Xanthan

Hold on, let's back this train up a little. Trips to Europe and imported olive oil don't mean that those students come from the 1%. HOWEVER... I've noticed a great majority of PhD students I've met (both in my field and others) have one or two parents that got education beyond the bachelor's. My family was certainly never rich, but my father is a professor, and I'd be insincere to suggest his advice didn't help me navigate the admissions process.

I also taught high school in an inner city district... I suspect that a big part of the achievement gap is due to poor students not making good choices, often because they don't get the advice more affluent kids get. Let's face it: most of us here ARE from privileged backgrounds, on at least some level.

Wait... a faculty wanted you to get involved? That's dirty pool, and I'd stay well away. It's unfair to ask any student to stick their neck out like that. I'd claim conflict of interest to anyone who asks. Run in the other direction ASAP.

Wait... a faculty wanted you to get involved? That's dirty pool, and I'd stay well away. It's unfair to ask any student to stick their neck out like that. I'd claim conflict of interest to anyone who asks. Run in the other direction ASAP.

OK, there's good news and bad news.

The good news: if you want a PhD in mol bio, I'm confident that you'll be able to get one. Your GPA is a little low, but it's not so low that it will keep you out of programs... it may keep you out of top 10 places, but you can still get where you want to go. Solid GRE scores will help (aim for over 1200 combined). A stand out SOP will also be required.

The bad news: It's not a question of *if* you'll get in, but *when* and *where*. The biggest problem in your app isn't your GPA, it's your lack of research experience. And this will indirectly make your LORs weaker: the strongest LOR is one from a faculty you've done research with. Most applicants (especially so at more competitive places) will have more research than you, some a lot more.

So, if you apply this fall, you have (as I see it) 3 options:

1. apply anyway. You probably won't get into the most competitive schools (Harvard, Stanford, ect). You may also not get into schools in more desirable locations (Boston, NYC, California). A willingness to consider lower "ranked" schools or less desired locations will up your chances. If you do apply, I'd apply to at least 5 schools, even 10 wouldn't be excessive.

2. wait a year. In that year, you can continue to research. This will also (hopefully) lead to a stronger LOR from your PI. A paper would be nice, but isn't required. The extra year will boost your chances quite a lot.

3. apply for masters programs. What you really should look for are thesis based programs. Don't do one that's solely coursework; lack of classroom time isn't your main problem. You could also do an MS at a school that you'd like to do a PhD at... this would allow you become a known quantity to the faculty there, and it [might!] make it an easy transition into their program. Plus, you could bring up your GPA.

Of all the options, #3 is commonly done, but I consider it to be the WORST option. Why? For one, there's a strong chance you would have to pay out of pocket; many schools reserve their best funding for PhD students. Doing a PhD is already an iffy financial proposition, and paying for another degree makes it worse, especially for an MS that will be rendered irrelevant by a PhD. It's also the longest path: it will probably take at least 3 semesters to do, and the most important part of it, the thesis research, is at the end. If it takes 2 years (common), you probably wouldn't apply for the Fall 2013 class, you'd apply for Fall 2014. Are you prepared to wait that long?

My best advice is to a hybrid of #1 and #2, or only #2. The extra year really will help, and you'll stand a good chance of getting into a school that has a program you're excited to be at. If you want to apply this fall anyway, only apply to programs you'd be super excited to attend. Only apply to programs that are doing the research you are interested in (and have mentioned in your SOP). Don't apply to "safety" or "fallback" schools--you can consider that if you don't get in on the first round. The decision to apply this fall depends on how impatient you are to get started, and how competitive a school you want to attend.

I hope the above was helpful.

OK, there's good news and bad news.

The good news: if you want a PhD in mol bio, I'm confident that you'll be able to get one. Your GPA is a little low, but it's not so low that it will keep you out of programs... it may keep you out of top 10 places, but you can still get where you want to go. Solid GRE scores will help (aim for over 1200 combined). A stand out SOP will also be required.

The bad news: It's not a question of *if* you'll get in, but *when* and *where*. The biggest problem in your app isn't your GPA, it's your lack of research experience. And this will indirectly make your LORs weaker: the strongest LOR is one from a faculty you've done research with. Most applicants (especially so at more competitive places) will have more research than you, some a lot more.

So, if you apply this fall, you have (as I see it) 3 options:

1. apply anyway. You probably won't get into the most competitive schools (Harvard, Stanford, ect). You may also not get into schools in more desirable locations (Boston, NYC, California). A willingness to consider lower "ranked" schools or less desired locations will up your chances. If you do apply, I'd apply to at least 5 schools, even 10 wouldn't be excessive.

2. wait a year. In that year, you can continue to research. This will also (hopefully) lead to a stronger LOR from your PI. A paper would be nice, but isn't required. The extra year will boost your chances quite a lot.

3. apply for masters programs. What you really should look for are thesis based programs. Don't do one that's solely coursework; lack of classroom time isn't your main problem. You could also do an MS at a school that you'd like to do a PhD at... this would allow you become a known quantity to the faculty there, and it [might!] make it an easy transition into their program. Plus, you could bring up your GPA.

Of all the options, #3 is commonly done, but I consider it to be the WORST option. Why? For one, there's a strong chance you would have to pay out of pocket; many schools reserve their best funding for PhD students. Doing a PhD is already an iffy financial proposition, and paying for another degree makes it worse, especially for an MS that will be rendered irrelevant by a PhD. It's also the longest path: it will probably take at least 3 semesters to do, and the most important part of it, the thesis research, is at the end. If it takes 2 years (common), you probably wouldn't apply for the Fall 2013 class, you'd apply for Fall 2014. Are you prepared to wait that long?

My best advice is to a hybrid of #1 and #2, or only #2. The extra year really will help, and you'll stand a good chance of getting into a school that has a program you're excited to be at. If you want to apply this fall anyway, only apply to programs you'd be super excited to attend. Only apply to programs that are doing the research you are interested in (and have mentioned in your SOP). Don't apply to "safety" or "fallback" schools--you can consider that if you don't get in on the first round. The decision to apply this fall depends on how impatient you are to get started, and how competitive a school you want to attend.

I hope the above was helpful.

"It [grad school] makes worries about grown-up responsibilities like money and promotions and rent melt away"

Whew! I am so relieved! I mean, I have so few responsibilities as a grad student now. Just this week, I've had a final, a poster session, a paper presentation, a meeting with my program director, multiple administrative issues, 10 hours of class, lab work, training on a million dollar scientific instrument, and preparing for a meeting with my future advisor hashing out what I'm going to be working on for the next several years. Gee, it really is nice to have no responsibilities!

PS: Grad students don't worry about rent? I suspect my landlord would be shocked to hear that.

I think there are some good replies on this thread already. I want to add that, to me, choosing the right advisor is probably more important than choosing the right school--assuming the school meets basic criteria. Stipend levels do matter, especially as they relate to local cost of living. Administrative support is key: a program with 40-50 students should have a full time admin (and I don't mean the department secretary, who has other duties). Classes should not be too excessive. Qualifying should be to encourage student learning, not as a hazing ritual.
 
But if those things are there, and they are for a lot of schools, I think your happiness in grad school is most determined by your advisor. I feel I'm proof of this: like in a lot of programs, mine has lab rotations (I did 4). One was a big group with a PI that had too little time for me, and was not a good fit. Another was a lab I was really unhappy in--if it had been my only option, I'm sure I would have dropped out of grad school by now. Another had a nice PI, but wasn't working on questions I had any passion for. The one I joined had both I PI that I get along great with as a person, and is doing research I love.

Hold on, let's back this train up a little. Trips to Europe and imported olive oil don't mean that those students come from the 1%. HOWEVER... I've noticed a great majority of PhD students I've met (both in my field and others) have one or two parents that got education beyond the bachelor's. My family was certainly never rich, but my father is a professor, and I'd be insincere to suggest his advice didn't help me navigate the admissions process.

I also taught high school in an inner city district... I suspect that a big part of the achievement gap is due to poor students not making good choices, often because they don't get the advice more affluent kids get. Let's face it: most of us here ARE from privileged backgrounds, on at least some level.

Parents: Yay, we're so proud!

Grandparents: What, they *pay* you to go to school?

Friend: You're quitting your REAL job??

Sister: You're moving to ALABAMA?? [banjo playing impression]

My fish met the announcement with placid silence, as usual. I didn't tell them that I'm giving them away rather than move them 800 miles.

1. Qualifying exams: written, oral, or both? What's the pass rate? (PhD from low ranked school beats exiting with masters from a top school.) Do the required classes really prepare you for quals? (This should be asked to current students.) Or are quals just an excuse for faculty to abuse the students?

2. Geography: what's the cost of living? Weather? Overall culture? Will you have a car? What is public transit like there? (I can tell you, it's pretty non-existent in Princeton.) Also note that you're most likely to get a faculty position somewhere close to your grad school--it may not just be 5 years that you're in the area. Plus: proximity to major cities: Berkeley is near San Francisco. Princeton is near New York. Ann Arbor is near... Detroit.

3. Funding: not just stipend amounts, but also benefits: health insurance? Gym membership? Subsidized housing? And are the stipends for fellowship, TA, or RA? If TA or RA, how much work is required?

4. Time to graduation? Attrition rate? Learning is great, but without the piece of paper, you'll never get the job.

5. Are you moving with a significant other/family? What do they have to say about it? What would their job/school prospects be like?

Hold on, let's back this train up a little. Trips to Europe and imported olive oil don't mean that those students come from the 1%. HOWEVER... I've noticed a great majority of PhD students I've met (both in my field and others) have one or two parents that got education beyond the bachelor's. My family was certainly never rich, but my father is a professor, and I'd be insincere to suggest his advice didn't help me navigate the admissions process.

I also taught high school in an inner city district... I suspect that a big part of the achievement gap is due to poor students not making good choices, often because they don't get the advice more affluent kids get. Let's face it: most of us here ARE from privileged backgrounds, on at least some level.

Hold on, let's back this train up a little. Trips to Europe and imported olive oil don't mean that those students come from the 1%. HOWEVER... I've noticed a great majority of PhD students I've met (both in my field and others) have one or two parents that got education beyond the bachelor's. My family was certainly never rich, but my father is a professor, and I'd be insincere to suggest his advice didn't help me navigate the admissions process.

I also taught high school in an inner city district... I suspect that a big part of the achievement gap is due to poor students not making good choices, often because they don't get the advice more affluent kids get. Let's face it: most of us here ARE from privileged backgrounds, on at least some level.

Hold on, let's back this train up a little. Trips to Europe and imported olive oil don't mean that those students come from the 1%. HOWEVER... I've noticed a great majority of PhD students I've met (both in my field and others) have one or two parents that got education beyond the bachelor's. My family was certainly never rich, but my father is a professor, and I'd be insincere to suggest his advice didn't help me navigate the admissions process.

I also taught high school in an inner city district... I suspect that a big part of the achievement gap is due to poor students not making good choices, often because they don't get the advice more affluent kids get. Let's face it: most of us here ARE from privileged backgrounds, on at least some level.

Hold on, let's back this train up a little. Trips to Europe and imported olive oil don't mean that those students come from the 1%. HOWEVER... I've noticed a great majority of PhD students I've met (both in my field and others) have one or two parents that got education beyond the bachelor's. My family was certainly never rich, but my father is a professor, and I'd be insincere to suggest his advice didn't help me navigate the admissions process.

I also taught high school in an inner city district... I suspect that a big part of the achievement gap is due to poor students not making good choices, often because they don't get the advice more affluent kids get. Let's face it: most of us here ARE from privileged backgrounds, on at least some level.

Hold on, let's back this train up a little. Trips to Europe and imported olive oil don't mean that those students come from the 1%. HOWEVER... I've noticed a great majority of PhD students I've met (both in my field and others) have one or two parents that got education beyond the bachelor's. My family was certainly never rich, but my father is a professor, and I'd be insincere to suggest his advice didn't help me navigate the admissions process.

I also taught high school in an inner city district... I suspect that a big part of the achievement gap is due to poor students not making good choices, often because they don't get the advice more affluent kids get. Let's face it: most of us here ARE from privileged backgrounds, on at least some level.

Hold on, let's back this train up a little. Trips to Europe and imported olive oil don't mean that those students come from the 1%. HOWEVER... I've noticed a great majority of PhD students I've met (both in my field and others) have one or two parents that got education beyond the bachelor's. My family was certainly never rich, but my father is a professor, and I'd be insincere to suggest his advice didn't help me navigate the admissions process.

I also taught high school in an inner city district... I suspect that a big part of the achievement gap is due to poor students not making good choices, often because they don't get the advice more affluent kids get. Let's face it: most of us here ARE from privileged backgrounds, on at least some level.

Oh, and I kept thinking "poi," that Hawaiian side dish:

I disagree. Sure, learning is well and good, but there are lots of things you could learn, and don't, not because they're not valuable, but because you don't have time. (Latin, tap dancing, astrophysics.) And this assumes that a "harder" course will cause you to learn more, which I'm not sure is a reasonable assumption. The PChem I class may cover similar concepts as the Intro to PChem, but with more mathematical and experimental rigor. As a non-chemist, you may learn more by not having to focus on the math.

Frankly, the adcoms for PhD programs will look at your transcript, and they won't know the difference between "Intro to Physical Chemistry" and "Physical Chemistry I." They will know the difference between an A and a B: you will be judged on your GPA. And they will be looking at your letters of rec, and if you put in extra effort in your current lab, your letter will be (should be) better. You want to learn time management? Get a part time job, or juggle several hobbies with school, or get a dog (that's not a joke--dogs force you into having a set schedule).

There are several skills that become of great importance in grad school that undergrads often lack. It's OK to have a life and relax a bit--science isn't going anywhere. And you need to embrace the limits to your own knowledge... you can't know everything, and you need to know where to marshal your effort to best effect.

"It [grad school] makes worries about grown-up responsibilities like money and promotions and rent melt away"

Whew! I am so relieved! I mean, I have so few responsibilities as a grad student now. Just this week, I've had a final, a poster session, a paper presentation, a meeting with my program director, multiple administrative issues, 10 hours of class, lab work, training on a million dollar scientific instrument, and preparing for a meeting with my future advisor hashing out what I'm going to be working on for the next several years. Gee, it really is nice to have no responsibilities!

PS: Grad students don't worry about rent? I suspect my landlord would be shocked to hear that.

"It [grad school] makes worries about grown-up responsibilities like money and promotions and rent melt away"

Whew! I am so relieved! I mean, I have so few responsibilities as a grad student now. Just this week, I've had a final, a poster session, a paper presentation, a meeting with my program director, multiple administrative issues, 10 hours of class, lab work, training on a million dollar scientific instrument, and preparing for a meeting with my future advisor hashing out what I'm going to be working on for the next several years. Gee, it really is nice to have no responsibilities!

PS: Grad students don't worry about rent? I suspect my landlord would be shocked to hear that.

"It [grad school] makes worries about grown-up responsibilities like money and promotions and rent melt away"

Whew! I am so relieved! I mean, I have so few responsibilities as a grad student now. Just this week, I've had a final, a poster session, a paper presentation, a meeting with my program director, multiple administrative issues, 10 hours of class, lab work, training on a million dollar scientific instrument, and preparing for a meeting with my future advisor hashing out what I'm going to be working on for the next several years. Gee, it really is nice to have no responsibilities!

PS: Grad students don't worry about rent? I suspect my landlord would be shocked to hear that.

"It [grad school] makes worries about grown-up responsibilities like money and promotions and rent melt away"

Whew! I am so relieved! I mean, I have so few responsibilities as a grad student now. Just this week, I've had a final, a poster session, a paper presentation, a meeting with my program director, multiple administrative issues, 10 hours of class, lab work, training on a million dollar scientific instrument, and preparing for a meeting with my future advisor hashing out what I'm going to be working on for the next several years. Gee, it really is nice to have no responsibilities!

PS: Grad students don't worry about rent? I suspect my landlord would be shocked to hear that.

"It [grad school] makes worries about grown-up responsibilities like money and promotions and rent melt away"

Whew! I am so relieved! I mean, I have so few responsibilities as a grad student now. Just this week, I've had a final, a poster session, a paper presentation, a meeting with my program director, multiple administrative issues, 10 hours of class, lab work, training on a million dollar scientific instrument, and preparing for a meeting with my future advisor hashing out what I'm going to be working on for the next several years. Gee, it really is nice to have no responsibilities!

PS: Grad students don't worry about rent? I suspect my landlord would be shocked to hear that.

"It [grad school] makes worries about grown-up responsibilities like money and promotions and rent melt away"

Whew! I am so relieved! I mean, I have so few responsibilities as a grad student now. Just this week, I've had a final, a poster session, a paper presentation, a meeting with my program director, multiple administrative issues, 10 hours of class, lab work, training on a million dollar scientific instrument, and preparing for a meeting with my future advisor hashing out what I'm going to be working on for the next several years. Gee, it really is nice to have no responsibilities!

PS: Grad students don't worry about rent? I suspect my landlord would be shocked to hear that.

"It [grad school] makes worries about grown-up responsibilities like money and promotions and rent melt away"

Whew! I am so relieved! I mean, I have so few responsibilities as a grad student now. Just this week, I've had a final, a poster session, a paper presentation, a meeting with my program director, multiple administrative issues, 10 hours of class, lab work, training on a million dollar scientific instrument, and preparing for a meeting with my future advisor hashing out what I'm going to be working on for the next several years. Gee, it really is nice to have no responsibilities!

PS: Grad students don't worry about rent? I suspect my landlord would be shocked to hear that.