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  1. Hi all - I'm an electrical engineering graduate from the Class of 2017, and will be applying to grad schools this cycle for the Fall of 2019 (M.S. program in the same discipline). Unfortunately, I'm one of those people looking to get in somewhere with a bad GPA - specifically, a sub-3.0 GPA. It's literally right around the 3.0 cutoff (2.95), but my major GPA is lower than that; it's a B- average. I took a look at my transcript, and there really isn't anything good that I can take to shed any kind of positive light on either one of my GPAs. There is no significant upward trend at any point, and I didn't have any "special circumstances" that severely limited my ability to study and get good grades. The only upward trend that I've got is a jump from around a 2.86 my freshman year to a 3.05 during my sophomore year, but a measly jump like that during my underclassman years is insignificant. My academic marks as an undergraduate were pretty much always stagnant, and remained around a 3.0 until the very last moment. My reasons for the poor marks? I was involved, yes, but nothing crazy by normal standards. What really killed me, though, was my personality. I wasn't lazy, and I wasn't a party-goer. I was just afraid to ask questions, even when I didn't understand something. When I first stepped foot on campus, I had absolutely no background in the STEM fields aside from mandatory coursework at the high school level. In my first engineering class, I was taken aback by how much everybody else already knew about the discipline. Lecture material went right over my head, and I could not find any openings to jump into during discussions. I felt dumb as heck, but I tried to shoulder the burden on my own, tying myself to online resources and other methods that I could try from the comfort of my own laptop. Looking back, what I was afraid of wasn't really looking dumb in front of my professors; it was looking dumb in front of my peers, the guys and girls with whom I would be friends, colleagues, and acquaintances for at least the next four years. If you take out the disappointing academic performance, however, I do think that I can remain fairly competitive with a lot of other applicants out there. I went to a fairly well-regarded university ranked in the top 25. Among other things, I was involved in a design team, did a big-time internship at a big-time company, served as president of a professional organization, and am fortunate enough to be working as an electrical engineer post-graduation doing stuff that pretty much have everything to do with the line of study I would like to pursue in graduate school. But - graduate school is all about business, and you're not there to mess around. GPA still matters a lot, and I realize that. Here's my question to you all - I've read a lot of posts on people who have had bad uGPAs, but have had legitimate reasons for the bad marks - be it depression, family problems, or health problems. I've got none of that - I was just too afraid of looking dumb, and, in a way - too prideful to admit my deficiencies early on by asking for help. If there's one thing that I do have to say to that, it's that I really feel like I've improved on this attitude after starting to work as a full-time engineer. In school, I could remain in my little shell, but nobody would bat an eye - I could save my "embarrassment" at the expense of my GPA, but it was all private to me. At work, trying to act like I knew how to do things when I really didn't can lead to a bad product, strained relationships with clients, a bad reputation, and getting the axe - the list is endless. Performance has everything to do with job security. I swallowed my pride and approached work with humility, asking questions as often as I could, no matter how dumb - looking back now, one full year later, I can say that I really have learned a lot not just about my discipline, but about communication, as well. Can addressing something like this in my SOP help me come off as a more mature and prepared candidate for admission, or is that 2.95 on my transcript - especially since I have nobody to blame but me - going to keep admission committees skeptical about my potential and seriousness? In general, if you've got nobody to blame for bad marks but yourself, what's the best way to approach that issue in your writing? If there's one thing that I am absolutely confident about, it's my writing skills - I just don't want to get off on the wrong foot and jeopardize my chances. I have my range of schools that I am shooting for, but to put things into perspective - the schools that are higher on that list (i.e. my dream schools) are places like Texas (Austin), UCLA, and UCSD. I realize that some of these places have explicit GPA cutoffs of 3.0, and the average GPAs of admitted students is way up above the clouds, but f**k it, I'm going to shoot my shot anyway. Thanks!
  2. Hello everyone, I want to inquire about the application for bioinformatics phd. Any advice or comments is highly appreciated! my background: I got my bachelor degree in Biological Pharmacy in China, and my undergraduate GPA was really low, only 3.28.... I did many public health and pharmacy research and got some awards in public health domain. (I know my gpa is too low... I am a first-year master student in WashU med school, my major is biostatistics (actually the program length is only 18 months). I got all A/A+ in all courses until now. I have worked as a RA in a bioinfor lab since my program started. My major project is benchmarking and PI told me there would be a paper for my data (but will publish in late 2022). I also will get another chance to get a strong LOR from another washu professor. my aim: I plan to apply for bioinformatics/biomedical informatics PhD programs in US. Could anyone give me any advice like what kind of school I have high/medium/fair chance to be admitted? I am just really anxious and worrying recently because I certainly know my background is really weak.. Thanks again for your patience and advice!! This is my first time to post, so plz tell me if I post a wrong place.
  3. I am about to be a junior this Fall and currently have a 2.6 GPA right now. I also don't go to a very popular college and it's located in the city. I have low grades and I am thinking about either getting into a masters program for applied statistics or maybe applied math. However, I might have no chance because I got a few C grades in my early math classes and I had to withdraw from Calculus 1 twice. I am also interested in economics and I have a B and B- in the first two economics classes so far. I understand that I screwed up bad but I am thinking about changing my life around. I have a total of 5 w grades and I am thinking about trying to at least get into a masters program for higher education as that I am thinking about pursuing a career in data science or possibly a consulting/financial field like quantitative analysis. I have a total of 5 w grades on my transcript so far and I don't want to end up a failure. I just need brutal honesty. I am currently about to be a junior this Fall and if it's not possible for me to get into a master's program, what are some possible career choices for me? What else can I do? I don't have internships yet but I am looking for some experience in the field so that I can get accepted later possibly. Are online master's a good choice because I was just thinking about that. I also graduate in two years so does anyone have some advice for me?
  4. Hi GradCafe, The forum was of incredible help last year as I applied, so I am happy to give back by providing some casual application help. I expected my package to be weak so I applied to more than enough programs, but was surprised to be admitted to most of them. Feel free to ask me anything. Below are my stats: GPA: <3.1 GRE: 165/167 International, completed undergrad in a U.S. top 20 university. Work experience: 1 year Admitted: HKS, Harris, SAIS, Sanford, Michigan, Georgetown, Penn Fels, CMU...amongst others. Rejected: Goldman, SIPA
  5. I was a little disappointed with myself around a year ago when I had to start applying to grad schools. However, its not worth losing your head because you always have choices. Here is what the objective part of my application looked like- Application for the Masters program in Electrical Engineering 1) GPA: 6.79/10 (from a not very well known Indian university) 2) GRE: Q:170/170 V:158/170 AWA:3.5/6 3) IELTS: 8.5/9 4) Research experience: 3 months at a very well respected national lab, one year at an okayish lab (but really cool work), and another 3 months at another decent lab. 5) Publications: Zilch. Nada. Nothing 6) Projects: Over 10 good, unique projects (all small scale) 7) Extracurriculars: Two good hackathon wins. One okayish hackathon win. One national level debate win. State finalist for one good presentation event. One year of work experience at a tech startup. IEEE student branch president for a semester. My SoP originally was a regular one which stated what kind of research I want to be involved in, why I think I am good at it, why the school is a good fit for me and why I screwed up my undergrad GPA. Right about then, I developed a compression algorithm and I thought it would be fun to include some compressed data along with a link to a website (which I was hosting) where a reader could decompress it. I used the updated SoP in my applications to MIT, CalTech and University of California Santa Cruz. So here are my admits/rejects- I'll go with the rejects first- 1. MIT 2. CalTech 3. Northeastern University 4. Boston University 5. University at Buffalo, SUNY (Got rejected for EE, but was given an option to take robotics, data science or AI). Admits- 1. University of California Santa Cruz 2. University of Essex (in the UK). This was for a PhD program. I was told that my research at one of the labs was what got me selected. 3. University of Maryland Baltimore County 4. University of Texas Arlington 5. New Jersey Institute of Technology 6. UMass Dartmouth I finally decided to go with UMBC because their program fascinates me. UC Santa Cruz has a fantastic program too. However, I felt that UMBC was a far better fit for me. Having already screwed my undergrad because I disliked the university I went to, I did not want to do the same for my masters. Fit >>>> Rank or Reputation So I guess the point is that I did not really waste any time during my undergrad. I worked on what I loved and my work was always relevant to electrical engineering. I acknowledged that my GPA was pretty bad. And I like to think that my decent standardised test scores helped me quite a bit. I'd be happy to answer any questions.
  6. Hi everyone, I'm a recent B.S. graduate in desperate need of advice for biostatistics graduate school; I would liked to apply this fall (2020) to PhD/ MS. I'm considering biostatistics, as opposed to statistics, because I like how it has a substantive topic (e.g. biology, genetics, public health), that I really desired from my undergrad. I liked theory, but I was disappointed without a constant substantive topic of application. I'm open to both PhD and MS, but for PhD I'm hesitant since I am unsure of whether I'll like the bio/public health area, but its the best options for my goal: research. For masters, the idea of more loans is scary, but even if I don't like the bio area, I learn more methods with much better job opportunity. The main problem is my GPA. I transferred from community college and had a 3.0 GPA and had an average university GPA, but I took a lot of statistics courses at my university in 6 quarters and 2 summer sessions, so I'm hoping my course load proves I'm competent; I even took 5 technical courses in my last quarter. Here is some background/relevant information: Undergraduate: University of California, Davis Major: Statistics (data science track) GPA: 3.217 (major), 3.207 (overall) Letters of Rec: Have yet to request due to confusion on what to pursue GRE: haven't taken yet. Many are waiving due to COVID-19 Coursework (junior college semester system) Single Variable Calculus I C (fall 2017) Single Variable Calculus II A (spring 2017) Introduction to Linear Algebra A (fall 2017) Multivariable Calculus B (spring 2018) Data structures A (spring 2018) Introduction to Math Proofs A (spring 2018) Coursework (Davis quarter system): Regression Analysis B- (fall 2018) Probability Theory C+ (fall 2018) Analysis of Variance (ANOVA) B- (winter 2019) Math Statistics B (winter 2019) Intro to Data Structures B (winter 2019) Intro to Math Statistics B- (spring 2019) Multivariate Data Analysis B+ (spring 2019) Survey Sampling Theory B- (spring 2019) Applied Linear Algebra B (summer session 2019) Applied Time Series Analysis B+ (fall 2019) Analysis Categorical Data A (fall 2019) Statistical Data Science B+ (fall 2019) Statistical Data Technologies B- (winter 2020) Statistical Learning I B+ (winter 2020) Psychometrics (graduate level) A (winter 2020) Adv Statistical Computing A (spring 2020) Statistical Learning II B (spring 2020) Bayesian Stat Inference A. (spring 2020) Practice in Data Science B+ (spring 2020) Artificial Intelligence, NLP A (spring 2020) Any advice helps...
  7. I had a low gpa in undergrad, both due to some deaths in the family and some personal issues. I ended up at a 2.98 However, I have since gotten my act together in the last two years. I also got 170/167/5.5 on my only GRE. Is it possible for me to get into a good school or does my sub-3.0 GPA pretty much rule me out from the beginning?
  8. Hello everyone, As get closer&closer to graduating from my MA, I am starting to worry about my prospects for a Ph.d and would like to hear your opinions on whether I can get into a Ph.d programme in English that is worth doing with my terrible gpa. I got my BA from a university outside USA that is not particularly well know but hugely respected country-wide with a 3.37 gpa, and continued into an MA in the same university, of which I will be graduating with an even lower 3.26. The reason why my BA gpa was not very high was that I was only successful in courses that I was really interested in (and I was consistently successful in them) , but did not believe in the necessity of studying very hard (A level) for other core classes that were not my thing, and I cannot say I regret it very much. And later when started my MA, I came to realize that the programme' s structure and content did not fit my needs at all ,and thus being depressed I decided to do the minimal amount of coursework just to finish the degree and ended up receiving a few bad grades. However, one of the reasons why my gpa got even lower was that I attempted to take a completely irrelevant foreign language course with credit (because having a second language is important, right?) and finished it with a very low grade due to the great amount of coursework that it lay on me along with my other courses. To cut a very long story short, I got bad grades in my MA from courses that were not even in the area that I want to specialize in (which yet still fall into the category of "English" studies) and I do not really have other merits to compensate for this fact, either; I have not published yet (though I might), did not attend conferences (because I was not sure whether I finally wanted to do a phd) , yet I find that I am still hugely interested in the area I want to specialized in and I also know that I can be a good student when I want to. Do you think the the wrong path I took during my MA would completely bar me from a Ph.d that is worth doing ? I do not aim very high but I'd like to be in an institution where I could really flourish. And finally I'd like to add that while my MA dissertation is not (whose is?) brilliant, some people find it at least interesting. Any discouragement or encouragement is welcome, and thanks !
  9. Hey guys ! I’m currently taking prerequisites for grad school which I have been getting straight Bs in. Mostly high bs. I know that many of these programs accept higher GPAs on average and don’t know what to do. I’m not a great test taker, but everything I learn that’s applicable at my job I excel at. I work at a pediatric company as a child Development Specialist & a registered behavioral tech. I also work with SLPs providing support with speech goals & help with feeding goals as well. Will this experience help to balance out my low GPA & possibly low GRE score ? I know speech is highly competitive. If anyone has any advice, or similar experiences please let me know ! I’m beginning to stress as I apply to grad schools this fall ! HELP !
  10. Greetings everyone! So, I am happy to announce that I am applying for PhD Programs in English. However, there are some things that I may need help with in terms of applying. 1) I have a LOW gpa range across the board (2.55 overall, 2.6 in the last 60 units, 2.8 in the major). 2) I am not sure if I can get strong letters of recommendation from my professors, but I can still try to see if I can get some. 3) GRE Practice exam was at 143 Verbal, and 4.5 Analytical Writing. Although I have a low gpa, I KNOW what I want to pursue in terms of programs and faculty I would like to work with. Given these things, HOW do I get my GPA past an admissions committee? To my knowledge, they make cuts off the stack of applicants based on GPA. Any suggestions as to how I could shine on my application or improve my chances to applying for my prospective programs (UCI, UCSB, UCR, U of Washington, UT Austin) Thanks!
  11. Hello everyone, I would appreciate any comments, experience on how to go back to school with a really low gpa. I got my bachelors degree in kinesiology but now I don't find a way to pursue my dreams. I don't know how I got to this moment, that I didn't work enough for what I wanted. I know that I want to go back to school to improve myself but honestly I'm not smart to do hard courses like biology. Any tips to find myself in the right pathway? My dream has been always to become a doctor but I know that's not possible anymore due to my grades. Is there any chances I could go back to school to do something related to that?
  12. Hey y'all, Currently a second-year student at UCLA, who has an overall GPA of 2.477 (2.965 Major GPA) and no research experience at my current institution. Do I have some hope in getting accepted to a Social Psych Ph.D. program (e.g., the UCs) in the future? To begin with, I don't know where to start, nor do I know if I have the right mentality to apply (and even handle the rigors of graduate school)... Ever since I transferred from a community college to UCLA, I became more anxious and lacked the confidence to ask for help from my peers. I'm even embarrassed to apply for research positions, knowing that I'll get rejected because of other applicants who have higher GPAs and are more experienced. 😕 Any tips/suggestions, and has anyone ever been in a similar situation?
  13. I am planning to apply to Stanford's Earth System Science for PhD program next year. I am an international student but, I received both my Bachelor and Master degrees from the United States. My undergrad college was a small college from Midwest but, relatively well known. I did my Master at the OSU. My GPA was below 3 during undergrad due to medical conditions I was going through. I took 2 years off after graduation and worked as lab technician for those years. I worked my butt off during Master degree and finished it with GPA 3.95. I will have four 2 peer review papers as first author and 2 extension publications (one as first author and one as second author) which will be published or at the stage of being reviewed by the time I apply the school. There is another public policy paper that I will be writing in collaboration with an developmental organization from Asia but, I don't know it will be published by that time. My previous GRE score was 305 for verbal and quantitative but, I am retaking it again soon. Do you guys think my very low undergrad GPA will be a problem for Stanford when I have 3.95 from OSU? Please let me know if there is anything I can improve my stat.
  14. HI everyone, I am in my 3rd round of applications and i already have been rejected from my top school and waitlisted at another. I am still waiting to hear from 1 more school and still working on applying to a couple of more schools this round. I was talking to some family members who were asking why is it so hard to get accepted. I know a big part of my answer was because I have a low gpa from my bachelors degree, 2.7. I have worked really hard to raise my last 60 hours gpa to a still low 3.4 but I worked hard for it. I have retaken 2 speech courses that I initially recieved C's in and have also taken classes that are not required in the state of Texas to have a SLP assistance license. Oh and I have 4 years of experience as a speech assistance in schools. My question to all you wonderful speechies is if this is what is keeping me from being accepted. Is my low undergraduate gpa like a sore thumb sticking out? I have looked in to getting a second bachelors from ENMU in communication disorders and I believe I only need 3 more courses to achieve it. Will this help me become a better applicant? What do you guys think?
  15. Hi all, I have a pretty low undergrad GPA of about 3.3 in communication disorders but want to get into a masters for SLP somewhere. I have yet to take the GRE but most likely won't be doing too stellar on that either. I will be taking a gap year and then applying for the Fall 2020 cohort at schools. I have a lot of experience with a lot of observation/shadowing hours, being a paraprofessional, a direct care professional, and volunteering abroad. I'm wondering if I even have a chance of getting into any schools with this low GPA? Also willing to go anywhere for grad school so if you know anywhere that accepts lower GPAs let me know! Thanks:)
  16. Hi all, I have a pretty low undergrad GPA of about 3.3 in communication disorders but want to get into a masters for SLP somewhere. I have yet to take the GRE but most likely won't be doing too stellar on that either. I will be taking a gap year and then applying for the Fall 2020 cohort at schools. I have a lot of experience with a lot of observation/shadowing hours, being a paraprofessional, a direct care professional, and volunteering abroad. I'm wondering if I even have a chance of getting into any schools with this low GPA? Also willing to go anywhere for grad school so if you know anywhere that accepts lower GPAs let me know! Thanks:)
  17. I'm an international student with 2 years of work experience and an Integrated (UG+PG) MA in Development Studies, applying to US schools for a PhD in Anthropology. I feel the weak link in my profile is my undergrad GPA and I'm not sure what to do about it. II was in an inter-disciplinary programme and had to take compulsory courses in Economics and I ended up choosing a quant-heavy minor as well, which really brought my GPA down. These courses don't matter to Anthro, I guess and schools that I'm applying to have repeatedly mentioned that it's only one aspect of the application. But it still worries me. How does one address low GPA in undergrad as part of the application? I am choosing not to write this out in my Statement, but is there anywhere else I can talk about it, and even if I do, what do I say?
  18. i have a 2.65 cgpa in accounting and finance from a top university in south asia and i am applying gor the MA management in guelph ,what are my chances of getting in.I have a 2.81 in my last two years gpa and the requirement section mentions that guelph wants b- in last two years.Their buisness school however wants a b average for MA management programme.Please guide
  19. I graduated from undergrad 10 years ago with a terrible GPA (2.3). Now, I'm looking to attend an online grad school program in Computer Science. I'm a very different person than I was 10 years ago. I have over 10 years of industry experience now and have since been promoted to staff software engineer at a reputable company. I've kept up learning by completing over 10 MOOCs. It seems like a decade of experience matters much less than my low undergrad GPA. Is it even possible to get into a grad school program? Are there any schools that weight experience more than GPA? Feels like the only way to even be considered is to attend classes in a non-degree program and score a very high GPA. Any other ideas?
  20. Hey everyone. I need some tough love/advice. Here's my situation: In 2015 I finished undergrad with a cummulative 3.19 gpa. I was an slp major, and my gpa within-major was 3.70. Knowing my gpa was quite low, I decided to spend time working and gaining experience. I've spent the last 3 years working as an elementary ABA paraprofessional, nannying, volunteering at a veterans home, and volunteering at a pediatric hospital. I also took a coue ASL classes at the community college just because... My GRE scores aren't spectacular (157V, 148Q, 3W), but I'm studying now, focusing on my writing score. I have great relationships with my supervising SPED teacher, the behavior analyst, my SPED administrator, and the school slp. Could I ask them for rec letters instead of my previous professors? I know most grad programs ask for academic references... but I was an average student at best. I did well during my undergrad practicum, but that was 3 years ago, and I haven't kept in touch with those professors. I'm 100% willing to move for school and know I'll need to cast a wide net if I want a shot at getting in. I'm not sure how to organize my SOP, but I know it has to seriously stand out. Is there anything else I can do to make myself marketable? I assume my GPA is the biggest red flag, but there's nothing I can do about it (right?) All comments, advice, and questions welcome. Has anyone else been this hopeless? TLDR: low gpa, low GRE, non-academic recs. Help?
  21. So I'm in the process of picking graduate schools to apply to and Im having a hard time of getting past the mentality of applying for the best schools in my field and seeing what happens? (Yale BBS, NYU, Northwestern, Princeton, Brown-basically all the reaches). I can stay a second year in my current postbacc fellowship and have been advised to do so if i want a shot at these schools, but as i have fee waivers and the worst they can say is no, my head is stuck on aiming high and just taking feedback this round. Wondering what some match schools would be though! Also, unsure if id have a somewhat better shot applying to biology umbrella programs for neuroscience or straight into neuroscience? Undergrad Institution: Big stateMajor(s): NeuroscienceOverall GPA: 3.3, in major probably around 3.05 (pretty average student except for chem/ochem-mostly B's, pretty much few equal in science A's-C's cancelled out)Type of Student: (Domestic/International, male/female, minority?): Domestic, female, Puerto Rican & African AmericanGRE Scores:Q: 156/61%V: 159/83%W: 4.5/82% Other: Several extensive research experiences, (3 academic years, 2 summer fellowships, presented posters at 2 university conferences and won awards, ABRCMS national conference poster award, 2 travel awards, 1 middle author publication in submission, writing a review paper with a well known PI now), 3 pretty good LORs, and the typical grad cv full of extracurriculars I held 2 jobs most of my 3 years of undergrad, and graduated in 3 years rather than taking the 4th to improve my gpa due to financial considerations. Im currently in an NIH funded postbacc at Mayo Clinic. Bless you for reading this far, any and all advice is greatly appreciated!
  22. I will be applying to MSW programs soon in NYC. Does anyone know if your undergrad GPA gets factored into your graduate program GPA. For example, do they take your undergrad social work classes and factor it into your new GPA in the program or your overall GPA? Thanks.
  23. Hello all, I graduated from U of T life sci with a GPA of 2.9 (sad I know). I've applied to grad school twice and got rejected both times. I'm still waiting to hear back from my grad school application this year for Fall 2018 entry. I am wondering if I should go back to school and take more undergrad courses and repair my GPA as much as I possibly can. Any advice?? Any success stories out there of people who had low GPAs and made it to med school??
  24. Hi! I am a student at UNC Chapel Hill and only started taking SLP pre-reqs my junior year, and in the years before this I was a nursing/PA student with a low GPA. My GPA in pre-reqs is a 3.7/3.8, and my overall GPA is a 3.1. My GRE scores are alright... 159 V, 153 Q, 5.5 W. I have lots of experience working with my desired community (children) and am looking to participate in research this coming semester (I will be a senior in Fall 2018.) I am also going abroad this summer to Belize and volunteering at a clinic there. I guess what I'm wondering is.. do I have a chance anywhere? With that low of a GPA, but good LOR, experience, and what not, can I still get into my desired programs? Programs I know I'll be applying to are UNC, UNCG, ECU, App State, U of Tenn, U of Memphis, FSU, U of Florida. Programs I may be applying to are UCF, Jacksonville, Radford, NC Central, Western, GWU, etc. Thanks for any help, I am very worried lol
  25. Hi! So the past few months for me have filled with endless stress and self doubt about applying to grad school and my future in general. I only applied to two schools because I didn't have much confidence that I would get in anywhere and didn't want to waste the money just to be rejected. I got rejected from University of Rhode Island and am currently waitlisted at LIU Post, which I'm actually shocked I even got waitlisted to be completely honest. As hopeful as I am that I'll get excepted, I know I need to be realistic. I have a 3.3 GPA, but with the way my grades are looking this semester, it's probably going to go down to a 3.2. I wanted to see if I could retake some classes in the summer to raise my GPA but my college doesn't let you retake classes to be factored into your GPA after you graduated. However, I could retake them as a nonmatriculated student, but it would make no difference in my GPA. Would grad schools even care if I did this? I was thinking about retaking anatomy because I got a C and I'm especially nervous about that being a CSD course, but I don't want to spend $1000 retaking it for grad schools not to even care. Anyway, does anyone know any ways I could increase my chances of getting accepted, or am I doomed because of my GPA? Am I even being realistic applying with a 3.2/3.3? And does anyone know of any backup plans/other career options with a bachelor's and CSD? I'm sorry this is so long, I'm so beyond stressed and none of my family or friends understand because to them, "I do have good grades". Thank you so much!!
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