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Interviews/Acceptances/Rejections Fall 2019

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18 minutes ago, SgtDonut said:

UChicago and NYU acceptances on the board... looks like it's gonna be a rough day.

Yeah, one of my UChicago interviews went really well so I was hoping, but it looks like a no... rip

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2 hours ago, TheBunny said:

I was not invited to or interviewed, too. But I e-mailed the school, and they told me to wait until Mid- to Late- February for finalized decisions. So, don't lose your hope. Which area do you want to work on?

Thanks a lot! Will still try to be hopeful, my interests are in studying unorganized urban economies.

On a side note, this knowledge really hit me hard, I was imagining my PoI reading through and rejecting my application.. led me to her twitter page and then I "followed" her out of genuine curiosity. In two minutes, she follows me back. I shit-post a lot on twitter, so now i am wondering if she would read them and did i just f**k up my application unnecessarily. 

 

"is there no way out of the mind?"

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8 minutes ago, baozi said:

Yeah, one of my UChicago interviews went really well so I was hoping, but it looks like a no... rip

I wouldn't worry yet. There's only a couple up on the board, and they might be from POIs, not automated letters. So anything can still happen :) 

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Anyone wants to claim NYU acceptance?? Congratulations! was it an automated email?

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20 minutes ago, SgtDonut said:

I wouldn't worry yet. There's only a couple up on the board, and they might be from POIs, not automated letters. So anything can still happen :) 

Maybe? I’m not holding out hope though as Uchicago admittances all seem to come out pretty close together. I also somehow got locked out of my application account which is driving me nuts as I just want that second confirmation haha. Just let me know lmao

Edited by baozi

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11 minutes ago, artvandaley said:

Thanks a lot! Will still try to be hopeful, my interests are in studying unorganized urban economies.

On a side note, this knowledge really hit me hard, I was imagining my PoI reading through and rejecting my application.. led me to her twitter page and then I "followed" her out of genuine curiosity. In two minutes, she follows me back. I shit-post a lot on twitter, so now i am wondering if she would read them and did i just f**k up my application unnecessarily. 

 

"is there no way out of the mind?"

I also did this - followed two POIs when I was working on applications, and they both followed me back, which I was not expecting. Instant regret.

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16 minutes ago, utley24 said:

Depends somewhat on your definition of "middle tier" , but I don't necessarily think this is great advice, especially if you have a decent job to stay at in the meantime (if you hate your job or are coming out of undergrad with no job offers, then that's much tougher lol).

But anyone who follows the sociology job market knows how brutal it is--and I think it's important for everyone to be real with themselves about the end result for this degree. For example, two solidly middle tier programs, Boulder and UC Riverside, have one placement each so far this job market cycle--at SUNY Cortland and Penn State Abington (a satellite campus for Penn State). Would you be happy going to school making $25k per year for 5-6 years and end up living and working in those places? Maybe, but I know a lot of people (myself included) who would find that difficult to swallow. 

So, all that being said--if you have even just a decent job to hang onto for another year, and think you can improve your application a bit and get into a significantly higher ranked program, it's worth thinking long and hard about. Yes, this month sucks, but it's just one month in a (hopefully) very long career. Could pay off a lot to hold out and try again. 

I definitely agree with this advice. The lower-ranked programs tend to place more people in adjunct or lecturer positions, which have typically have low salaries and weak job security. However, I think going into a lower-ranked program with your mind open to non-academic jobs could be smart. If you don't get an academic position, a sociology PhD can be a useful credential in all sorts of roles/organizations across the public, private, and nonprofit sectors. So yes, it's risky and potentially a "bad investment" but the degree itself can help you advance your career, even if you don't go into academia.

But to your point, let's compare some placement records from previous years. A grad student at Northwestern sent me this thread from another forum a couple months ago that has these data (apparently the forum is a total cesspool aside from useful information like this, because some schools don't list their placement records on their websites) .The list doesn't include postdoctoral positions, so this is just tenure-track jobs. Last year, UCLA placed students in jobs at Toronto, New Mexico, Loyola Marymount, Barnard, Ohio State, CSU Channel Islands, University of Illinois-Chicago, and Hunan University in China. Wisconsin placed graduates at University of Denver, Copenhagen Business School, Tufts, Chinese University of Hong Kong, and Colorado State. We can debate which school has a better record in this particular year, although I would probably rather work at more of the schools where UCLA placed its graduates.This all varies year to year by cohort size of course, but I think it can be helpful to look at the "caliber" of where grad students actually end up after they finish their PhD (even though the sample size is small and there are so many variables influencing who gets what job where). You can also look at placement across the last five years or so to get a better idea of postgraduate outcomes for different school.

There is a lot of variation among lower-ranked schools. Last year, Emory appears to have placed one person in a tenure-track position at Utah State. UMass placed graduates at Missouri State, South Carolina, and Sam Houston State University. But then you have Vanderbilt placing five people at UNC, Rutgers, VCU, George Mason, and Arkansas (arguably a more desirable list of schools than Wisconsin). Just something to take into account when deciding where/whether to go. I definitely plan to ask about placement and professional development at admitted student days.

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3 minutes ago, SgtDonut said:

I definitely agree with this advice. The lower-ranked programs tend to place more people in adjunct or lecturer positions, which have typically have low salaries and weak job security. However, I think going into a lower-ranked program with your mind open to non-academic jobs could be smart. If you don't get an academic position, a sociology PhD can be a useful credential in all sorts of roles/organizations across the public, private, and nonprofit sectors. So yes, it's risky and potentially a "bad investment" but the degree itself can help you advance your career, even if you don't go into academia.

But to your point, let's compare some placement records from previous years. A grad student at Northwestern sent me this thread from another forum a couple months ago that has these data (apparently the forum is a total cesspool aside from useful information like this, because some schools don't list their placement records on their websites) .The list doesn't include postdoctoral positions, so this is just tenure-track jobs. Last year, UCLA placed students in jobs at Toronto, New Mexico, Loyola Marymount, Barnard, Ohio State, CSU Channel Islands, University of Illinois-Chicago, and Hunan University in China. Wisconsin placed graduates at University of Denver, Copenhagen Business School, Tufts, Chinese University of Hong Kong, and Colorado State. We can debate which school has a better record in this particular year, although I would probably rather work at more of the schools where UCLA placed its graduates.This all varies year to year by cohort size of course, but I think it can be helpful to look at the "caliber" of where grad students actually end up after they finish their PhD (even though the sample size is small and there are so many variables influencing who gets what job where). You can also look at placement across the last five years or so to get a better idea of postgraduate outcomes for different school.

There is a lot of variation among lower-ranked schools. Last year, Emory appears to have placed one person in a tenure-track position at Utah State. UMass placed graduates at Missouri State, South Carolina, and Sam Houston State University. But then you have Vanderbilt placing five people at UNC, Rutgers, VCU, George Mason, and Arkansas (arguably a more desirable list of schools than Wisconsin). Just something to take into account when deciding where/whether to go. I definitely plan to ask about placement and professional development at admitted student days.

Absolutely, I think keeping yourself open to non-academia positions is smart...honestly, for everyone who doesn't go to a top 5-10 school, we should all keep our minds open to that with the way the job market is trending.

Focusing on placement records is so important and I feel like applicants honestly over-value fit, potential advisors, etc. when looking at programs. First and foremost, other than "could I live in this place for 5-6 years", the primary question applicants ask should be "what is their job placement?" I'd encourage everyone here to do some deep dives into placement track records like SgtDonut did.Because it also sometimes works the other way, where programs are under-rated and actually have solid placement records...perhaps Vanderbilt is one as SgtDonut pointed out.

But in general, I just think that holding out for the best possible program, even if it means waiting a year, is *nearly* always worth it. We can't forget how huge of an investment this is, and it's just reality that schools ranked 40+ generally don't place a lot of graduates in R1 TT jobs. 

 

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35 minutes ago, SgtDonut said:

I definitely agree with this advice. The lower-ranked programs tend to place more people in adjunct or lecturer positions, which have typically have low salaries and weak job security. However, I think going into a lower-ranked program with your mind open to non-academic jobs could be smart. If you don't get an academic position, a sociology PhD can be a useful credential in all sorts of roles/organizations across the public, private, and nonprofit sectors. So yes, it's risky and potentially a "bad investment" but the degree itself can help you advance your career, even if you don't go into academia.

But to your point, let's compare some placement records from previous years. A grad student at Northwestern sent me this thread from another forum a couple months ago that has these data (apparently the forum is a total cesspool aside from useful information like this, because some schools don't list their placement records on their websites) .The list doesn't include postdoctoral positions, so this is just tenure-track jobs. Last year, UCLA placed students in jobs at Toronto, New Mexico, Loyola Marymount, Barnard, Ohio State, CSU Channel Islands, University of Illinois-Chicago, and Hunan University in China. Wisconsin placed graduates at University of Denver, Copenhagen Business School, Tufts, Chinese University of Hong Kong, and Colorado State. We can debate which school has a better record in this particular year, although I would probably rather work at more of the schools where UCLA placed its graduates.This all varies year to year by cohort size of course, but I think it can be helpful to look at the "caliber" of where grad students actually end up after they finish their PhD (even though the sample size is small and there are so many variables influencing who gets what job where). You can also look at placement across the last five years or so to get a better idea of postgraduate outcomes for different school.

There is a lot of variation among lower-ranked schools. Last year, Emory appears to have placed one person in a tenure-track position at Utah State. UMass placed graduates at Missouri State, South Carolina, and Sam Houston State University. But then you have Vanderbilt placing five people at UNC, Rutgers, VCU, George Mason, and Arkansas (arguably a more desirable list of schools than Wisconsin). Just something to take into account when deciding where/whether to go. I definitely plan to ask about placement and professional development at admitted student days.

Oh man, this makes me feel better about maybe going to Austin and their placement looks decent.

Another good resource on placement is here: https://scatter.wordpress.com/2018/01/08/who-hires-whom/ (sorry my hotlink isn’t cooperating on mobile). This works with older data though, so it doesn’t capture recent departmental changes as well as job rumors.

Edited by baozi
One day I will edit things before posting

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2 minutes ago, baozi said:

Oh man, this makes me feel better about maybe going to Austin ad their placement looks decent.

Another good resource on placement is here: https://scatter.wordpress.com/2018/01/08/who-hires-whom/ (sorry my hotlink isn’t cooperating on mobile). This works in older data though, so it doesn’t capture recent departmental changes as well as the job rumors does.

I feel similarly. So far the only places I've been admitted are UCLA and UT Austin, and it's a really tough call between the two. That data makes me even more sad about not getting into Michigan lol

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Are there good resources on how to send back rejections to admission offers? And should I do this before I even visit a school? Some are not my top tier, but it matters to me how much I get along with my mentors over most other things. I have heard horror stories about graduate students and advisors not getting along. 

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Just now, ErikaFate said:

Are there good resources on how to send back rejections to admission offers? And should I do this before I even visit a school? Some are not my top tier, but it matters to me how much I get along with my mentors over most other things. I have heard horror stories about graduate students and advisors not getting along. 

If u have time and money to go and visit, I would recommend u to do so. I also heard awful stories about a professor at TAMU where I was planning to apply until I hear those stories.

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1 hour ago, utley24 said:

Depends somewhat on your definition of "middle tier" , but I don't necessarily think this is great advice, especially if you have a decent job to stay at in the meantime (if you hate your job or are coming out of undergrad with no job offers, then that's much tougher lol).

But anyone who follows the sociology job market knows how brutal it is--and I think it's important for everyone to be real with themselves about the end result for this degree. For example, two solidly middle tier programs, Boulder and UC Riverside, have one placement each so far this job market cycle--at SUNY Cortland and Penn State Abington (a satellite campus for Penn State). Would you be happy going to school making $25k per year for 5-6 years and end up living and working in those places? Maybe, but I know a lot of people (myself included) who would find that difficult to swallow. 

So, all that being said--if you have even just a decent job to hang onto for another year, and think you can improve your application a bit and get into a significantly higher ranked program, it's worth thinking long and hard about. Yes, this month sucks, but it's just one month in a (hopefully) very long career. Could pay off a lot to hold out and try again. 

I also hope I didn't come off too negative with this or stoke anyone's anxiety further, it's just something I'd been hearing from others that I trust, and something I've obviously been thinking about a lot myself--and I also should point out that tons of people have gone to mid-tier schools and had wonderful careers and lives, and none of this is in any way an indication of our worth as people or future scholars. Just all about expectations, I suppose.

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28 minutes ago, SgtDonut said:

I feel similarly. So far the only places I've been admitted are UCLA and UT Austin, and it's a really tough call between the two. That data makes me even more sad about not getting into Michigan lol

Yeah, same. The UT Austin funding offer though is depressingly low. If you can’t get any grants/fellowships for the summer, you’re basically fucked if you want to live alone, and that makes me nervous.

I sent out some job apps in January, and I’m getting traction on some industry jobs that usually require a PhD (and I was planning on pursuing if tenure track wasn’t in the cards post PhD), so I’ve started really freaking out about the PhD job market and whether it is worth it. I guess I’ll just have to wait and see how it plays out.

I hope it works out for everyone though! It just really sucks that applications, PhD programs, and the following job market are such a nightmare and require so much sacrifice.

Edited by baozi

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1 hour ago, Koba17 said:

same this is killing me

Are we sure those two Chicago results were genuine? Is anyone claiming them here? The portal is just as it was. Has anyone else heard from them ?

Pretty sure now that this one shameless troll!

Edited by DuBois

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I was looking at the US News rankings to see if any other schools are punching above their weight for placement, and I decided to take a look at the rankings methodology. This is what it says...

"Rankings of doctoral programs in the social sciences and humanities are based solely on the results of peer assessment surveys sent to academics in each discipline ... These are the number of schools with doctoral programs surveyed in fall 2016: economics (138); English (155); history (151); political science (120); psychology (255); and sociology (118). And these were the response rates: economics (23 percent), English (14 percent), history (15 percent), political science (24 percent), psychology (14 percent) and sociology (33 percent)."

So... the rankings are based entirely off random professors' opinions of other schools at one out of three sociology departments. And these professors probably don't know much about most other schools. How ridiculous!

 

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1 minute ago, SgtDonut said:

I was looking at the US News rankings to see if any other schools are punching above their weight for placement, and I decided to take a look at the rankings methodology. This is what it says...

"Rankings of doctoral programs in the social sciences and humanities are based solely on the results of peer assessment surveys sent to academics in each discipline ... These are the number of schools with doctoral programs surveyed in fall 2016: economics (138); English (155); history (151); political science (120); psychology (255); and sociology (118). And these were the response rates: economics (23 percent), English (14 percent), history (15 percent), political science (24 percent), psychology (14 percent) and sociology (33 percent)."

So... the rankings are based entirely off random professors' opinions of other schools at one out of three sociology departments. And these professors probably don't know much about most other schools. How ridiculous!

 

The methodology sounds sloppy at best lol

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3 minutes ago, SgtDonut said:

I was looking at the US News rankings to see if any other schools are punching above their weight for placement, and I decided to take a look at the rankings methodology. This is what it says...

"Rankings of doctoral programs in the social sciences and humanities are based solely on the results of peer assessment surveys sent to academics in each discipline ... These are the number of schools with doctoral programs surveyed in fall 2016: economics (138); English (155); history (151); political science (120); psychology (255); and sociology (118). And these were the response rates: economics (23 percent), English (14 percent), history (15 percent), political science (24 percent), psychology (14 percent) and sociology (33 percent)."

So... the rankings are based entirely off random professors' opinions of other schools at one out of three sociology departments. And these professors probably don't know much about most other schools. How ridiculous!

 

This is why it seems like a lot of people (and I've started doing this as a result) think about rankings in terms of tiers. Like, is the 14th ranked school actually better than the 20th ranked? Probably not. But the schools in the top 10 are certainly "better" than those ranked in the 30s. I think trying to be any more granular than that is silly. 

It seems like top 8-10ish is the top tier, then 10-30ish is second, then 30-50, then 50+. That's how I have them categorized in my head. 

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Anyone hear anything from UConn? I saw one acceptance from last week. I wasn't rejected, but I didn't see anything about being waitlisted either.

 

Also, by chance did anyone apply to Lehigh Uni's MA program?

Edited by bandanajack

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1 minute ago, utley24 said:

This is why it seems like a lot of people (and I've started doing this as a result) think about rankings in terms of tiers. Like, is the 14th ranked school actually better than the 20th ranked? Probably not. But the schools in the top 10 are certainly "better" than those ranked in the 30s. I think trying to be any more granular than that is silly. 

It seems like top 8-10ish is the top tier, then 10-30ish is second, then 30-50, then 50+. That's how I have them categorized in my head. 

I think of the top five as the highest tier, then 5-15, 15-25, 25-35, 35-50, and then above 50. I don't have any justification for this, except the top five seem so unattainable to me that I view them as "the end of the line" as far as my chances go. And so far my assessment has been spot on. Lol

For me, after the top 15 I worry that I won't have a shot at a good academic job. The lowest ranked school I applied to was Emory, and I know I would get a great education there and have five to seven years to study what I love! But I know it would seriously curtail my career opportunities. I wish rankings didn't matter so much, but there's a huge surplus of PhDs and a shortage of jobs to go around...

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3 hours ago, gradgirrrl said:

For those w/ Yale interviews- 
How did they go? I think today is the last day they are interviewing so I am hoping we'll hear before the end of the week. My tummy keeps doing somersaults. Did they tell you anything during yours about when we'd hear back? I was too nervous to ask.

Mine was... eh. My POI told me that the committee will be meeting Thursday (tomorrow) to decide on the final group of applicants. He said he would email me either way. Fingers crossed! 

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1 minute ago, NReken said:

Mine was... eh. My POI told me that the committee will be meeting Thursday (tomorrow) to decide on the final group of applicants. He said he would email me either way. Fingers crossed! 

Good Luck!

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1 minute ago, NReken said:

Mine was... eh. My POI told me that the committee will be meeting Thursday (tomorrow) to decide on the final group of applicants. He said he would email me either way. Fingers crossed! 

oh lordddddd thanks for the update. mine was "eh" as well, less rigorous and specific than I had hoped and prepared for. fingers crossed for us both. 

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