Apogeee
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Posts posted by Apogeee
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12 hours ago, sacklunch said:
My (limited) experience suggests that these issues are not part of the normal discourse in classics/classical studies departments.
In religious studies, however, they are always looming, as many translation projects are aimed at 'common' folk (viz. non-academic) who deem these texts sacred.
What's the background of somebody interested in reading, say Cicero or Plutarch, in English? I would imagine such a person is quite different than the average person interested in a 'fresh' translation of a work by Augustine or Jerome.
In the program where I am now, attention to the meaning and Latinity is highly important, although our Latin work doesn't involve much, if any, translation to English - it's all in Latin. In our Greek translation work, we pay careful attention to fidelity to the text, whether we are translating Greek to Latin or Greek to English, or any other language.
To the second point I quoted, very often, when you read any translation of, say, the Bible, you find that words and ideas are taken so far out of their original cultural context as not to serve the meaning they had at the time they were originally written.
To the third point I quoted, I am sure that it is a very specialized audience who wants to read Augustine or Jerome, and a much wider audience who would want to read Cicero or Plutarch. Would that change someone's translation, do you suppose?
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12 hours ago, rjyjate said:
I'm an archaeologist, so this is definitely not my area of expertise, but I think I agree with heliogabalus. What are you defining as a "faithful" translation? Sometimes (especially in literary texts) sticking too closely to a word-for-word translation loses the tone or feeling of the text, which you could argue makes it less "faithful" despite being a more literal translation.
If we have tried to attempt "word for word" then it will be no translation at all, except for a really small area where the two languages happen to overlap in idiom. A faithful translation, to me, gets at "idea for idea" while maintaining the integrity, and where possible, the structure of the original. Mars puellam amat. "Mars loves the girl" is faithful. "Mars fell in love with the girl" is not. "Mars thought she was hot" isn't a translation: it becomes a derivative work, to my mind.
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4 hours ago, heliogabalus said:
Since most translations of Classical texts are of literary texts, then accuracy and efficiency are probably not the most important goals. At least they aren't to me or the other translators I know. Power and beauty are as important as fidelity.
Ouch. I think if it's not a faithful rendering, then that makes it a derivative work, not a translation. Am I off base here?
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4 hours ago, heliogabalus said:
would it be better to spend your time translating the Chronica Boemorum into English since nobody has (well finally one person did) instead of Tacitus?
Is there room for more works from different eras? Do classicists have to choose one era over the other?
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8 hours ago, historicallinguist said:
What do you mean by "our patrimony"?
By "our patrimony" I mean the extant Latin literature from the last 2500 years. Didn't I post this in Classics? Sorry if I misfiled it.
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1 hour ago, ciistai said:
Does anyone have advice for me on this very difficult email I have to send? How long should it be? How regretful? Individual emails or should I copy each faculty member I met on the same email?
Just as you sent your thank-you notes to all of the professors who wrote letters of recommendation just after you sent your applications, send a brief thank-you note to each faculty member who spent time with you, right after the intereview. If you did not send those thank-you notes already, send one to each now along with your regrets. If you did send your thank-you notes immediately after the interview, it is appropriate to send one email to the DGS with your regrets. Keep it short and positive. (3-4 sentences is sufficient.) In the note, thank the department for their time and interest, express that you appreciate their offer, and mention that you have decided to enroll in a different program, although it was a difficult decision for you. If you are feeling especially like thanking everyone a second time, send them a personalized version of the note you send to the DGS with your regrets, reiterating your thanks for the time they spent with you. I think it is wonderful that you want to balance a healthy respect for their time having to deal with email, with your reasonable desire to thank them a second time and let them know what you decided. Even if a second thank-you is not precisely dictated by good manners, it isn't completely out of line, either.
Just my opinion, having been the writer of recommendations for a dozen or so years.
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7 hours ago, LtnLvr said:
Hey - does anyone know what is going on with NYU? I haven't heard from them since they wrote to everyone in January saying they would be in touch for a Skype interview if they were interested. I guess they just send out late rejections? Probably coming today or next week...
Well, they are on Spring break now.
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1 minute ago, FY5913 said:
Yes, it is. A MS wouldn't let me be a PI on studies or later go into academia ...
In that case, I would find a trusted advisor who is familiar with the admissions committee decision process in your field, and ask for help creating a specific plan of action. Is there such a person you trust? I would try to have this conversation in person, if that is possible.
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2 minutes ago, morpheus said:
It sounds like this person wants to do research (focusing on molecular mechanisms and immunology) so in this case it is necessary :/
Ah. It looked to me like they were able to do research in the oncology lab. I was wondering if more of that is possible.
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On 3/17/2016 at 11:07 AM, franc109 said:
Do I have a chance at an interview at this point?
I am in a waiting situation too, and I feel that, with each day that passes, my chances are receding. What would you do if you don't get the interview you want? Maybe you can start on that work now. Doing so seems like it could only help you when you do get an interview (without knowing what your plans are).
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1 hour ago, FY5913 said:
So at this point, it appears that I'm not going to be accepted into a Ph.D. program this year (0a/0w/3r/6). I know that my application was weak and that there are areas for improvement, so I'm starting to think about Plan B.
Is this PhD absolutely required for the type of work you want to do in your field? Are there other avenues to doing the sort of work you envision? What is the rate of placement/hiring for those who obtain the PhD in this field? Will the degree in biology that you are considering help you with the ultimate goal of being able to do the work, or is it just a way to beef up your application?
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12 hours ago, Petros said:
While we're on the subject: Classics’ elitism should be lost in translation
I do think that when we limit ourselves to only what happened before 200 AD or so, we are pandering to that elitism, because everyone has to scramble for some new angle, and keep others from finding out before we can eke out a publication. Maybe that's not a good way for me to be looking at the issue.
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26 minutes ago, rjyjate said:
I just got off the waitlist at UNC! Massive thanks to whoever turned them down.
That sounds so funny, but I know what you mean!
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I think that there is a case for each generation to interact with the material from our patrimony, so I think that is at least one reason why new translations are a good idea. While Latin isn't really changing, vernacular languages certainly are. English is not the same as it was ten, twenty, fifty, three-hundred years ago.
What do you think?
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If you have chosen to cleave to one language over another, are you a Hellenist or a Latinist? It's perfectly okay to be either, or both. I am just wondering what people here think.
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1 hour ago, heliogabalus said:
Well, that's horrific...
Apparently he was in charge of the program. How much jail time will this evil man get? Who is taking his place in the department?
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2 hours ago, tesolin4languages said:
But do you have any knowledge on whether SLA is "inferior" to Teaching and Curriculum?
I don't think you can call one inferior to another. Is a Pure Math degree inferior to Physics? They are different. A degree in Teaching and Curriculum is good for someone with at least 5 years of teaching experience in public schools. SLA is going to be discussing the nuts and bolts of that theory, which is relatively new. Teaching and Curriculum is going to get you involved with designing and evaluating curriculum and its implementation. And it is possible to find a marriage of the two, if you look carefully. You have about 8 months before you start submitting applications to do a lot of this research.
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6 minutes ago, tesolin4languages said:
I have not taken the GRE yet.
I don't know what or how I should decide on PhD specializations: Second Language Acquisition (SLA) or Teaching and Curriculum.
One side says that T&C is more broad and allows for more career opportunities; however, if not researching what I'm interested in (SLA) I might become upset.Take the GRE. It's a pain, but it's not really hard. Just annoying and expensive. Also, write to some of the programs where you are interested and make an appointment for a visit. Talk it over with the people you would be working with - visit both types of programs.
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I know people with two MAs in the same field. As to whether or not that improves your chances, I cannot really say. I have been very happy with the responses I have gotten during this admissions cycle, but I have heard that it is not always just or fair. Some people get in and some don't, and even very knowledgeable professors are sometimes at a loss as to the thinking of the committee that has rejected them. If you learned from the situation in which you got the B, you can address that in a carefully crafted statement of purpose (don't allude to the grade itself, but discuss what you learned in the process of meeting challenges, for example, and how this makes you a strong candidate for the target institution.)
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1 hour ago, undergrad_2015 said:
Thank you for your reply. I was hoping the prof would provide some hint about whether that 25% assignment was good or bad, so then I can decide whether to drop or not. I don't find the class challenging, just that I'm not confident in my assignments and how they are assessed. The assignments did not have any rubrics.
If "what is the grade I earned on my paper" is the question you want to ask the professor, then ask that question. The professor isn't a mindreader. "Can it be guaranteed?" No. Nothing in school is guaranteed until you get it in writing. If you are given an assignment without a rubric, then it is up to you to do your absolute best, and spend as much time as you possibly can to do it well. If you are not confident in the way you are doing the assignments, you could hire a tutor, or you could spend more time on them. By being so frugal with information about this issue with the people who are trying to help, you present yourself as someone who is unwilling to work hard for what you earn. This may not be the case, but that is the presentation. It seems that you are still in a high school mindset, where the teacher is supposed to tell you exactly what you must do, provide rubrics so that you can work within that framework just as hard as it takes to get the grade you are aiming for on that assignment, then you regurgitate the assignment - and then you get handed a grade. That's not the way school is supposed to work, and it is not the way graduate school will work. You have to work much harder than the professor if you want to learn all you can. That's just reality. Look at the syllabus again. What are the course goals? Are you there yet in the course goals? What do you have to do to get yourself there?
If the course is not challenging, then you would have earned all the possible points on the assignments. You should re-examine your thinking on what "challenging" means.
- Solio, ajak568 and St Andrews Lynx
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On 3/2/2016 at 10:18 PM, undergrad_2015 said:
Thank you for your reply. I'm still confused about what the prof said. What articles should I find then if I can't make assumptions about what the study is going to show? Do I find something more broad?
You should make an appointment with the professor and ask for this help specifically. You must read widely in your field, including the bibliography that is used by others who are writing. Of course you can't make assumptions about what a study will show. That's why you do a study: to find out what it will show. You will get more information if you post this in a thread that relates to your field and to the kind of work you are attempting.
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What do you want the professor to tell you? What, exactly, are you hoping to get from the professor? The professor's job is to help you to learn how to think critically about the course content. Your academic advisor can give you academic advice regarding what courses to drop or not, and you should make an appointment with that person if you are unable to decide on your own what you should do next. They will know how you are doing in the course because you will tell them how you are doing. Is this a graduate course? If so, you should be meeting with your advisor on a regular basis. If it's an undergraduate course, you're in the wrong place but you have been given good advice here and by your professor.
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5 hours ago, t.lamonty said:
Hey, I am preparing now for passing my PhD...it is a good idea to use such services?
Thanks, in advance!
What do you mean by Passing your PhD? It seems like someone is just sending you a spammy link.
- futureformba, rivergirl2 and sjoh197
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Is there a case for new translations?
in Classics
Posted
I think you can have phenomenal scholarly work, and you can have phenomenal literary work, but a literary translation not done by a scholar is going to be missing substantially more (and worth significantly less) than a scholarly work not done by a "writer". "How does this sound in English" should be, in my opinion, a significant consideration of anyone who is trying to render someone else's ideas into English! But "what did the original author actually say?" has to get at least equal weight. The movie "Troy", for example, is not a movie version of the Iliad. It's a derivative work: another story that covers some of the same ground covered in the Iliad. Such is a work that doesn't cleave closely to the original author's intended meaning - just another telling of a similar story, but not a translation, in my opinion.
Fun conversation everyone. Thanks!