dormcat

My mentor has told me probably a trillion times that going to grad school isn't always about doing the research you want to do. You should find it interesting (enough to work on it for 5-7 years) but it doesn't have to be your lifelong passion. You should go where you will get the best training to do the research you want to do, even if the topic isn't your jam. At the same time you should be somewhere doing research that you care enough about to get as much work done as you can. If you're somewhere you don't love the work or the environment, you'll likely be less productive. Not to mention you will enjoy your time less. This is basically committing to a job for 5-7 years and you should choose the job that you will like the most, be the most productive at, and will give you the tools you need to succeed. 

First you have to get through the stressful process of being a PhD student  

@anon143  At the start of my first year I didn't register for classes until August and it was perfectly fine lol.  Even if a class was technically full my advisor had the ability to make it work because apparently there is a form for everything and first years are usually given some flexibility because they have no idea what they're supposed to be doing.  
And I do understand your fiance's thoughts on renting vs owning, but he has to be willing to make some compromises if he wants to be with his wife after the wedding.  I know there's all kinds of modern twists on marriage, but I don't get the sense that you 2 actually want to live apart.  Plus you 2 will have to deal with this issue again when you apply for internships (and maybe post doc and your job after that) because limiting yourself geographically can make it harder to be placed.  There are lots of threads on this forum about going through this process with a spouse that might help you begin some discussions with him about what grad school is like.  
Now this year up until the wedding if living apart makes the most sense then there is nothing wrong with that, however you're saying your only option is to deal with a long commute when it isn't.  You can't change what your fiance chooses to do, but you can change your situation anyway you want.  You could look into renting a place (solo or shared) closer to campus and reduce your commute, your University might have grad student housing that is nice and affordable, or you might be able to find a commuter room closer where you just rent it during the week and go back to your parents place on weekends.  Regardless of what you decide, be certain that it is truly what is best for you and you're not just settling for an awful situation because you feel obligated to.

Wow. No, that won't happen.
First, your TA won't even be at your university 4-5 years from now. TAs are graduate students and they graduate at some point and leave. TAs also don't tend to remember their students that well years after they're done teaching them; I guarantee you that they've already forgotten about your question, and there is exactly zero percent chance that it'll suddenly pop into their head 5 years from now. 
Second, something would have to be seriously wrong with the university for it to entertain a complaint about a minor infraction do to with a student who's graduated a long time ago, and even more seriously wrong if they go through a process to find you guilty and impose a sanction. The Dean is a busy person, trust me when I promise you that the last thing they want to do with their time is try to work their way through an old complaint that doesn't make any sense from a former TA who's apparently lost their mind after a car accident. 
Third, even in the now impossible scenario that your grade changes, once you're in a PhD program, you're in. No one is going to care if your grade changed slightly. When you apply, you'll report your grades as they are, and that's what the university will use to make its decision. That will be what matters, not retroactive changes (and in fact it's entirely unclear how your PhD institution would ever even learn of a proceeding at another institution; such a matter wouldn't normally be reported to other institutions, you have a right to privacy). And once you have your PhD, you're done. Seriously, no one is going to know or care about this one grade from your BA. Revoking a person's PhD is so incredibly rare; it happens when a person makes up their entire dissertation data or commits some other serious fraud, and even then it'll only happen after lengthy proceedings. It will NOT happen because of such a minuscule issue with one undergraduate class. 
 
I seriously feel like I'm missing something. Are you planning to kidnap this TA's dog or ding their car five years from now? Why are you imagining these oh so unlikely revenge plots? 

The subject of the email was "Declination of [School] admissions offer" because I wanted to temper expectations before it was even read. 
[PI name],
After careful consideration, I have made the difficult decision to decline [School]'s offer of admission. While I very much appreciated the opportunity to meet the faculty and graduate students at [School], I believe another program is a better fit for my research interests. Thank you for your time and consideration during this process.
Best,
[Me]
The PI wrote back and said they were sorry it didn't work out and asked where I ended up accepting and why. I said, "I really enjoyed my time at [School], am very honored to have been accepted, and hope to convey this was not an easy decision. However, based on my academic background and research interests, I accepted an offer from [program] at the [Chosen School]."
The PI wrote back again and very kindly said I made a good choice and will have a good experience. Overall the conversation went as well as could be expected. 

If they weren't offering enough money for you to sustain yourself, were they really that welcoming? Well intentioned, maybe, but you should remember that they were willing for you to take on serious debt in order to be there. Taking the offer with funding was and is the smarter decision! It's okay to be unsure, but once the dust has settled, you should start finding ways to get excited about your new school -- sometimes it can take some time, especially when the process is emotionally difficult, but at the end of the day you made the right decision, and you should be proud of that. 

I thought it was all done and dusted and I was prepared to apply again this Fall, but I got accepted into my top choice (Binghamton U.) off the waitlist. 
I wish the best of luck to everyone here! 

In my brain, I have already fast forwarded a year and have passed all of my examinations. Next week, I will believe that I have already graduated haha. 

After waiting for what seems like an eternity...today I was officially accepted off the waitlist to my first choice, which is the University of Georgia! I am so excited!

The subject of the email was "Declination of [School] admissions offer" because I wanted to temper expectations before it was even read. 
[PI name],
After careful consideration, I have made the difficult decision to decline [School]'s offer of admission. While I very much appreciated the opportunity to meet the faculty and graduate students at [School], I believe another program is a better fit for my research interests. Thank you for your time and consideration during this process.
Best,
[Me]
The PI wrote back and said they were sorry it didn't work out and asked where I ended up accepting and why. I said, "I really enjoyed my time at [School], am very honored to have been accepted, and hope to convey this was not an easy decision. However, based on my academic background and research interests, I accepted an offer from [program] at the [Chosen School]."
The PI wrote back again and very kindly said I made a good choice and will have a good experience. Overall the conversation went as well as could be expected. 

I think you've gotten a lot of great advice so far, but I'll throw in my two cents!
In my mind, there's nothing more important than fit when choosing a grad program. I applied this cycle straight out of undergrad and was really fortunate to receive offers from two really great clinical programs, and I felt a lot of pressure to accept one of them simply because it's what one is expected to do in that situation. I didn't feel that the fit was terrible with either of them, but it wasn't great either. I thought that the research fit with the PIs was only moderately good, and I didn't feel that I would get quite the high caliber neuropsych training that I was looking for. On the flip side, I had an offer for an RAship with a PI whose research interests are incredibly well-aligned with mine (the general "fit" was great too, in the overall sense of the word).
In the end, I decided to turn down my grad offers and pursue the RAship. I felt such a genuine excitement and eagerness about the RAship that just wasn't there when I thought about the grad programs, and I think it's really important to go where you'll be motivated to perform well. As difficult as it was to turn down the offers (and it really was an agonizing decision process), I just didn't feel comfortable accepting an offer solely because there were offers to accept. Five years is a long time, and those five years are a really formative time in our development as researchers/clinicians, so I want to try to position myself to have the best grad experience that I can. I know it's definitely a risk, and maybe it will or won't lead to an offer from a program with a better fit in the future, but either way, if I can have this great research experience in the interim, I think that alone makes the decision worth it.
With that said, I'm probably on the extreme end when it comes to the importance of fit (especially research fit). A lot of other people think that research fit isn't very important in grad school as long as the PI's work is broadly related to your interests, and that you shouldn't really be concerned with fit until you start looking for post-docs. I'm sure that there's some validity to that, so it's good to try to get as many different perspectives as possible (I probably sought advice from 30+ people before making my final decision). But in the end, despite what everyone else thinks, you just have to make this decision for you and try not to look back. Good luck!

Have you experienced what you felt was "good fit" with a PI during an interview? I wasn't really sure what it meant until I had two interviews in a five day period. The first one left me on top of the world thrilled for days while the second one was really disappointing. Even though I was initially very excited about the second school, after the interview I just felt it wasn't right at all, and that was one conversation out of the thousands I'd have with that PI if I went there. With the PI I'll be working with it's hard to imagine I'll ever not want to talk with her. 
It's 40+ hours a week you'll have to work with these people that you may not get along with or not be interested in the work you're doing, for 5-7 years. Grad school really tests you. It's just easier to get through if you're in the right environment, which is why fit is so important. 
Not getting in is scary. I didn't get in my senior year and had to find a job, which I've now been at three years. I have so much more experience and I was a much more competitive applicant this past round. I don't know you but you've got kind of an maybe-scary (job) and a definitely-scary (bad fit school). I'd opt for the maybe-scary, personally. 

Have you experienced what you felt was "good fit" with a PI during an interview? I wasn't really sure what it meant until I had two interviews in a five day period. The first one left me on top of the world thrilled for days while the second one was really disappointing. Even though I was initially very excited about the second school, after the interview I just felt it wasn't right at all, and that was one conversation out of the thousands I'd have with that PI if I went there. With the PI I'll be working with it's hard to imagine I'll ever not want to talk with her. 
It's 40+ hours a week you'll have to work with these people that you may not get along with or not be interested in the work you're doing, for 5-7 years. Grad school really tests you. It's just easier to get through if you're in the right environment, which is why fit is so important. 
Not getting in is scary. I didn't get in my senior year and had to find a job, which I've now been at three years. I have so much more experience and I was a much more competitive applicant this past round. I don't know you but you've got kind of an maybe-scary (job) and a definitely-scary (bad fit school). I'd opt for the maybe-scary, personally. 

I'm not in clinical, but I believe it is pretty important. And here's why I think so:
You can think of it as a luxury, but in reality, it's important whether or not you have lots of choices. As you mentioned, you always have the choice to apply again.
I used to feel the same way as you, I thought I would only apply once because it's a waste not to, and it would make no sense to work for a while or be an RA because that was just stalling and doing something irrelevant when I could be in a graduate program instead. However, I don't feel that way anymore (for a few reasons) and it has definitely changed my outlook. I'll explain more below.
Are you coming out of undergrad right now? Because what I and other people applying directly to PhD programs thought was that we were super ready and anyone else could see that. So we were ambitious and we applied to lots of super competitive schools - spoiler, we didn't get in. Now, that could be for multiple reasons, but one of them was definitely that these places don't often take people right from undergrad. This is especially true for my direct-entry PhD programs, which were in business. But even people in know in areas like vision science were much more competitive after having been an RA or a lab manager for a while. This is especially true for the US - here in Canada, most PhD programs have a funded masters attached, so it's a bit different. Once I realized this, it changed my thinking a bit.
Everything that I just said above is even more true for top programs. When I see the students' backgrounds in these top programs, yes, some of them come in right from undergrad. But others have counselling masters (if they're in clinical), RA positions, or maybe they've worked for a while. Who knows if they just decided to apply later, if they knew this strategy all along, or if they've applied multiple times? No matter which one of these it is, we can see that this waiting/RAing approach has worked very well for them. Of course, there are people it doesn't work well for either, but if you're considering a program right now that is not a good fit and maybe isn't the best place you feel you can get into, then it's a risk but it might make more sense to apply again after.
Here's some cognitive psych applied to this decision for you to consider: people are risk-averse. Like, super risk averse. One bird in the hand is worth two in the bush is a popular expression for a reason. But that doesn't mean it's always the best way for you to make decisions. It can be very suboptimal in certain cases. Is a poor-fitting school right now really better than a great fitting school later, or the option between multiple schools?
Another part of this risk aversion is being bad at forecasting: you might feel right now that you have a higher probability of not getting in anywhere in a second round of applications than you really do. If you got in once, it's really unlikely you will never get in anywhere again. You could very likely get into the same place, or places within that tier, and perhaps some better (objectively and/or better for you) a second time. So your probabilities could be way off. You also have no idea how close you were to being on the waitlist at the other places - you might think you are near the bottom, but you could have barely made the cut, and applying again could bump you over that cutoff.
Fit sometimes has to do with the quality of the school. We say it as if it's totally subjective, but its also a but objective as well. There was one school I interviewed at which had just an atrocious atmosphere and seemed problematic for so many reasons. The funding was crap, the students were unhappy (and they told us), the profs were demanding in ways that didn't make any sense, the program lacked structure, the communication of the program was misleading/incorrect, and there was no ability to even have a conversation with the people who I was supposed to be supervised by. I don't think anyone "fits" within a program like that. So why are we blaming the "fit" or the student for not "fitting", when it's objectively bad? This is broader than just your question, but if you're chalking something up to fit and it's really about your basic needs as a student, then you should keep that in mind. No one "fits" with a place with bad funding, they either make it work because they might have to, or they choose not to go.
A PhD is a super long time. I'm feeling this so much right now. And the thought of working in a place where such major things are a problem (not only your research topics but the structures to support you and how people who are currently there seem to be feeling) is a red flag, not just a bad fit issue. Even where I am, where the support is there, people seem less stressed, and there is (imo) the right balance between freedom and structure, the courses/research/general approach to the field is just not aligned for me. I would consider that more of a fit issue than what you're describing, which sounds more like a bad program issue. But either way, those two kinds of situations likely won't make you happy for 5-6 years.
Also one thing about waitlists: I was on one, and I think the waitlist time gives you a lot of insight into whether you want to go there. I was actually not looking forward to having to make the decision between the waitlist school and the school I eventually chose, and not for good reasons such as liking both of them. I liked one, and I felt like I "should" have chosen the waitlist school, had I gotten in. In a way, I was fortunate that I didn't, because I didn't want to be pulled towards that choice by location (even though its so much better), ranking (again, much better), or overall prestige/how other people would feel (obv related to ranking). Don't go somewhere because you "should", really, it's a bad idea. I know people who are leaving programs now because that's (partly) why they made their decision in the first place.
So this got super long, sorry! I think I really resonated with your question, as I'm dealing with similar things now (from a different stage, more masters to PhD) and there are a lot of commonalities.
Best of luck with your decision!

Thats amazing. Great job. I am hoping to get something for about $1300. Utilities plus Internet etc will be another $300/400. And yes we also hope to adopt some old cats and/or dogs when there. So finding a nice home is important for us too. You guys enjoy your home. And good luck with the job search. Now that you cracked the UMich entrance, everything else should fall into place

I found an apartment (converted house) in Kerrytown on Craigslist.

If the process is really tiring for you, perhaps consider applying two years from now, rather than one! When I applied three years ago, I only got one waitlist (Cornell) and one fly-in interview (Iowa). I felt like my prospects weren't going to be that much more amazing after one year, so I decided to just keep my head down and work hard on my research for the next two years, and I made my dreams come true this time, as well as making a few friends and mentors who were really rooting for me this cycle.

My mentor has told me probably a trillion times that going to grad school isn't always about doing the research you want to do. You should find it interesting (enough to work on it for 5-7 years) but it doesn't have to be your lifelong passion. You should go where you will get the best training to do the research you want to do, even if the topic isn't your jam. At the same time you should be somewhere doing research that you care enough about to get as much work done as you can. If you're somewhere you don't love the work or the environment, you'll likely be less productive. Not to mention you will enjoy your time less. This is basically committing to a job for 5-7 years and you should choose the job that you will like the most, be the most productive at, and will give you the tools you need to succeed. 

@milkymamahdf I don't totally feel comfortable giving input, because there are so many factors that I could never be aware of in your life. But I really want to help, so apparently I'm giving input now. It seems that you are very research-focused, based on the factors that you listed as important. So i would think about where you are going to do YOUR best research. Addressing the PI at B, I don't personally find the gap to be that suspicious. Things happen. (I had a major family tragedy last May, followed by another in August, and my life is still a bit derailed.) There might be a very good explanation (e.g. didn't take grad students for a year of two, or maybe was running a very complicated study, tragedy struck, IRB approval lapsed during personal time off and it took a while to get reapproved, possibly had to re-do first stage of study because too much time had passed, and then publishing is a lengthy ordeal.) 2010-2012 is also a fair bit ago. Is the PI at B still underpublishing in the past couple years compared to the PI at A?  If not, or if it's only a small difference, I wouldn't personally give publishing as much weight as other factors. Another thing that's important to consider is how self-sufficient you are? Do you need especially supportive faculty I with very specific knowledge and interest in your research to mentor you? Or are you more confident in your personal skill level? If you feel you are going to want more support, a supportive professor could make a world of difference. If you are more self-sufficient, than the level of support may not be as big of a factor in your decision. Not much help, probably. But I figured I'd chime in. 

@milkymamahdf 2010-2012 is 5-7 years ago. Is it a very competitive program where PIs should be publishing tons? Is it possible she had a child around that time and slowed down her work load for a couple years? Maybe she was between grants, or between grad students? This isn't something that would concern me unless she was currently in a dry spell. And part of a PI's publication history depends on their students' work, maybe she had a particularly disinterested student who wanted to go into industry and didn't care too much about publishing. Option B sounds way better. 

I'm not sure, it really depends on her personality and your relationship with her. It could be something straightforward and professional like "I had two graduate students who didn't chase pubs" or it could be very personal (illness, death in the family, etc.). My two cents, this wouldn't even register as a con compared to working with someone you don't feel connected to/supported by in a program that is less than ideal. 

@milkymamahdf 2010-2012 is 5-7 years ago. Is it a very competitive program where PIs should be publishing tons? Is it possible she had a child around that time and slowed down her work load for a couple years? Maybe she was between grants, or between grad students? This isn't something that would concern me unless she was currently in a dry spell. And part of a PI's publication history depends on their students' work, maybe she had a particularly disinterested student who wanted to go into industry and didn't care too much about publishing. Option B sounds way better. 

Why are you not excited to go back? Is it solely because you did your undergrad there and want a change of scenery, or was there something about your undergrad that you didn't enjoy and that is not something that can be changed? Also, how compatible do you think you would be with your potential adviser? Since your goal is staying in academia, does your adviser have a good record of placing advisees into tenure track positions? As for research, would it be possible to stay within the broad area of the adviser's research while branching out into something more "popular/relevant?" And what do you mean by low research budget? Is the adviser running low or currently without grant money? I'm assuming the department itself should have no problem with funding since it's top 5 world & psychology. If you look at influential psychologists in any subfield, but especially in social psychology, the majority of influential research and tenure track graduates come from the top 5-10 schools. The productivity of both faculty and students at these schools can often rival that of an entire department at a "lower ranked" school.
Top 10 in psychology makes this difficult... even though there does appear to be a slight drop off in productivity and tenure track placement between the top 5 schools and then the following 5-10 schools, it's not enough of a difference to make it an easy or clear cut decision. Enjoying the recruitment visit is a plus, although I'm sometimes skeptical of how much predictive value a visit of 1-3 days is of long term (5-7 year) QoL (though clearly it's much better than not having enjoyed the visit). The major risk factor and the thing that stands out for me the most here is the first-time adviser. Advising a graduate student through to completion of a PhD, and not just completion but preparing that advisee for a tenure track faculty position can be quite challenging. If the research is cutting edge and high quality enough, it might not matter so much in terms of publications, presentations, and how you look on paper. Why is the research budget better with this adviser? Recent large grant? You also describe your stipend here as reasonable, and the stipend at school #1 as only just livable. Is it mostly a cost of living difference? I thought schools in the top 5 - top 10 range all provided adequate stipends. Is one of the schools in an ultra high COL area like Boston, NYC, or the SF Bay Area? 

I just got accepted into my top choice off the wait list!! There is hope!!!! 

@thirdfromthesun I don't think you sound ungrateful or elitist at all. Not to be melodramatic, but it's a huge decision that'll impact the rest of your life. Makes sense you want to be sure the program is right for you. For me, knowing that the students are miserable, the location is undesirable, and the faculty can't confidently tell you about their placement record would be extremely troubling. But you also say there is a great fit. How does your PI rank in their field? Are they young or experienced but still doing a lot of work? You say this is maybe a pattern for you. How many schools have you applied to each cycle and did they vary in rank, or are you interested in a specific research question that isn't common? I obviously can't tell you what's best for you, but I think the big things to weigh are the miserable students with the good fit. Did they go in thinking they had good fit too? Do you have a contact with a student in the program you can get some more detailed info like why they're miserable and if they have advice for avoiding that experience?