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In at UPenn. I'm at a loss for words. I'm hoping everyone else who has been shut out so far receives some good news soon (hopefully a few more today who also get into Penn).

That was me.   I've applied for 4 rounds.   Finally.

claim LSU acceptance.

They said, no assistanship is available for me, but they nominated me to Graduate School

Tuition Award. It covers all the tuition fees, but I do not know whether it provides monthy stipend or not. How do you think?

 

Unfortunately I don't believe it does - http://gradlsu.gs.lsu.edu/Financial%20Assistance/Awards/item11960.html -  but if you have any doubts you should call/email them and ask about how likely it is that any assistantships will become available/other options.

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I think this should be memorized by every prospective student.

 

 

 

Thanks for the link! I went ahead and checked their data from ICPSR. I am sure it will be of interest to many people, since the graphs only contain so much information. Here is the link http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/icpsrweb/ICPSR/studies/34697 

 

Thanks a bunch! When looking at the data, note the time frame: 1950s to today, which means newer programs will be "under-performing"! I also don't know what his measure of faculty size is, since there can be assumed to be quite a lot of fluctuation. There also does not seem to be any measure for cohort size, which means schools with smaller student/faculty ratios will be underperforming in this index, if I understand it correctly.

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Unfortunately I don't believe it does - http://gradlsu.gs.lsu.edu/Financial%20Assistance/Awards/item11960.html -  but if you have any doubts you should call/email them and ask about how likely it is that any assistantships will become available/other options.

thank you...

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Thanks a bunch! When looking at the data, note the time frame: 1950s to today, which means newer programs will be "under-performing"! I also don't know what his measure of faculty size is, since there can be assumed to be quite a lot of fluctuation. There also does not seem to be any measure for cohort size, which means schools with smaller student/faculty ratios will be underperforming in this index, if I understand it correctly.

 

To respond to the first point, that's why there are two measures of efficiency, total placement and current. I presume the latter has to do with recent placements. This is why he says that FSU has a much better current efficiency than most programs and is higher on his ranking than US news' ranking.

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This is highly unethical.

No it isn't.  Graduate School is an apprenticeship.  This is a business as well as an educational agreement and the students are entering with far less knowledge and power.  Again, I reiterate that students should apply for Ph.D. programs because they will be valued more by the professors, the program, and the university. Why in the world would you put yourself at a disadvantage vis-a-vis your peers?

 

More importantly, I don't think you have any understanding of ethics and norms in post-graduate studies.  If you haven't done it, you're talking out of ignorance.

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Applying to, accepting, and attending a funded Ph.D. program with the intention of never completing the degree and to leave after you earn an MA is deceitful and unethical. Taking that spot from someone who actually wants it is no good for anyone. Others may disagree, but I don't know who they are.

 

 

 

 

 

 

More importantly, I don't think you have any understanding of ethics and norms in post-graduate studies.  If you haven't done it, you're talking out of ignorance.

 

 

One, you don't know me. Two, please be professional. Thanks.

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No it isn't.  Graduate School is an apprenticeship.  This is a business as well as an educational agreement and the students are entering with far less knowledge and power.  Again, I reiterate that students should apply for Ph.D. programs because they will be valued more by the professors, the program, and the university. Why in the world would you put yourself at a disadvantage vis-a-vis your peers?

 

More importantly, I don't think you have any understanding of ethics and norms in post-graduate studies.  If you haven't done it, you're talking out of ignorance.

Have to side with Cooperstreet here. (Btw, I already have a graduate degree, so I guess I'm qualified to weigh in?) It is certainly unethical to mislead a department into funding you by making them think you intend to complete their program. "Why in the world would you put yourself at a disadvantage vis-a-vis your peers?" There are plenty of unethical things you can do in life to get ahead. The fact that they help you get ahead doesn't suddenly make them ethical. At the end of the day, intentionally misleading someone is unethical, period. Even more so if you're misleading them to make them give you money AND taking away that opportunity from someone who honestly wants to complete the program. 

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Placement

 

When looking at graduate programs, I strongly suggest applying for the PhD, even if you have no desire to move past the MA.  It will increase your chances of funding and the investment that your program will put into you.  You can always change your mind and get the PhD, which you are already set for.  Going into an MA program only, will almost always come without funding and will alter the value you bring to the department.  

 

I strongly suggest leaving for a better program following your MA if you were not directly admitted to your PhD program.  The worst thing a better program can do is say "No" and you can continue as normal.

 

My research on placement can be found in the following articles:

1)  http://gppreview.com/2012/12/03/superpowers-the-american-academic-elite/

2)  http://gppreview.com/2013/08/21/pushing-up-ivies-institutional-prestige-and-the-academic-caste-system/

3)  http://gppreview.com/2013/09/15/placement-efficiency-an-alternative-ranking-metric-for-graduate-schools/

 

Comprehensive paper)  http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2303567

 

Power Point Presentation)  https://www.academia.edu/4266759/Honor_Prestige_and_the_Academy_A_Portrait_of_Political_Science_Tenured_and_Tenure-track_Faculty_in_Ph.D.-granting_Institutions_2012-2013_

 

The first three are quick reads, the fourth is a comprehensive paper.  The final link is a power-point presentation that I gave at APSA.  The most important point, however, is that this method shows the competitiveness of these programs.  Yes, it only looks at placement in R1 programs, but that's by design.  I strongly caution you to pay attention to anecdotes and numbers (statistics without citations) from Profs or programs.  If they don't have hard data, it's for a reason - the data doesn't reflect positively on them.

 

Many people will tell you a "truth" they want you to believe.  I think that you should look at the numbers, read up on it, and decide for yourself.  The absolute worst way to enter graduate school is unable to think critically.

 

Good luck to you all.

Hi sir,

 

Thank you for the paper. Does it control for program size when assessing a program's ability to land people in TT jobs? Or is your DV the number of TT jobs per year over the number of PhDs graduated per year

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Congrats Nords and MiroslavBass!

 

Thanks, Cazorla! (How about that win against Spurs last weekend =D )

Also, congrats to MiroslavBass!! Long wait for you, but it worked out in the end, yeah? =)

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No it isn't.  Graduate School is an apprenticeship.  This is a business as well as an educational agreement and the students are entering with far less knowledge and power.  Again, I reiterate that students should apply for Ph.D. programs because they will be valued more by the professors, the program, and the university. Why in the world would you put yourself at a disadvantage vis-a-vis your peers?

 

More importantly, I don't think you have any understanding of ethics and norms in post-graduate studies.  If you haven't done it, you're talking out of ignorance.

I think quitting a PhD program and applying to a new better one is very risky because professors will be extremely angry and thus they refuse to write recommendation letters.

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I think quitting a PhD program and applying to a new better one is very risky because professors will be extremely angry and thus they refuse to write recommendation letters.

 

In general, professors don't care about you, and certainly not in the first few years. They don't care enough to be "extremely angry." If you are important enough to them (as a co-author, for example) they will understand a well-reasoned argument for leaving. Admissions committees at higher-ranked schools see this regularly, and know how to evaluate applicants in this situation (according to their own criteria).

 

But it is much easier just to start at the highest/best place you can. Even putting it off for a year if you only get into low-ranked/poor placement programs.

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