I was just alerted that my grant-funded research coordinator position (which starts in June!) expires after 1 year and there is no guarantee there will be funding for a second year. Thankfully, it is a hyperproductive lab so I should be able to get some pubs before I need to leave (I'm already on a poster and I haven't even started work yet? lol...) I already have a ton of posters/presentations so I really just wanted more research experience in my area of interest.

    Anyways! Here's the list for fall 2020, a total of 10 schools :)

    • Boston College (Counseling PhD) -- POI: OMK
    • Boston University (Clinical PhD) -- POI: LB, TP
    • Drexel University (Clinical PhD, reapplicant) -- POI: AJ, EF, MB (you're supposed to choose 3 on the application)
    • Fordham University (Clinical PhD) -- POI: NB
    • Fordham University (Counseling PhD) -- POI: MK
    • Northeastern University (Counseling PhD, reapplicant) -- POI: RR, JEG
    • Suffolk University (Clinical PhD, reapplicant) -- POI: SR (maybe... she rejected me this round so idk if I'll try again), SS
    • UMass Boston (Clinical PhD) -- POI: LR
    • Virginia Commonwealth (Counseling PhD) -- POI: SM
    • William James (Clinical PsyD) -- safety school (got in last round but deferred offer, so would not need to reapply)
    • Yeshiva University (Clinical Health PhD) -- POI: CS

    This is, of course, assuming all the POIs are taking students next year.

    I'm geographically constrained a little bit b/c my fiance will be in med school next year (at least someone will be earning the big bucks in this family), and I'm not interested in doing a long-distance marriage that spans more than 3 state lines =P


  13. 10 hours ago, topsailpsych said:

    Last cycle I applied to 15, this cycle I applied to 14 (rejected from all last cycle, received 4 offers this cycle).

    I apologize for hijacking this thread, but this is seriously impressive. What did you do between cycles that helped your application? (And how many years in between cycles?)


  14. 7 hours ago, neurosoc said:

    Yes, that's one factor. Though since applicant quality varies, it's not a perfect one. I think another useful data point here is average GRE scores.

    As other posters stated, the biggest factor of admissions is research match and "fit". GRE scores are a useful first pass, but I would not name that as a marker of competitiveness at all.


  15. As an update for the folks who helped me (and for future applicants who may be in my situation): I got a full-time job as a research coordinator in an extremely productive lab at an amazing institution (which I frankly didn't think I had a shot at getting into). I'm honestly more excited about this "acceptance" than the three non-funded PsyD acceptances I had earlier this year, which really solidifies 1) the fact that I'm passionate about research, and 2) that I've made the right choice by declining offers and planning to reapply to PhD programs in a few years.

    Yaaaay :)


  16. My biggest lesson this cycle: don't be afraid to turn down offers and try again next year (or the next, or the next). It's not a race to the finish line. There is nothing wrong with working another couple of years and reapplying if that means you will have better opportunities and less debt. This cycle, I was so caught up in the anxiety of "I need to get my career started NOW" that I applied to mainly unfunded schools and some schools that were, erm... indiscriminate about the folks they admitted. For some folks, those schools might be good fits. For me, I was trying to hard to get my career launched ASAP that I overlooked a ton of schools that would have fit my needs and research interests better. I had several offers from great schools that I just couldn't afford or weren't a good match for my career interests, and had to turn down.

    And that's okay! I was talking to a friend the other day and she said this: I have a licensable master's. I could literally just keep applying every 2 years if I wanted the PhD that badly, until I got in. In the meantime, I can continue to get clinical and research experience. I don't need to take a giant step in the direction of my career - I can do it in baby steps if I need.


  17. 49 minutes ago, mochalattes said:

    I think the reason I'm worried about prestige at all is because the reputation does tend to speak somewhat for the quality of the program. School B's program has been around for much longer and they generally seem to ascribe themselves to more rigorous standards. Perhaps their prestige hints that it would be a higher quality program? I'm wondering though if that necessarily makes it a good reason to choose it. 

    You're not wrong. There is some connection between high prestige and a good quality program, but I don't necessarily think that the opposite is true (e.g. just because a program is not considered "prestigious" doesn't mean you'll get a poor quality experience). That said, I'd like to remind everyone of the lovely Pareto principle (where are my I/O folks when I need them) - 80% of results comes from 20% of the effort. Put simply in the context of a doctoral program (with the intent to practice) - all you need is "enough". You need your 2-3 years of practicum, your 1 year of APA internship, your 1 year of postdoc (or whatever postgrad hours are needed to get licensed in your state). The difference between a person who publishes 5 papers vs. the person who publishes 1 is practically negligible when it comes to hiring for practice. It doesn't matter if your lab was ranked 1st or ranked 30th - you got the research experience and the dissertation nonetheless. (If we're talking about a career in academia, all of this goes out the window, of course.) Keep in mind that everyone who finishes a program and passes the EPPP (not sure if school psych has another exam, I don't know the name) gets licensed. EVERYONE. Doesn't matter if you graduated from Harvard or from Oklahoma State. And as the years go on, if your intent is to stay in clinical practice, your education slowly becomes less and less important as you advance.

    It's inaccurate to say that prestige doesn't matter at all - because let's face it, we're human beings and there is an inherent to signal and to seek out signalling in others. However, I think that as you go deeper and deeper into clinical practice you'll learn that there are diminishing returns.

    You'll be in this program for 4 years. That's actually a pretty long time. Pick the one that you feel comfortable in :)

    55 minutes ago, Fantasmapocalypse said:

    My assumption has always been prestige of the school matters to administrators, bureaucrats, and the public... they don't have the expertise to judge programs so they go by 'brand names''.... to people in the know, I would imagine you are spot on. But it is one of those infernal things that inevitably seem to be the swing factor when to candidates are 'tied' or the hiring person is exhausted/incompetent and they go off arbitrary deciding factors... how many of us have been in those situations where it doesn't matter until it does, eh? 😕

    I think you underestimate the capability of hiring folks, haha. If anything, I think their lack of expertise actually works in your favour in the context of clinical practice. As I mentioned before, I don't have the time or the care to look at university names, lab names, PI names. I skim the resume and look for a job that looks similar to the one I'm hiring for. I'm hiring for a "school psychologist"? Well, better make sure this person mentions schools and psychology somewhere in their resume. You'll also find that a lot of the "first cut" goes through automatic keyword screeners first, and those automated programs definitely don't care what school you went to - they just want to know whether your degree matches and whether you have the license haha.

    As for administrators, bureaucrats, and the public, you have a point. Although that could work either for or against you. For example, in my field (eating disorders), here are some of the top schools: Drexel, Temple, Miami, FSU,  SUNY Albany, Michigan State. Here are some of the NOT top schools: Harvard, Yale, Columbia. So if you went to Drexel - great for hiring, sucks for public perception. If you went to Yale - sucks for hiring, great for public perception. At that point it's kind of a "pick your battle" - do you want to be well known in the inner circle of eating disorders, or do you want to signal to the public that you went to a prestigious school? Someone hiring at an ED treatment facility may be "in the know", but someone hiring at a community mental health agency may have no idea.

    As a P. S. -- I don't intend to give any "do this or die" advice in my replies, I'm just sharing some n=1 anecdotes in hopes that it sparks some conversation. Thanks :)


  18. 3 hours ago, paraent said:

    A recent study I read found that, controlling for everything else, prestige matters about twice as much as gender. Think about how much you think it matters for your career that you're a man rather than a woman, or vice versa. Prestige matters about twice as much as that. 

    I can't decide if this is being facetious or not.

    I have never once asked my therapists, doctors, pharmacists, or physical therapists where they graduated from. All I need to know is 1) do they have a license to practice, and 2) are they providing me good service. And that's for private practice folks. For people working in an agency, I don't even have a choice - I get assigned to them if I choose to use the agency's services! 

    For HR purposes, most of the time they're just screening to see that you graduated from a legitimate school. As long as the school doesn't raise any eyebrows (e.g. Argosy), any difference in prestige is going to be negligible (e.g. sure, Brown is more prestigious than Iowa State, but if Iowa State has better experiences, I'd hire them over Brown). The obvious caveat is if you're comparing something like Yale vs. University of the Incarnate Word [tried to pick a university y'all haven't heard of], then sure, maybe you have a marginal benefit in hiring, but any person doing hiring is going to look at more important things like your clinical skills, practicum experiences, and community involvement. 

    (Source: did hiring for a group practice and a community agency)

    Also, it all depends on where you want to practice and what you want to do with your degree. I'm going to assume by your choice of a PsyD instead of a PhD that you are primarily interested in clinical practice and not trying to climb the ladder in academia. If that's the case, prestige doesn't really matter. Just make sure it's not a diploma mill. Choose the program that you feel most comfortable in and will get you the best opportunities for clinical practica/internship. So check the match rates, and ask the training directors what kind of placements students tend to get. For example, if you want to work with disadvantaged populations as a career but School X tends to only place students in high SES private schools for training, then does that really align with your values and the kind of experience you want?

    1 hour ago, Psyhopeful said:

    If it’s specific to where you get your PhD, does it say anything about the prestige of the school versus the prestige of the program. For example a prestigious school that is not known for or top ranked a particular program. In the field of study, maybe program tops school, but outside of that field, saying you went to the prestigious school could carry more weight?

    To be completely honest, outside of academia (including academic teaching hospitals and research careers) no one really knows what the "prestige of a program" is. I worked in a large urban city at a large community agency that regularly hired psychologists and masters level clinicians. Our specialty was dual dx. When someone submits their application, I don't say, "Oh wow, they graduated from Colorado State University, I know there's a great lab there that does work on substance use disorders. That's much more relevant to the job that these two who graduated from Columbia and UChicago, I'd better hire the ColoState person!" Frankly, I don't even know what universities have strong research labs / training in substance use, nor do I really care. I look at the applicant's resume and skim for ANY experience working with substance use. If UChicago happens to have worked in 3 addictions treatment facilities and ColoState only worked in school-based settings, guess who I'm hiring, regardless of the "prestige" of their program or school?


  19. Regarding #3 - the point of getting a masters before doctoral is to 1) boost your GPA, or 2) get research experiences. Since you don't have a lot of research experience, you should choose the program that offers you the most opportunities to get that. It might mean doing a masters thesis, or having formal research mentorship with a professor, or cross-collaboration opportunities with other labs or departments.


  20. Tried using the search function but my query was way too broad.

    What are people's thoughts about applying to two programs at the same school, e.g. Clinical Psychology AND Counseling Psychology programs? There are research mentors in both departments that match my interests and I'd be happy to be accepted to either, but don't want to shoot myself in the foot with both programs by crossing some unspoken boundary.


  21. 1 minute ago, researchassistant said:

    School: Yeshiva University

    Concentration: Clinical

    Type: PsyD

    Date of acceptance:  2/7/2019

    Notified by: Phone call from POI the night of my interview!

    Interview Invites (5/7) -- Yeshiva University, University of Denver, LIU Post, William James College, Nova Southeastern University 
    Declined Interview (2/7) -- George Washington University, Roosevelt University
    Withdrew (canceled interviews after accepting Yeshiva’s offer) (2/7– University of Denver, LIU Post

    Accepted (3/3 Yeshiva University, William James College, Nova Southeastern University

    ATTENDING: Ferkauf Graduate School of Psychology, Yeshiva University, Albert Einstein College of Medicine

    Yaaay, congrats on making your decision! 

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