[Transfer PhD Program or Remain]

On 1/11/2022 at 8:36 AM, beyondthestream said:

Hi everyone. I began my PhD program this past Fall at what is a top four ranked program in my 'general' field of study within Philosophy. I was not accepted at the other top two programs I was interested in. I thought things would go well, because the program initially showed a great deal of interest in the specific areas I am interested in, but unfortunately this has not been the case. Without going into too much detail for reasons of discretion, this program has essentially stopped offering many courses that are in my specific area as they did in the past and many of the professors who have remained in the department are very inflexible. I have just enough allies to form a dissertation committee, but so far it feels like a constant uphill battle. When I presented an idea for a final paper to a professor, I received the response "that cannot count as Philosophy," despite the fact that the idea was analogous to the paper I wrote as my writing sample and would fit easily at the other two departments I did not get into. I've had professors in other classes treat my ideas as a distraction, or inapplicable, when I know they are major themes at other departments. Furthermore, I've noticed the students here tend to re-affirm what the department imposes on them as opposed to creating their own projects. It's staggering to me how many upper year students seem to be writing dissertations that could have been written by their professors in the 50s-80s. Personally, I know what my interests are and I continue to educated myself outside of my courses and I do not plan to acquiesce to this structure where the professors essentially impose what they want students to study onto them. I know that I will write my dissertation on what I am interested in, but I am wondering if, down the road, it will be a significant liability that I have essentially had to 'self-teach' these topics to me because my institution is not displaying the interest in the topics it initially did. Would it be advisable to try transferring to one of the other two schools? I am worried about burning bridges in the process, and I am not sure they would accept me given they did not in the past, but I am trying to gauge if it would be worth a shot to do so after I finish my MA at my current program.  What it comes down to for me is if it is worth it to simply 'swim against the grain' at my program for 6 years or if it would be more advisable for career reasons to try to transfer sooner rather than later. 

Thank you in advance for the advice. 

I think it depends. What you've written is a little vague, but I gather that you have people that you can work with. That's the most important thing--that you have a good, supportive advisor, and can put together a committee.

You're also in your first year. Things may change. Your interests could evolve. You probably don't know all the faculty in your department yet. You've barely started your program. My advice is to give it some time before thinking about jumping ship.

Whatever programs you're thinking about trying to transfer to will have other issues. Every program does to some extent. Make sure that whatever issues your program has are really going to be a problem before you spend a lot of money and time starting over somewhere else.

[BA vs MA applicants]

On 1/17/2022 at 6:51 AM, UndergradDad said:

Does anyone have any idea how many of the Phd applicants each year are MA vs BA? I’ve never seen any stats on this because it would be tough to get the data to calculate but does anyone have any good guesses?

My guess is this might vary by department and application year, but I've heard anecdotally that more students are going into PhD programs with an MA than in the past. It's so competitive that it makes sense. I'm a few years into my PhD at a mid-ranked program. For whatever it's worth: my cohort at my program has 7 students. All but one came in with a master's. The year after me has 4 students. Two have previous graduate work. The first year cohort has 5 students, 4 have an MA. The cohort in front of me has 5 students, two of whom have an MA.

At my program, then, it's more common than not.

[Explaining bad semesters?]

4 hours ago, Olórin said:

1. Transcripts typically play a stronger role at the beginning of evaluating an application, not in the later stage of evaluation.

2. Your application would look better without the rough semesters. There is no denying that. However, you are in a stronger position than you realize, because you have attended a master's program and have demonstrated your capacity to succeed in philosophy. That fact will reduce an admission committee's concerns.

3. If you are sure that you want to say something about it, ask one of your letter writers to address it in their recommendation. "DisplayName_1 informed me about two rough semesters from a time before deciding to pursue philosophy. I assure you these semesters are not representative of current academic ability and performance. blah blah."

I agree with all of this. Your MA helps demonstrate that you can succeed in doing academic philosophy, and getting your letter writers to explain your bad semesters is the right strategy. Black marks like this on your transcript aren't ideal, but they won't necessarily sink your application, especially provided that you have a strong writing sample and good recommendations. So make sure your sample is as strong as it can possibly be!

[Anyone know about Stonybrook?]

On 10/13/2021 at 6:27 AM, UndergradDad said:

Thank you, that’s helpful to know!

I would email some current students there, and find out how long it generally takes students to get to ABD status and how long it takes them to finish. How involved are the coursework requirements? Are there qualifying exams? Does anyone finish in four years? Only four years of guaranteed funding is probably not enough regardless, but it would be good to find out from current students how they make it work, if they're able to. Is it just that students aren't guaranteed funding after 4 years, but can usually get it, or is it the case that students pretty much always just have to go adjunct for a year or two while they finish dissertating? I would find out from current students the answers to these questions and go from there.

[Philosophy M.A. admissions statistics]

On 10/12/2021 at 11:44 AM, John2 said:

The NYU scholarship can be anything from very little to full tuition remission.

 

On 10/15/2021 at 10:39 AM, Duns Eith said:

This is something I had no idea would be true. This, as with other programs, (I think U Chicago comes to mind?) do see the program as cash-cow in function. The fact that they have a scholarship converts my advice from a strict prohibition to a "probably a bad idea." Where probably is almost solely determined by the likelihood of that scholarship.

I'm going to say something stronger here: even if NYU gives you a full tuition remission (something which I very much doubt!), it's still not worth going, for two reasons.

First, NYU is in in Manhattan. NY is an expensive town. Even if you live in a cheaper area of the city and commute, you'll still be borrowing a significant amount for living expenses.

Secondly, and most importantly, the MA isn't going to set you up to be successful with PhD admissions. Just for kicks, I emailed NYU and asked for their placement record. They told me that they didn't have that data. Either they're lying, which would have to be because their admissions record is so bad they don't want anyone to know about it, or they don't care enough about how their MA students do in admissions to bother tracking it. Either way, this doesn't look exactly speak well to their program.

Could you go to NYU for an MA and get into a decent PhD program? Sure, but there are much better funded options.

[Philosophy M.A. admissions statistics]

On 9/11/2021 at 5:23 PM, cafe_deflore said:

Does anyone know where I can find admissions statistics on Columbia and NYU's philosophy M.A. programs? (Or does anyone have an idea of what the general level of competitiveness is for these?)

They're not competitive. Those programs will take pretty much anyone, because they're cash cows meant to generate revenue for the department, not to prepare students to apply for the PhD. My advice: don't apply to unfunded MA programs, especially at schools that have highly ranked PhD students.

[Changing MA programs mid-way?]

On 5/27/2021 at 1:40 PM, AkraticAgent said:

I'll be starting a terminal MA program in Canada this Fall. However, the funding package I've been offered is barely enough to get by (apparently there were hidden tuition costs that I wasn't aware of which brought the actual money I get substantially lower than the amount on paper). I could possibly defer this year and reapply to other MA programs but I'd much rather not waste the whole year. So I'm thinking of reapplying to other MA and PhD programs during the first semester of my current MA and then transferring programs if I have any luck. My question is whether this is even possible. If it is, would other programs look negatively at my decision to switch programs?

Most funded MA programs in philosophy have low funding. Mine paid me something like $8000/year USD. Unless you're totally unfunded or your program is particularly mediocre, I doubt that it's worth trying to transfer to another MA. Don't forget that you need to get letters to apply out, and you'll only have been at your program for a couple of months before needing to start the application process. It's tough to get good letters, because you won't have even written anything for anyone yet. My advice: tighten your belt, cut your expenses, and apply in your second year. Your application will be stronger then, and you can focus on applying to PhD programs.

I had to borrow a little bit in government student loans to make ends meet both years of my MA. It's something to avoid if you can, but something to consider as well as an option if necessary. If you do take out student loans, my advice is to keep them as small as possible. Some students in my MA department also worked part-time, so depending on how demanding your TA duties are, that's an option. A couple of nights a week bartending, waiting tables, or the like can go a long way.

[European student dreaming of Ph.D in USA]

On 3/19/2021 at 12:09 PM, Heidegger99 said:

Hey everybody!

Maybe its a stupid question, but im thinking about it for a quite a while... so lets go!

It is my lifelong dream to pursue a Ph.D in the US. Now im wondering how difficult it is to get admitted into a Ph.D program in the US (top 100 Uni's).

I must admit im kind of insecure about my grades when I compare them to the US grading system. I would say they are okay but not extremely competitive. I do have some other strengths tho.. Im currently studying Philosophy at the university of Leuven, Belgium (1st Belgium, 31th worldwide) and will study at LMU Munich for 6 months next year (1st Germany, 14th worldwide). Also im fluent in Dutch, German, French and English + I will first complete a Ma degree (in English) before applying for a Ph.D. (Im especially interested in German and French 20th century philosophy.)

The question: How important would grades be in my case? Would I be a competitive candidate if I would be applying for a Ph.D at (for example)  the University of Virginia, University of Missouri or Georgetown? 

Anyway, thanks a lot! ❤️

 

I don't think you'll be at a disadvantage coming from a European university. People here have heard of Leuven and LMU Munich. Those are schools with some prestige here, at least in philosophy. As @Marcus_Aureliussays, focus on your sample and getting strong letters from faculty.

If you want to work on 20th century German and French philosophy, though, Virginia and Missouri aren't going to be a good fit for you, so make sure you're applying to programs that make sense given your interests and the topic of your writing sample.

[Questions regarding Online MSc in Philosophy at Edinburgh]

On 4/23/2020 at 2:35 PM, JesusFdz said:

I am in my senior year of philosophy at an online college. I've been thinking about studying a masters degree in philosophy, but for the near future (2-3 years) my only options would be online (there is nothing around and I cannot relocate). What do you think about Edinburgh's MSc in Epistemology, Ethics and Mind? Is this a good option if I want to apply to a PhD program after said period, at what point I'd be able to relocate? 

@Duns Eithhas already given you good advice. To add to the general air of negativity here: if there's something else that you'd like to do, and that you think you'd be good at, it would be preferable to do that if you can. There aren't really many good academic jobs at all in philosophy, more are disappearing every day, our society doesn't much value humanities education, and most public universities in America (the ones where you'd formerly have had a chance of getting a job) are struggling/going to struggle more (especially humanities departments at these institutions), thanks to the economic fallout from COVID and the enrollment cliff. If you're not familiar with the enrollment cliff, this is it. It's bleak. If you're dead set on trying philosophy, plan on doing something else other than teaching after (i.e., career change). This won't be an easy path either.

If you're dead set on doing philosophy, an MA can be a good way to test the waters. My advice: don't do an unfunded MA. It's not a degree that's going to pay off, so it's not worth paying a bunch of money for it. If you can't get into a funded MA in philosophy, then you should probably just go do something else (being very blunt here). I'd also strongly recommend that you not do an online degree. I did my MA, and then COVID hit during the first year of my PhD, so I've gotten the normal in-person grad school experience, as well as the online substitute. Again, to be blunt--doing grad school online sucks. Part of what adds value to a grad program are your interactions with people in your department. You chat with other grad students before seminar, you run into faculty in the hall, etc. You feel like you're part of something. None of that happens if you're doing your education online. I know Edinburgh has a nice reputation, but I still wouldn't do it. Also, I'd imagine that it'd be harder to form the kinds of connections you need to get letters from faculty for PhD applications if you're only interacting online.

[Any intel on UC Riverside?]

3 minutes ago, LK7 said:

Thank you for the info! I'm anxious because there aren't many entries on here yet for UCR '21. 

Yeah, I think the class size they're shooting for will be a little smaller than normal, as it probably is at a lot of programs this year.

[Any intel on UC Riverside?]

17 minutes ago, LK7 said:

Do you know if any rejections have gone out? Also, if you don't mind me asking, how did you come by this information? 

Don't know about rejections, unfortunately. I'm at Riverside. If you have other questions about the department, feel free to ask them here or DM me.

[Any intel on UC Riverside?]

18 hours ago, LK7 said:

The program at UCR is my top choice and I have yet to hear a thing from them. There are currently only two entries for this year, both acceptances. 

 

To my knowledge, all initial offers have been made. Not sure about waitlist notifications.

[Philosophy Grad after low-tier college]

On 1/4/2020 at 3:13 PM, philosopuppy said:

And the pool of applicants will be different - it's not (for the most part, except maybe for Tufts) going to be people with BAs from Yale and NYU. It's going to be people from bad, mediocre, or just relatively unknown programs. That's a huge part of why MA programs in philosophy exist - to improve the "pedigree" of strong philosophy students who come from weak or lesser-known programs. At my MA program, which is one of the top ones I mentioned, there's like one person from a PGR bottom-ranked program, me from an unranked but listed program, and everyone else is from Southwest Such-and-such State or whatever.

I think that this is going to depend greatly on the MA program. At my MA program (not Tufts), almost no one was from an unknown school. Most students had a degree in philosophy from at least a reasonably well-known public or private university, and a number of students had gone to top institutions--both top in terms of PGR and also in terms of overall US News rankings. There were also a few of us who had turned down ranked PhD offers to do the MA first (I was one). There were, of course, some students from relatively unknown schools, and several from non-philosophy backgrounds, but they were the exception rather than the rule.

This isn't to say that philosopuppy's general point is incorrect; I agree that MA programs are by-and-large less selective than top-50 PhD programs. However, the top MAs can still be quite selective depending on the program, and it's a good idea to apply to a spread of programs for that reason. Philosophy admissions can be very prestige-sensitive.

[Fee waivers and taxes]

13 hours ago, philosopuppy said:

A quick question about fee waivers for PhD programs - does anyone have any idea whether, if you plan to use your tax returns to qualify for PhD fee waivers, you must file as an independent? I plan to file FAFSA for this academic year, and for FAFSA I qualify as an independent student. But my parents have claimed me as a dependent for all of the years I filed taxes. My only income is my MA stipend (~13k), but my parents obviously make more than that - would that get in the way of my qualifying for fee waivers, if they claim me as a dependent this time around?

I've done some googling and looking around on this forum, but I haven't found any information about how this works, beyond the basic "sending in your tax returns is one way to apply for a fee waiver". (I should add that my institution's fin aid office has categorically refused to write letters attesting to financial need for students in my program, so that does not appear to be an available option.)

Thanks in advance for any info!

Different institutions have different requirements for waivers. Some will ask for the FAFSA SAR report, some that you receive SNAP or other benefits, some that you have participated in certain programs, and a few will want your tax returns.

For those schools that require the FAFSA SAR, they're going to look at your EFC (expected family contribution). If you're independent on the FAFSA, then your parents' income won't need to be included in the SAR calculation, so you'll likely be eligible since your EFC will be very low. If you're a dependent for tax purposes, though, then I doubt that you'll qualify for waivers for those programs that require your tax returns, though you might see if you can submit 2019 returns and file independently for 2019 (I know one school I applied to required the most recent return--i.e. I was applying for fall 2019 entry and they wanted my 2018 return).

[What are my chances?]

5 hours ago, Olórin said:

Funny timing, I just found the updated guide for 2019/2020 this morning: https://my.vanderbilt.edu/pluralistsguide/program-recommendations/continental-philosophy/

I think your writing sample will be what counts most, and having a degree from a Brazilian university won’t make too much difference. It’s true that people might not be familiar with your university, but your application as a whole will speak for itself.

It might help if some of your letter writers are familiar with Canadian/US programs and standards. Actually, it might be helpful to ask them about programs they are familiar with. 

And a lot of programs are interested in having students from different places, so that could help you. 

There are some major problems with this list. U. Penn is "strongly recommended" for studying continental philosophy? Western Michigan, Houston, and Rutgers are "recommended"? These are good programs, but are strongly analytic in orientation. Why are Houston and West Mich listed under the "recommended" PhD program list and then also under the MA program list? These departments only offer the MA, not the PhD, and are fully analytic programs.

There are other issues as well. Why is Washington State Pullman listed? They have no grad program in philosophy at all. American U. is listed as a "strongly recommended" MA program, but Georgia State is merely "recommended". American doesn't even have a standalone philosophy department per se; it has a Religion & Philosophy department. A cursory look suggest that the department has maybe four TT phil faculty. Everyone else does religion or is a lecturer of some kind. Furthermore, there's no placement page, and the program doesn't appear to offer funding. GSU, on the other hand, has notable Nietzsche and Hegel scholars, and is fully funded with a strong placement history of getting students into continental PhD programs to boot. LSU and Cal State LA are not mentioned in the MA list at all, despite having TT continental scholars. UW Milwaukee isn't either, though they have someone who works on Hegel and Nietzsche.

[Metaphysics: UW-Madison or UC Davis?]

5 hours ago, KarlX said:

Hi guys! 

My interest in metaphysics of time and material objects drives me to some PhD programs which have strengths in metaphysics. The Philosophical Gourmet Report has placed UC Davis into its rankings of metaphysics, but UW Madison doesn't appear in the same list of rankings. This fact seems to show that UC Davis is better at metaphysics than UW-Madison.

However, a few days ago I was surprised to find that in UWM's department of philosophy, there are several faculty members who also do interesting work on metaphysics of material objects and time travel. So now I'm confused about the two programs' strengths in metaphysics...

Can anyone tell me which of two programs is better?  Besides, which  is harder to get into (I mean, the lower chance of admission)?

Keep in mind the PGR is a reputational survey, and the subfield rankings roughly reflect things like how many people are working in a particular subfield at a given department, and things like faculty research output.

I'm not in metaphysics, but Cody Gilmore is, to my knowledge, a well-known metaphysician. The only dedicated metaphysician at Madison is Alan Sidelle from the looks of things. I'm sure he's a fine scholar as well, but if you look at both their publication histories, Gilmore's is more extensive/has more prestigious pubs/etc. This is probably the reason why Davis is ranked for metaphysics and Madison isn't.

Madison is ranked higher overall because they have a ton of ethics people and history people that Davis doesn't have. Both have good people working on various areas of phil of sci, but Madison is ranked higher in the subfield rankings for general phil of sci as well, which contributes to its higher ranking overall.

As for which one is harder to get into, it's hard to say definitively. Highly ranked programs are extremely competitive, and higher-ranked programs are generally more competitive, but this doesn't necessarily mean that just because Program X is ranked higher than P.Y, that X will necessarily be harder for you to get into. So much comes down to individual fit, if you wow the people on the ad com with your writing sample, how many applicants to a program want to work in your area, and how many good apps a given program is getting overall, which isn't always perfectly tracked by ranking (location, etc. can affect how many apps a program gets). I got plenty of rejections from programs that were lower-ranked than the one I'm attending. This is not uncommon.

It's also hard to say which one is "better" for you. Overall rankings and subfield rankings are useful, and a good place to start, but it's a good idea to see what individual faculty work on and if they'd be a good fit. If you're really into metaphysics and feel like faculty at both institutions would fit your particular interests in metaphysics, then you can always apply to both and see what happens.

[Texas A & M]

1 hour ago, UndergradDad said:

Anyone familiar with their Phd program? I am guessing it is not that well known but wondering if it is a decent program. 

I applied there in the past, and I know someone there. I don't know all the in's and out's of the program, but I'd say that it's a good program depending on area of interest. I'd say it's strongest for certain areas of continental philosophy (Hegel, Nietzsche, I think there's someone who does French phenomenology, etc.) and logic/phil. of math, but there are also a bunch of ethics people and a well-known philosopher of mind. They used to be great for pragmatism as well, but their senior scholar in this area (John McDermott) recently passed away. From what I understand, many students at this program work primarily in the continental tradition, though this is by no means universal.

The downsides of the program that I'm aware of would be: placement, funding, location, and the second master's requirement. Placement isn't great, the stipend is small (about $13k) taking into account the cost-of-living for the area, and some people might find the area to be unexciting (College Station is a college town, kind of isolated from major urban areas, , summers are hot and humid, etc). The location wasn't a big deal for me personally, but if you get in, it's something worth thinking about.

A&M also requires that students do a master's in an area outside of philosophy. This is obviously a bunch of extra coursework, could potentially greatly extend your time-to-degree, and when I looked into options for degrees related to my philosophical interests, there weren't really good options. For example, there's no linguistics, German, or psych master's offered at the university. That being said, my understanding is that the students who are doing continental/historical work take care of the requirement with coursework in Early Modern Studies or English. You might also not care so much about the extra time if you haven't yet gotten a master's. For me, though, the better part of two years of extra coursework was not appealing, especially since I had just spent two years getting an MA. In any case, definitely keep that requirement in mind, especially taking into account satisfying it in a way that works with your area of interest.

My two cents:  I would've gone there and dealt with the drawbacks since there are good people there to work with in my areas of interest, but I ended up going with another program that I felt was a better fit for me and had better placement. But if it fits your areas of interest, by all means, apply.

[Philosophy Graduate Entrants 2020]

9 hours ago, Quaaliaa said:

I know this is rather old data but here it states that the average quantitative score for intended philosophy majors is 153.

Maybe it's gone up a bit since 2014 when this was aggregated?

More recent data from ETS say people intending to study philosophy who take the GRE have a mean verbal score of 159 and quantitative score of 154. What we can infer from that about people who actually apply to grad programs is a different question. A few programs have average scores of accepted applicants on their websites. e.g., Notre Dame, UCSD, Mizzou, and Chicago, to name a few, though it's hard to know how up-to-date this info is.

My two cents to @Prob and anyone else: don't sweat the quant score too much. If it's in at least the 50th-60th percentile range, that's sufficient. I certainly wouldn't spend a whole lot of time trying to improve a score in that range. Your time will be better served focusing on your sample. This is assuming that you're not trying to do particularly formal or logic-focused work in grad school. Then you may want to have a higher quant score.

[What Should I Do?]

22 hours ago, Akratiarensis said:

Hi everyone, I am in the process of applying to the graduate programs in philosophy that start in Fall 2020. I'm in my senior year at the best philosophy department in my country. But it's definitely not very well known compared to the prestigious universities in the U.S. and the Western Europe. So, I reckon I am going to be a slightly disadvantaged international applicant. I am interested in the philosophy of action. My writing sample is on the weakness of will and revolves around the paradox Davidson presents in "How Is Weakness of Will Possible?". I think I have some quite serious problems about my applications because of the following:

- My GPA is 3.8 and philosophy GPA is 4. Both are the highest in the department. But the problem is my school does not have a worldwide prestige. Additionally, my letter writers do not have a worldwide reputation, although they received their PhDs from the top 20 schools worldwide, and know me very well as we are a small department.

- My writing sample is not completely finished yet. What I am going to write is pretty clear, but still I am going to have 1.5 month at most to make it as polished as possible after finishing it. I am planning to apply to schools that have deadlines in January and February.

- I am going to take GRE at the end of this month. I have been preparing for it since the last summer, but I am pretty sure that my verbal section is not going to be great. Tests show that I am pretty good at the quantitative section (165+) but usually score less than 160 (usually 156-7) in the verbal section. Because of my taking GRE a bit late, I am not going to be able to apply to schools that have deadlines in December.

- I have a budget limit that cannot allow me to apply to more than 10-15 schools. I am going to have to pay all of the application fees the schools request because I am an international applicant.

So, given my condition, I think I should not apply to the most of the top schools. But I may apply to FSU, Cornell, and USC because they seem to be strong in my AOI, though no one seems to recommend Florida State. Should I even consider applying to other top 20 or so schools? I tried to find some "safety" schools to apply, but everywhere seems equally competitive to me. It would be great to hear if you have any suggestions about where would be a "safety" school in my condition. My professors suggested that I might increase my chances of getting an acceptance by also applying to some MA programs like Brandeis, Simon Fraser, and Tufts. I don't really know much about these MA programs, and I am not sure how "easier" it would be to get into them for me. I would be grateful to hear your opinions about applying to these MA programs. I also have an option to do MA in my school to prepare better for the PhD programs. I am not sure whether this is a good idea because previous best students graduated in our department were usually be able to get accepted into universities like Indiana, Simon Fraser, Syracuse, and Illinois at Chicago. I am also generally open to any other advice you could give. Thank you!

Duns Eith has good advice. To add a few thoughts:

I think it can be hard sometimes for North American departments to evaluate universities that aren't in the world of Anglophone philosophy. That being said, don't be afraid to apply to a spread of programs. I knew folks from my MA department and at my current PhD program who didn't get their undergrad degree from Anglophone programs. If you're interested in phil of action, apply to FSU, Riverside, Cornell, etc., as well as some  places in your sub-field ranked higher on the overall rankings. There are great people at lots of different places, and just because a place doesn't have a high rank doesn't mean that you can't do good work in your sub-field there, as long as there's someone good you can work with there. FSU, for example, outranks, say, Stanford for phil of action, even though the latter is in the top-ten and the former is in the 40s in the overall rankings.

As far as MA programs are concerned, I think that fit matters much less than for PhD programs. Tufts and Brandeis are great programs, but notoriously expensive and underfunded. Simon Fraser is a good option, but don't be afraid to apply to some other MA programs that also have better funding than Tufts and Brandeis, even if they don't seem like the perfect fit for your AOI (e.g., GSU, NIU, UWM, Houston, West. Mich., etc.). I had the choice during my first app season between an MA and a PhD, and I opted to do the MA first. In the end, I think that was the right choice for me. I'm not saying that's what everyone should do, but an MA can do a lot for you in terms of professional development, putting together a better sample, etc.

[Request to edit WS!]

@Mahdi Ahmadi @CynicismJX I think you folks may want to use links to a Google doc rather than trying to attach files to your posts.

[Stanford MA]

16 hours ago, Glasperlenspieler said:

Granted, all my experience with these programs is second-hand (I do know several people who went through the MAPH program), so I can't help you much in that regard. But I will say one more thing: how transparent a program is about its placement record says a lot about the program. GSU (https://philosophy.gsu.edu/graduate/placement-record/) and UW-Milwaukee (https://uwm.edu/philosophy/graduate/graduate-placement/), for example, have commendably transparent placement records on their websites. If a program doesn't advertise this sort of information, it's probably because they don't want you to see it.

This is important. These pay-to-play programs don't post placement because their purpose isn't to get students into good programs, their purpose is to make money. And their placement is undoubtedly poor as a result.

16 hours ago, Flossifer said:

Was the experience with the MAPH programs negative across the board?

I know several people who went to MAPH who got into PhD programs. This doesn't mean that going there is a good idea. For one thing, it is obscenely expensive. Check out the link; tuition for the one-year program is $60,300. Add another $15-20k to live in Chicago for a year, and you're looking at close to a six-figure investment for a program that doesn't even give you their complete placement history upfront. If you have a bunch of money and don't care about blowing it on a degree, at least go to Tufts or something, which has a tried-and-true placement record and will likely give you partial funding, even if it's limited. Though in my opinion also unnecessarily expensive and not worth it, compared to MAPH, Tufts almost looks like a bargain.

[Stanford MA]

15 hours ago, Flossifer said:

In my “research” I rarely find any information regarding terminal MAs at schools that have full phd programs. Stanford also happens to be the school with the least information at all.

Does anyone know much about the program? How competitive it is to apply? If they have good placement? If masters students get any attention relative to phd students? 

Any insight would be awesome, especially if it comes from current students!!

Thanks
 

A number of the top schools have terminal MA programs. However, these are by and large cash-cow programs. They're used to generate revenue for the department and keep seminar enrollments high. It's not a good idea to go to such programs because the PhD students at such departments get all the faculty attention and department funding. Seminars will also be designed with the training and experience of PhD students in mind.

These programs get away with what is, to be candid, a predatory money grab because students will pay the exorbitant tuition, blinded by the Chicago/Stanford/etc. name, not realizing that they're being hoodwinked. In addition to the aforementioned programs, other egregious offenders include: Columbia, CUNY Grad Center, and NYU.

Apply to funded MA programs. There are plenty of good ones out there.

 

[Philosophy Graduate Entrants 2020]

4 hours ago, Quaaliaa said:

Why do you think this?

This board has been getting quieter every year for at least the last few years that I've been using it. I'm not sure exactly why, other than maybe people have been using FB in lieu of these kinds of forum sites. That being said, people inevitably start joining later in the app season when they start stressing about apps, and it'll probably pick up then.

Also, a few of us who are more seasoned have stuck around to answer questions, like @Duns Eith@Marcus_Aurelius@maxhgns@Glasperlenspieler etc.

[When to ask department to switch from PhD to MA?]

16 hours ago, NatsumeHeidegger said:

Hi all,

I am currently in my first semester of my PhD program, and I am fairly certain that I do not want to complete the program, but want to take a master's degree and get a job. Now that I'm here, I enjoy academia well enough, but not enough to justify the risk, since it's so competitive. When is the appropriate time to notify my department about my decision? I want to wait a while to make sure I am certain this is what I want to do, but I don't want to wait too long, since the course requirements are different, and since it seems unethical to wait until I am close to the master's to tell them. I also am worried about letting them know right now since it's just my first semester, and I don't want to burn bridges by making it look like I just accepted to get a free MA. If I let them know at this time, is it likely that my funding for next year will be threatened, since PhD students get priority over MA students?

It's not unusual to have some second thoughts about grad school. I think most grad students have some doubts from time to time. Wait at least until your first year is over if you can before you tell your department. Half a semester isn't long enough to sort out how you feel about what you're doing, nor to settle into a new town/department/etc.

It's also not unusual for students to change their minds and leave PhD programs with an MA, so don't feel like it's unethical or that you'll be burning bridges by doing so.

[Pivoting from Philosophy of Religion MA into general Philosophy PhD?]

2 hours ago, jmarvin_ said:

I'm currently starting my second year as a Philosophy of Religion MA student at Chicago, with the relatively idiosyncratic area of research centered on interfaces between mathematics/logic, mystical language, and continental philosophy.  I think that this department is the best possible fit for the eclectic interests I'm most passionate about—which is why I came here for the MA in the first place—and I'm somewhat confident I can continue on to the PhD here.  I am, however, very much concerned that things may not fall my way, and have been considering alternative programs to apply to.

My work is at this point too directly philosophical in approach (and too concerned with mathematics!) for religious studies and theology departments to be a clean fit.  I think I would still feel quite edified and able to pursue my passions moving into a philosophy program, whether by concentrating in philosophy of religion, joining a continental department, or just straight up doing philosophy of math/logic.

The trouble is, I have heard (including on this board) that philosophy departments don't take kindly to people coming from my background.  I did half an undergraduate degree in hard science before deciding I wanted to pursue humanities and ended up with a theology degree after taking things up and down the philosophy, theology, and English departments, including four PhD courses I talked my way into; now I am on my way to finishing an MA in Phil. of Religion as mentioned.  Is it reasonable to apply to philosophy departments as alternative options in case I can't stay on track here, or do I have a slim chance of getting into any?

GRE scores are 170v168Q, so there should be no barrier there, and GPA is good to great on all fronts.  My passions are diverse enough that I could modify my statement of intent to fit more straightforward research avenues that align with faculty of interest.  Am I still going to be screwed by my background outside of pure philosophy?

I've heard of people making the jump to philosophy with a religion MA. It can be done. That being said: have you taken a reasonable number of philosophy courses? Philosophy-adjacent courses like theology or English aren't necessarily going to mean much to philosophers. Admissions committees are going to want to see some exposure to higher-level courses in philosophy in some breadth, particularly if you're aiming for PhD programs rather than an MA. Relatedly, can you get letters from philosophers? You'll want to do so in order to be most competitive (again, MA programs are a bit more flexible in this regard, in my experience, though you'll still want to get as many letters from philosophers as you can).

The danger that you'll also need to be wary of in your situation is that you don't want to come across as having interests that are all over the place or too idiosyncratic, so you'll want to take care when producing a WS and crafting a SOP that you're making a case for why you're a good fit for the departments to which you're applying. You'll also want to explain succinctly in your SOP how your interests have moved you towards academic philosophy, and in a way that is organic and makes sense.

Also consider a mix of MA's and PhD programs. A good, funded MA can help you make the jump a bit more easily into academic philosophy if you have a non-standard background.