dancedementia
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Posts posted by dancedementia
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23 hours ago, buttercup8d said:
Thanks, I'm curious. Can you clarify what you mean by "higher order" problems? Is there an underlying assumption in the tradition that individuals (i.e. low SES, disenfranchised minorities) who struggle with basic needs/immediate problems in their lives are not capable of philosophical thinking?
No, not at all. Think of it as a Maslow's hierarchy problem - if I'm an alcohol addicted, lower SES, unemployed single mother, my first line of needs would probably be to get my symptoms under control so that I can hold down a job, can put food on the table, and can be a nurturing mother. Of course everyone - regardless of SES or background - deserves and has capability to deeply explore ideas of self-actualization, legacy, etc. But for those individuals you mentioned, that is not their immediate need (and most likely not the reason they are seeking and/or referred to therapy). They would be much better served by approaches such as CBT/DBT or systems-based theory rather than the typical psychoanalytic approach.
Another tidbit that might help you understand is that a lot of psychodynamic-trained therapists hate diagnosing patients. My clinicians in particular dislike assigning ICD codes from the DSM because they don't like labelling individuals with a "disorder" that needs to be "fixed". In that way, psychoanalytics is really quite the opposite of the medical model; I would also argue that it harmonizes quite well with the newer, popular "holistic" models that focus on 1) treating the whole person and not just the disorder, 2) a wellness model of mental health.
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I'm going to offer a different perspective here. I work in a private practice office with a group of psychodynamically-trained psychologists, and damn - they are good at what they do.
It also seems like psychodynamically trained clinicians are very focused on pathologizing their clients and even validating the pathology in their research topics.
I can't speak to how the research sphere is in psychoanalytic/psychodynamic circles, but in practice that couldn't be further from the truth. In fact, a lot of psychodynamically-trained clinicians dislike CBT/behavioral-trained clinicians because they are always "searching for a solution". Simply put, they state that theories like CBT focus on altering cognitions/behaviors, on fixing symptoms, and on changing things... whereas psychodynamics focuses more on understanding the underlying person. Yes, along the way psychodynamics can offer solutions, but the reason for utilizing a psychoanalytic approach usually stems from a more "philosophical" desire. Instead of, "How can I reduce my anxiety symptoms?", the psychodynamic approach addresses, "I'm feeling anxious. Why?"
I don't think either approach is better than the other, but as someone who does highly respect the historical underpinnings of psychology, I think the psychodynamic/psychoanalytic approach is useful for certian clients. In my practice's case, most of our clients are middle/upper class, white adults who are wrestling with "higher order" problems - things like anxiety, adjustment disorders, personality disorders, etc. For people who are coming in saying, "I feel uncomfortable with my life, but I can't really pin down why," the psychodynamic approach is perfect for them. It allows them to explore, to address past memories and emotions, to view how that has shaped their lives. It allows them to - in the previous example - figure out the underlying cause of their anxiety, to sit with that discomfort to gain further insight, instead of focusing primarily on techniques to reduce it.
For people who are coming in with debilitating depression, alcohol abuse, and uncontrollable fits of anger.... yeah, CBT would probably be better. These are people who do need to work on their cognitions and behaviors. These are not the people who need to delve into the philosophical, unconscious points of their lives. They need fixes.
So really, different theories for different patients.
Now research, I have no idea, lol......
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Hi everyone. Finally getting back into the game. For those of you who don't know, I started a masters program in Clinical Mental Health Counseling but had to leave due to the HORRENDOUS cost of tuition (and my financial hardship). I'm reapplying to programs in my home state this year (e.g. cheaper tuition by fivefold, more scholarship opportunities, able to live with my long-term boyfriend to save money).
- Texas State University, M.A. in Professional Counseling
- University of Houston, M.Ed in Counseling
Houston is my first choice, as they also have a great PhD program that I'm trying to schmooze my way in
plus, I love the city. Fingers crossed! The application deadline is mid-February for both programs, so I know it's irrational to want an answer so soon, but damn it, I am anxious! xD
@JacobW83, you're where I want to be in a few years, applying to PhD programs! Good luck, and let us know how the UH interview goes!
EDIT: Wow, lots of southerners in this thread
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DELETED, posted in wrong thread!
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I'm not sure you're clear on what a "terminal masters" is....
Most "terminal" programs mean you can start practicing as a licensed worker after you graduate (and do your post-grad hours). Things like MSW and CACREP-accredited counseling programs.
Since you want to go for a PsyD, are you looking for an experimental masters?
I know for certain that UTSA's MA Psychology is NOT terminal. It is a prep program for PhD admissions because it focuses ENTIRELY on research.
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On 10/26/2016 at 4:51 PM, clinicialpsych1979 said:
This is a tough decision. A masters degree in clinical mental health counseling will give you around 0 research experience. So, that means if you do the counseling program for 3 years, with no added research, you will be 3 years out of research. I honestly don't know what PhD programs will think about that. Maybe you can reach out to some Counseling Psych PhD programs and ask for some guidance? I would also really think about your end goal: research or clinical? Why do you want a PhD? Counseling is a great field. There are a lot of restrictions though. I would also look into Social Work programs that have a clinical route. It all depends on where you want to work one day. Hospital? Most hospitals you need a PhD or social work license. Community agency or private practice? You can work at those with any of the masters/PhD degrees.
University counseling center is the end goal. PhD in Counseling Psychology is more or less required (with LCSW a close second, but the amount of clinical practice done in social work programs is simply not the same. I have the option to do research in my masters program, so I wouldn't be 3 years out of research - I would take a thesis option and already have research arrangements outside of the program. I'm just afraid that taking the clinical masters would be poor signaling to the admissions committee.
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15 hours ago, clinicialpsych1979 said:
If your end goal is a PhD in Counseling Psychology, always remember that a PhD is a research degree. Your chances of being accepted into a credible PhD program without research experience are minimal. A masters degree in clinical mental counseling is AMAZING, if all you want to do is clinical work. But getting the masters in counseling just because you want a fall back plan...? It won't help you get into a PhD program. I can give this advice because I have been there-- I have the masters degree in clinical mental health counseling. I had to leave the field and focus on research before even thinking about applying to PhD psychology programs. (I got in, am in my 3rd year.) But I guarantee you I would have not gotten in with only a counseling degree. The field is way too competitive, and you are up against people with a lot of research experience. If you want the PhD, I would recommend that experimental masters degree.
The thing is, I have pretty good research experience already. Nearly 5 years of part-time volunteer research spread across 4 labs, 5 posters in the last year alone, a symposium at APA, one paper submitted for pub (no idea when that's going to happen though). The only thing going against me is my TERRIBLE undergraduate GPA (3.0), which I am hoping the masters will help raise. Given this information, would you still recommend a research-focused masters?
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End goal is PhD in Counseling Psychology.
Have some offers (spring start) for a Masters in Experimental Psychology (e.g. research only, no clinical training) and a Masters in Clinical Mental Health Counseling (e.g. would lead to LPC/LMHC credential).
I hear people say that research prep is best for grad school, but... personally I'd like a fallback plan (LPC/LMHC) in case the doctoral program never works out haha.
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On 10/1/2016 at 7:40 PM, St0chastic said:
Make sure you explain your underwhelming early academic performance in your SOP
I'm honestly not too sure how to do this. The harsh truth is that I switched majors one too many times and was frankly too unfocused to pay attention to my schoolwork, preferring to spend my time in the gym and playing video games. It's hard to spin that one positively, haha. Any tips?
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On 10/3/2016 at 2:26 PM, gradapps said:
Can you give any advice on the statement of purpose/the interview process for mental health counseling programs? I'm considering BU but overall am struggling with being able to coherently express answers to questions such as why I chose the particular program, what I would like least about it, or my major strengths and weaknesses in relation to being a prospective counsellor.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I simply feel like no answer I can come up with is good enough. Thanks!
There's not really much to say except - speak from the heart. It's very obvious when someone is just trying to tell the interviewer what they think sounds like the correct answer, versus someone who really believes in a cause. If you want to send me your SOP I can look over it too, or send you mine for reference. In terms of strengths and weaknesses, I think BU's program really respects and admires someone who can be introspective about their flaws on a deeper level.
Example (a question actually asked in interview): What challenges and struggles do you anticipate facing as a therapist?
Okay answer: I haven't experienced true hardship in my life. While I have stood beside friends who have struggled, I myself have not experienced the death of a loved one, a major loss, health problems, etc. In that way, I am very fortunate and grateful, but I do worry that sometimes it may impact my ability to be an effective and empathetic counselor.
Not so good answer: I focus too much on solving problems. I'm very Type A, so I'm worried that when an individual comes in for therapy, I'll immediately jump to wanting to diagnose and "solve" their issue instead of taking the time to listen to them [note: while this is a genuine answer, it's one I hear a lot and it sounds absolutely canned]
Good answer: I realize that we're all coloured by biases and experiences, be it from systemic racism, or cultural differences, or simply in the hardships that we faced growing up. I fear that, when I am given the responsibility of treating another individual, I may subconsciously make remarks or actions that are insensitive. For example, I grew up with parents who were depressed, anxious, and fielded a number of addictions. I myself was diagnosed with bipolar disorder at a young age. When I see clients with these exact same symptoms, despite my best efforts, I know that I will view them through a different lens than full objectivity. I want to learn how to be okay with those lenses and utilize them advantageously, not detrimentally.While BU's program is hosted in the school of medicine, they actually take a very holistic, wellness, and systems-based approach to counseling, and they seem to select their class based on this. (For example, it's always the "client", not the "patient").
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Research research research! Depending on the kind of masters you're pursuing, the focus might be largely on clinical/applied work. Make sure to get some research work done as well! Sometimes this may involve you going outside of your program/department/college, but since a PhD degree is largely about publishing or perishing (or so I'm told
), you should aim to get at least some presentations under your belt, if not publications.
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bumping~
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Long story short - I am on leave of absence from a CACREP masters in clinical mental health counseling program. The tuition/cost of living got too much for me.
I'm highly considering not finishing the masters program and just applying straightaway for PhD programs this fall, but I don't know if my application is enough to make me competitive... can anyone offer some advice? I'm 2 years out from finishing the masters, and while I don't have any qualms about doing that, my end goal has always been a PhD in Counseling Psychology, so I figured why take the long winding road when there's opportunities to take the shorter one...
Undergraduate GPA: 3.0 (double major Economics and Management)
Second bachelor's GPA: 4.0 (major in Psychology)
Master's GPA (thus far): 3.9 (damn you, A-minus!)
GRE scores: 164 V, 163 M, 6.0 AW, no psych GRE yet
Letters of rec: 3 from research supervisors, 1 from psychology professor
Statement of purpose: feedback has generally said that it's good
Research interest: college mental health, adjustment, coping skills, socioeconomic etiology of anxiety disorders (all very counseling psych oriented stuff)Research experience:
- 3 years, behavioral marketing at top tier research school
- 1 year, health psychology at government agency
- 1 year, counseling psychology at top tier research school
- 6 months, social psychology at in-state school
- will be starting another project next month at top tier research school
Publications/presentations:
- No publications, and also no hope of one before application
- 2 posters at state psychology conferences
- 2 roundtables at national conferences
- 1 poster at APA
- should be presenting another 2-3 posters this fall, waiting on responses from conferences but the outlook is good
Work experience:
- All unrelated to psychology, as I previously worked in the business world
- 1 year in management consulting
- 1 year in public relations/marketing
- several temporary/odd jobs in customer service and administrative assisting
Schools applying to (hoping to stay in state):
- University of Houston, PhD Counseling (**dream school**, reach)
- University of Texas Austin, PhD Counseling (reach)
- Baylor, PsyD Clinical (huge reach)
- University of North Texas, PhD Counseling (reach)
- Texas Tech, PhD Counseling (target)
- Texas A&M, PhD Counseling (target)
- University of Houston-Clear Lake, PsyD (target, not APA accredited yet though!!)
- UT Southwestern, PhD Clinical (reach, not a top choice)
- Sam Houston State, PhD Clinical (target, not a top choice)
Let me know if there's any information missing!
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So I'm currently in my last year of a mental health counseling masters program. I don't expect to get into a doctoral program this year, but I'm applying as sort of a "trial run". If I get in, great! If not, no worries. I'll work towards my LMHC, do some research on the side, and reapply in a few years. I'm looking exclusively at PsyD programs, but not at the for-profit colleges (Argosy, etc.) It should be an interesting ride....
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5 hours ago, rising_star said:
I would go to higheredjobs.com and look at the job ads for academic advisors, career counselors, etc. and see what degrees they are specifically interested in. That would be more helpful to you than asking as bunch of strangers on the internet.
Unfortunately, a majority of them do the beat-around-the-bush thing:
"Prefer master's degree in Counseling, Higher Education, Education, or related field...."
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Hey there! I'm trying to get a position as an academic or career counselor in a university setting. Do you think a masters in Higher Education or a masters in Counseling would be most useful? Most masters in Counseling focus on the mental health aspect vs. the vocational/career counseling aspect (at most, there is one class and maybe a practicum opportunity). However, I feel Higher Ed masters focus more on the administrative and policy aspects. Neither are a perfect fit, but do you know which might look better? (Alternatively, I could try for a dual-masters, haha!)
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Not necessarily more interesting, but being able to recruit appropriate sample sizes is a big deal. For example, I landed a research position at McLean Hospital and wanted to do research based on socioeconomic stressors and BPD. They point blank told me that it would be impossible; McLean's patients are 90% white, upper-middle class. I imagine if you're at a university in the middle of a town with 70% older adult population, then infant PTSD is probably not going to be popular at your institution for the sheer fact that you can't recruit participants for clinical trials. I know that BU, for example, does a lot of stuff around multiculturalism, trauma, and addictions because they're partnered with several hospitals in some of the most diverse and less well off areas of town. Whereas you look at look at Harvard and they're partnered with McLean and doing studies on things like personality disorders and anxiety.
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@laurjorg I have two friends who are in SED's program, if you PM me your email I can get you connected! I was in the School of Med program and it was pretty comparable in terms of coursework. The profs in SED are super super nice and there are tons of opportunities to do research if that's your thing (I worked with two of their labs and I wasn't even a student in their program haha). Boston is one of the best cities to do practicum/internship because there are just so. many. providers, spanning the entire spectrum. What kind of site/population do you want to work with? I can give you tons of recommendations for that too.
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Which BU counseling program? The School of Education one or the School of Medicine one?
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Professional Counseling (sometimes Community Counseling) was the designation that CACREP used to use, so a lot of program called it that for a time. They recently passed some legislature (2009, I think?) that requires all CACREP approved programs to switch to the "Clinical Mental Health Counseling" moniker. Some accredited programs have been slow to switch, and unaccredited programs don't NEED to switch, so that's where you see the disparity. The coursework is largely the same, although the perspective might be different (CMHC programs might emphasize pathology more).
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I do research in two of BU's Counseling Psychology labs and am friends with a few of the doctoral students. Can't speak for the classes, but the professors are AMAZING. Everyone is very willing to help, pushes you to publish and actively encourages you. Super open minded, lots of room for you to explore your own ideas (there's not a lot of "here let me assign you a project" going on). The practicum sites in the Boston area are unparalleled - one of my friends is at the Center for Anxiety and Related Disorders; another is at Mclean. These are top institutions with superb training. Who's your POI?
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Does anyone know much about this university? They offer a PsyD program that I was considering, but it seems to be a very small, very niche university (heavy emphasis on family/social systems perspective). Personally, I'm worried about match statistics (67% match in 2013 according to Insiders Guide). However, given my stats and geographical limitations, it might be one of the few options for a doctoral degree :/ Thoughts?
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I think also, depending on the terms of your loans over the years, you're still going to be paying a TON in compounding interest....
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On 4/6/2016 at 0:34 PM, Denominator said:
I've been accepted to UT-Austin and UWisc-Madison. Waiting (not so patiently) for Wisconsin to finalize my funding. Hoping that's where I end up.
Which dept at UT Austin? I'm thinking of applying there for Ed.D in the future.
Fall 2017 Counseling Psychology Applicants
in Psychology Forum
Posted · Edited by dancedementia
I had a very specific reason for going into counseling psychology over clinical psychology - I wanted to work in university counseling centers, which are well known for preferring counseling psychologists over clinical psychologists (don't ask me why). In terms of the diversity approach, more and more clinical psych programs are also emphasizing that, so I don't see it as a particularly compelling reason to choose one over the other. I do think that research interests play into the choice - most of the well-known clinical psych programs in my state focus research on neuropsych, clinical disorders, etc. whereas the counseling psych programs explore questions that have more of a social psych and/or systems background as well; the outcome for clinical psych research seems to be geared towards health applications whereas counseling psych research seems more suited for understanding populations. This is, of course, a very narrow sample size focusing on my state's programs specifically, but this is the general feel I get.