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I am thinking about schools I want to apply to next year and Williams was on my list. I was wondering what made you say that it's traditionalist? I guess it might have that reputation, but I didn't really pick up on anything from the program's description of professor profiles (I guess aside from the strict language requirements and that they want your classes distributed, but that didn't seem unusual to me.) I'd just love to know what I might be getting myself in to with an application. Could you maybe point me to anything? Also, what do you mean that Williams is "formalist." I know what it means, but I wasn't sure what that means in terms of the program? And also where did you find this out?

 

Sorry for so many questions! All of your (and all of you Grad-Cafe-ers') posts so far have been very helpful to me! I hope I can join some of you in your awesome schools soon!

I wouldn't characterize Williams as "traditionalist" whatever that might mean these days.  Certainly the work of people like Darby English, Holly Edwards, Marc Gottlieb, or Ondine Chavoya wouldn't be considered as such.  Like a lot of programs I believe they have some older faculty members who might work within methods that foreground biography, iconography, artistic influence, or formalism but it doesn't seem that there is one "Williams approach" to art history.  

 

 

 

He felt that the biggest issues I'd have wrt Williams would be: I was not coming from a good school, and he felt that Williams was still firmly entrenched in some elitism, more or less. Obviously I do not attend Williams or know about it personally, but I can see how it would be considered traditionalist. It is one of the best MAs for Art History, and is known for sending its students to excellent PhD programs. Some of the other programs I applied to were FAR less traditional (Bard Grad Center, for example) and he felt that might appear at odds in my SOP. He wanted me to emphasize traditional art history approaches. I think there are plenty of Williams students who go on to work in museums, but it's a bit more of an academic bent in some ways. 

 

  • goals and interests which they may have thought weren't going to be easily or well supported in the program - it was clear I had interest in working in a museum, I have no idea if this helped or hurt. 

Williams students often go into museum work, they are legendary for it- the "Williams Mafia".  You will find Williams grads in curatorial and directorial positions at major museums throughout the country, sometimes with just their MA but often after going on to a PhD program.  The program is from most accounts object-oriented and students do paid internships at the Clark, MassMOCA, or the Williams museum. Curators at those institutions also teach in the graduate program. In addition all first year students are taken on a trip their first winter break to visit museums/sites in another country, way back it used to be Italy every year (which would have been very traditional) but now I think they go lots of places- Russia, Mexico, Europe. Perhaps these are the reasons why the Columbia professor considered it "traditional" and "formalist"?

 

Looking at their graduates, a lot do seem to come from Ivies or top ranked LACs, but the same could be said for most of first (and even second) tier PhD programs. If that dissuades anyone from applying it would also precede applying to a number of PhD programs.

 

In short, I wouldn't worry about considering Williams for an MA.  I'm not suggesting that it is the only option, or best for everyone, or even the best MA for everyone, or better than PhD programs, no "microagression" intended.  It appears that they take about 10-12 students a year.  I'm not sure about their funding, but since they can put a number of students in internships they may be able to fund all or most of them at least partly.

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Idealism is wonderful and all, but even if you are lucky enough to score a tenure-track job after you complete your degree, you're still looking at shouldering that debt for a long time. Look at http:

I was admitted to the Williams program, and people keep talking to me about its "traditional" approach. I think it has something to do with the program's embeddedness within the discipline of "art history," but I'm not really sure how this differs from other not-so-interdisciplinary programs, like Tufts.

 

That said, I don't think having a "traditional" program means that the students and faculty are all super traditional or formalist scholars. I absolutely would not consider my interests to fall within "traditional" art history, and the program seems very open to letting me bounce my approach against the discipline's boundaries to see what will happen. From what m-ttl says, I suspect she was not admitted because the program really looks for broad, generalist scholars. It allows people to come to the program with areas of interest, but discourages specialization, at least in the beginning.

 

curiositykilledthecat, it sounds like you are pretty set on going to Williams, right?!?! Sorry, I guess curiosity will kill me. ;)

 

Congratulations on the acceptance!!!!!

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Come on UVA!! I'm dying over here! I really do wonder what is taking them so long :/ I don't whether to prepare for the worst or be hopeful anymore!

 

Haha I feel the same. My advisor discouraged UVA over some of the other programs I've been accepted to so I don't know if it would be the best choice for me if I get in but either way I want to know so I can decide. I've gone from hopeful to just annoyed with them. But I need to start finding an apartment and stuff in whichever city I'm going to. Like now. 

 

Is UVA your top choice, if you don't mind me asking?

 

I wonder if anyone has heard anything or if they haven't sent out decisions yet. It just doesn't seem like a lot of people on this forum applied there. 

 

I'm debating calling or emailing them...

Edited by Yce3f7c
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Haha I feel the same. My advisor discouraged UVA over some of the other programs I've been accepted to so I don't know if it would be the best choice for me if I get in but either way I want to know so I can decide. I've gone from hopeful to just annoyed with them. But I need to start finding an apartment and stuff in whichever city I'm going to. Like now. 

 

Is UVA your top choice, if you don't mind me asking?

 

I wonder if anyone has heard anything or if they haven't sent out decisions yet. It just doesn't seem like a lot of people on this forum applied there. 

 

I'm debating calling or emailing them...

 

I can't believe that you guys are still waiting for results from American schools.That's pretty crazy!

 

I think that by now it would be okay to email them to find out when results should be coming out.

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Completely unrelated...but I just wanted to vent about something, in a place where I do not risk being sucked into a ridiculous internet war...

 

So after some time I checked a thread on here I contributed to, only to see it turn into a tirade of ignorance, body-policing and saviour-ism. Being driven by someone who posts constantly on this site (in only non-academic folders...) and seems to be obsessed with constructing a "cool guy who doesn't care about any of ur stupid rules"-internet persona. And I realized this, and others like him, are going onto academic paths where maybe some (because type-a personality, etc.) will become prominent people in their own worlds. And I made myself sad.

 

Anyway. Those are the types of people I have to deal with on a daily basis in my BA, one big (though not main) reason why I'm leaving. Beware the rich/middle-class/otherwise privileged, white/settler (notahipster)hipsters, and don't come to Norden, they are everywhere...

 

I don't have news about anywhere, sorry for the off-topic. Hope you are having a nice day.

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Come on UVA!! I'm dying over here! I really do wonder what is taking them so long :/ I don't whether to prepare for the worst or be hopeful anymore!

Gosh tell me about it. Every time I open my email and don't have a decision from them I want to scream.

I though about emailing them but, considering my deadlines aren't that impending and I'm just impatient, I guess I will wait it out. I su this every week, but I have a feeling this week they will tell us!

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I wouldn't characterize Williams as "traditionalist" whatever that might mean these days.  Certainly the work of people like Darby English, Holly Edwards, Marc Gottlieb, or Ondine Chavoya wouldn't be considered as such.  Like a lot of programs I believe they have some older faculty members who might work within methods that foreground biography, iconography, artistic influence, or formalism but it doesn't seem that there is one "Williams approach" to art history.  

 

 

Williams students often go into museum work, they are legendary for it- the "Williams Mafia".  You will find Williams grads in curatorial and directorial positions at major museums throughout the country, sometimes with just their MA but often after going on to a PhD program.  The program is from most accounts object-oriented and students do paid internships at the Clark, MassMOCA, or the Williams museum. Curators at those institutions also teach in the graduate program. In addition all first year students are taken on a trip their first winter break to visit museums/sites in another country, way back it used to be Italy every year (which would have been very traditional) but now I think they go lots of places- Russia, Mexico, Europe. Perhaps these are the reasons why the Columbia professor considered it "traditional" and "formalist"?

 

Looking at their graduates, a lot do seem to come from Ivies or top ranked LACs, but the same could be said for most of first (and even second) tier PhD programs. If that dissuades anyone from applying it would also precede applying to a number of PhD programs.

 

In short, I wouldn't worry about considering Williams for an MA.  I'm not suggesting that it is the only option, or best for everyone, or even the best MA for everyone, or better than PhD programs, no "microagression" intended.  It appears that they take about 10-12 students a year.  I'm not sure about their funding, but since they can put a number of students in internships they may be able to fund all or most of them at least partly.

 

I'm not really sure why you downvoted me when I made it clear I was quoting a professor who I didn't agree with? 

 

I'm just at a loss. I specifically said I didn't necessarily agree and could have easily been rejected for other (very valid) reasons, and that the views were not my own. I have nothing against Williams - I'm not bitter or upset, and I don't think less of the program. I was only explaining what a Professor said to me - that a place like Williams would ideologically be very very different from Bard Graduate Center (which is not strictly an art history program to begin with). 

 

He told me they were interested in mostly producing academics, and I disagreed with that because well, obviously they have the Clark. I just don't see how relaying a conversation is worthy of disdain? 

 

 

Completely unrelated...but I just wanted to vent about something, in a place where I do not risk being sucked into a ridiculous internet war...

 

So after some time I checked a thread on here I contributed to, only to see it turn into a tirade of ignorance, body-policing and saviour-ism. Being driven by someone who posts constantly on this site (in only non-academic folders...) and seems to be obsessed with constructing a "cool guy who doesn't care about any of ur stupid rules"-internet persona. And I realized this, and others like him, are going onto academic paths where maybe some (because type-a personality, etc.) will become prominent people in their own worlds. And I made myself sad.

 

Anyway. Those are the types of people I have to deal with on a daily basis in my BA, one big (though not main) reason why I'm leaving. Beware the rich/middle-class/otherwise privileged, white/settler (notahipster)hipsters, and don't come to Norden, they are everywhere...

 

I don't have news about anywhere, sorry for the off-topic. Hope you are having a nice day.

 
I think I know what thread you're talking about and to be honest, I maintain those people are being ignorant jerks about body-policing. 
 
Anyways: Congrats to curiositykilledthecat! 
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The results are on the website! UVA is a no for me but I'm so glad to finally know! And I'm so glad this is finally over!!! I'm thrilled to finally be able to accept UPenn's offer! Best of luck to everyone waiting for UVa!

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Haha I feel the same. My advisor discouraged UVA over some of the other programs I've been accepted to so I don't know if it would be the best choice for me if I get in but either way I want to know so I can decide. I've gone from hopeful to just annoyed with them. But I need to start finding an apartment and stuff in whichever city I'm going to. Like now.

Is UVA your top choice, if you don't mind me asking?

I wonder if anyone has heard anything or if they haven't sent out decisions yet. It just doesn't seem like a lot of people on this forum applied there.

I'm debating calling or emailing them...

Doesn't matter anymore :(

I'm currently first on the waitlist at what has been my top choice this whole process so I'm hoping that's a go. Otherwise I'm just waiting on Rutgers which I'm assume isn't good news either. I'm about graduate from an art history ma program. Tough world out there!

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May I ask if you guys who just checked UVA were sent an email notifying you to check the website? and congrats on your awesome prospects to both of you!! 

 

Honestly, part of me is somewhat praying I am rejected from UVA just so that my decision is easier.  

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Doesn't matter anymore :(

I'm currently first on the waitlist at what has been my top choice this whole process so I'm hoping that's a go. Otherwise I'm just waiting on Rutgers which I'm assume isn't good news either. I'm about graduate from an art history ma program. Tough world out there!

You never know someone may decline. Do you have any other options than Rutgers? I'm sure something will work out

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May I ask if you guys who just checked UVA were sent an email notifying you to check the website? and congrats on your awesome prospects to both of you!! 

 

Honestly, part of me is somewhat praying I am rejected from UVA just so that my decision is easier.

Checked the website.

I'm relieved too! That was the last school I was waiting on I'm so glad this is over lol

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Has anyone written to Rutgers to ask when they are going to send out final notifications?  Has anyone here been accepted to Rutgers' PhD program and are accepting or turning down the offer?  Just curious if anyone knows anything about Rutgers' process, other than that they tend to stagger their notifications.

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Mine hasnt either, nor have I received an email telling me to check the website. UVA is my top choice, I interviewed back in Feb. and this wait is killing me.

Ok that is good to hear. Yeah the wait is very stressful at this point. Hopefully they let us know this week one way or the other; I need this over. Good luck!

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