cupofnimbus Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 There was a fair bit of conversation last night after I signed off, and a lot of good feelings floating around. Seconding all of them. You're good folk I think this is perhaps an overly nihilistic view of admissions. Lower-ranked schools accept a higher percentage of people, which often happens to comprise the people strong enough to get in at better-ranked programs plus the people who were just on the edge and aren't subject to getting poached. Sure, there's noise, and candidates don't have a universal quality ordering across schools, but I am still somewhat surprised given that I thought the fit with faculty at Northwestern was pretty strong. It's hard to say why a school might or might not reject someone. Maybe other applicants were better-suited for the department's interests, or Northwestern figured that you'd be better fitting somewhere else you'd applied, or... who knows! The decision-making process seems to differ by program. Different programs attract different applicants, and some the same applicants. Programs may look for something moving forward. I don't think you can know exactly what helps or hinders your application unless you ask the department to give you feedback. It looks like you're having a pretty good cycle so far, so good luck and don't let a stray rejection bother you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeudepaume Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) I think this is perhaps an overly nihilistic view of admissions. Lower-ranked schools accept a higher percentage of people, which often happens to comprise the people strong enough to get in at better-ranked programs plus the people who were just on the edge and aren't subject to getting poached. Sure, there's noise, and candidates don't have a universal quality ordering across schools, but I am still somewhat surprised given that I thought the fit with faculty at Northwestern was pretty strong. It's hard to say why a school might or might not reject someone. Maybe other applicants were better-suited for the department's interests, or Northwestern figured that you'd be better fitting somewhere else you'd applied, or... who knows! The decision-making process seems to differ by program. Different programs attract different applicants, and some the same applicants. Programs may look for something moving forward. I don't think you can know exactly what helps or hinders your application unless you ask the department to give you feedback. It looks like you're having a pretty good cycle so far, so good luck and don't let a stray rejection bother you. Exactly. There are lots of factors that define whether you will get in or not (which varies from year to year too), and the acceptance rate for good schools (e.g. 8-9% for Northwestern) is low enough to suggest that there may be plenty of other people who are just as qualified. Nothing nihilistic in believing that there are more than 5 people who are equally fit for admission. That said your fit with the department is a different story; I understand how that may be upsetting. Edited February 21, 2014 by jeudepaume Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mv0027 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 alright folks, looks like this cycle is over for me! I got one school to visit and I guess I'll decide after that! It's been real. Some great e-friends here! AuldReekie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeudepaume Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) alright folks, looks like this cycle is over for me! I got one school to visit and I guess I'll decide after that! It's been real. Some great e-friends here! I've reached the green up-arrow quota again. Congratulations on your official end of the successful cycle. Good luck with your visit. Edited February 21, 2014 by jeudepaume AuldReekie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmad Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 i would expect both hopkins and penn to release today - both tend to do so on fridays, and last week's snowstorm might have just pushed them back a week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cupofnimbus Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 alright folks, looks like this cycle is over for me! I got one school to visit and I guess I'll decide after that! It's been real. Some great e-friends here! Congratulations, and best of luck to you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anxious2151 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 if yale doesn't release today, i shall flip tables in despair at having to weather another silent weekend. cane14 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astreaux Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 if yale doesn't release today, i shall flip tables in despair at having to weather another silent weekend. A silent weekend will eat holes in my stomach. I board a Europe-bound plane shortly before the crack of dawn on Tuesday morning for a "romantic anniversary celebration." It's going to be a lot more romantic if I'm not checking my email every five minutes. There will probably be lots of conversations about where we will be living in the fall... wish I could board that plane with all answers in hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeudepaume Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 if yale doesn't release today, i shall flip tables in despair at having to weather another silent weekend. And I'll join you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeudepaume Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 A silent weekend will eat holes in my stomach. I board a Europe-bound plane shortly before the crack of dawn on Tuesday morning for a "romantic anniversary celebration." It's going to be a lot more romantic if I'm not checking my email every five minutes. There will probably be lots of conversations about where we will be living in the fall... wish I could board that plane with all answers in hand. Oh that's gonna be even more romantic!—to show a complete determination not to open your email for the entire night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cupofnimbus Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 A silent weekend will eat holes in my stomach. I board a Europe-bound plane shortly before the crack of dawn on Tuesday morning for a "romantic anniversary celebration." It's going to be a lot more romantic if I'm not checking my email every five minutes. There will probably be lots of conversations about where we will be living in the fall... wish I could board that plane with all answers in hand. It is futile to tell you to enjoy the vacation, but take heart that you have some good prospects ahead of you and, hey, anniversary trip to Europe! (Enjoy it!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boazczoine Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I'm on a plaaaaaane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonestarflag Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Exactly. There are lots of factors that define whether you will get in or not (which varies from year to year too), and the acceptance rate for good schools (e.g. 8-9% for Northwestern) is low enough to suggest that there may be plenty of other people who are just as qualified. Nothing nihilistic in believing that there are more than 5 people who are equally fit for admission. That said your fit with the department is a different story; I understand how that may be upsetting. Yeah, I mean there are plenty of schools on here where two applicants apply to Schools A and B, one gets into A but not B, the other gets into B but not A. I hate to think some decisions are rather arbitrary, but some decisions are rather arbitrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cupofnimbus Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Yeah, I mean there are plenty of schools on here where two applicants apply to Schools A and B, one gets into A but not B, the other gets into B but not A. I hate to think some decisions are rather arbitrary, but some decisions are rather arbitrary. I don't think there's a foolproof formula for acceptance or rejection. It was one of the first things that one of my LORs tried to impart on me very early in the process, and though it's disconcerting not to be able to fully gauge what will happen based on measurable qualifications (GPA, GRE scores, rank of prior institution, rank of LORs, number of papers presented/published), it's the nature of the beast. We talk a lot about the notoriously arbitrary perception of "fit" with a program, and I think that intangible quality has so much to do with decisions by departments. I think it affects our decisions to apply as well, to such a degree that I can think of many programs off-hand I didn't apply to because I thought the faculty research or overall program environment wouldn't suit me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anxious2151 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 A silent weekend will eat holes in my stomach. I board a Europe-bound plane shortly before the crack of dawn on Tuesday morning for a "romantic anniversary celebration." It's going to be a lot more romantic if I'm not checking my email every five minutes. There will probably be lots of conversations about where we will be living in the fall... wish I could board that plane with all answers in hand. congratulations on your anniversary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astreaux Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) Yeah, I mean there are plenty of schools on here where two applicants apply to Schools A and B, one gets into A but not B, the other gets into B but not A. I hate to think some decisions are rather arbitrary, but some decisions are rather arbitrary. I have a couple of friends who are faculty members on adcoms this year, both in fields unrelated to political science. Both have been kind enough to listen to me mindf^k (sorry, there's no polite synonym) why I've gotten into certain programs that seemed beyond my reach, and flatly rejected from programs that seemed like great fits with better odds. The only pattern I could discern is that all of the programs that accepted me were public, and most of the ones that rejected me were private. One of the friends gently smacked me upside the head and said that I was looking for patterns where there were none. He went on to say that "if you could suspend your life and apply again next year with the exact same record, you would get different results." Edit: punctuation. Edited February 21, 2014 by mygrotianmoment lonestarflag, gradcafe26 and AuldReekie 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astreaux Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 (And I am out of up votes, but thank you to everyone for the anniversary wishes!) boazczoine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boazczoine Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I have a couple of friends who are faculty members on adcoms this year, both in fields unrelated to political science. Both have been kind enough to listen to me mindf^k (sorry, there's no polite synonym) why I've gotten into certain programs that seemed beyond my reach, and flatly rejected from programs that seemed like great fits with better odds. The only pattern I could discern is that all of the programs that accepted me were public, and most of the ones that rejected me were private. One of the friends gently smacked me upside the head and said that I was looking for patterns where there were none. He went on to say that "if you could suspend your life and apply again next year with the exact same record, you would get different results." Edit: punctuation. I was told the same by professor friends. Because "fit" is so important...but also so hard to define and probably different for every person evaluating you, its a black box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonsoforth Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I have a couple of friends who are faculty members on adcoms this year, both in fields unrelated to political science. Both have been kind enough to listen to me mindf^k (sorry, there's no polite synonym) why I've gotten into certain programs that seemed beyond my reach, and flatly rejected from programs that seemed like great fits with better odds. The only pattern I could discern is that all of the programs that accepted me were public, and most of the ones that rejected me were private. One of the friends gently smacked me upside the head and said that I was looking for patterns where there were none. He went on to say that "if you could suspend your life and apply again next year with the exact same record, you would get different results." Edit: punctuation. this actually happened to a friend of mine a few years back. he applied to 7-8 programs the first year, got rejections from all of them. the next year, he submitted basically the same application to the same schools plus a couple others (with only very minor revisions to the SoP, not for content, but prose, grammer, etc), got accepted across the board. it sounds like an urban legend, but did happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuldReekie Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) After all the work people put into this process it can probably be a little maddening to infer that it's down to luck. I'm reminded of the (quant happy) article on graduate admissions that someone posted where the author mentioned that you could almost throw the top 50 applicant's files down the stairs and just randomly admit half of them. It's undeniable that there's an element of chance, but that doesn't mean you can't push the odds a tad more in your favour or that by getting in you haven't achieved something great Edited February 21, 2014 by RLemkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinkerbell Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 alright folks, looks like this cycle is over for me! I got one school to visit and I guess I'll decide after that! It's been real. Some great e-friends here! Congrats!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonestarflag Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 After all the work people put into this process it can probably be a little maddening to infer that it'sdown to luck. I'm reminded of the (quant happy) article on graduate admissions that someone posted where the author mentioned that you could almost throw the top 50 applicant's files down the stairs and just randomly admit half of them. It's undeniable that there's an element of chance, but that doesn't mean you can't push the odds a tad more in your favour or that by getting in you haven't achieved something great I actually know of profs grading freshman English papers this way. Whichever flew the furthest was an A on the curve. All the more reason to make your term papers aerodynamic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeudepaume Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 After all the work people put into this process it can probably be a little maddening to infer that it's down to luck. I'm reminded of the (quant happy) article on graduate admissions that someone posted where the author mentioned that you could almost throw the top 50 applicant's files down the stairs and just randomly admit half of them. It's undeniable that there's an element of chance, but that doesn't mean you can't push the odds a tad more in your favour or that by getting in you haven't achieved something great upvote (my way of upvoting in the absence of upvotes). My way of looking at it is similar: at a certain level it becomes somewhat a matter of chance. It doesn't deny the fact though that you have to get to this level first. And often it is a pretty darn high level. cane14 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjalpha Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I refer the thread to Gary King, founding father of my people: http://gking.harvard.edu/files/gking/files/psgrad.pdf. tinkerbell and Targy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeudepaume Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) I guess I am just frustrated when people on the board post a rejection with something like "haha got into a better school anyway." My thoughts on this are: ok, good for you, you've made it. Now what is the point of your comment? Are you arrogant enough to think that if you got into "a better school" you also automatically should be accepted everywhere? Are you frustrated with this rejection—why would you be if you already got good options? So why being bitter/condescending? P.S. unless the comment is a joke. Jokes. I get those. Edit: grammar Edited February 21, 2014 by jeudepaume smallworld, washington1985, IRTheoryNerd and 7 others 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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