youdontknowme

I *hated* playing those games though.

Yes, saying my degree was in 'liberal arts' was exactly what I did Sometimes I tried, "I studied a range of things.... I found business ethics particularly useful...." This seemed to work okay when pressured in interviews.

And, just to clarify, when I say: 1) Phil PhD admittance is easeir that job admittance with only a phil BA, I mean excluding retail and construction jobs (so no mall/restaurant jobs and no roofing jobs). I've found the phil PhD acceptance rate to be about 2-4% and the phil BA to "real" job acceptance rate to be about 0.5-1%. And, frankly, I'm one of the better at self-marketing as evidenced by once I GOT my foot in the door I scored a significant promotion every 9 months on average and over doubled my salary in 4.5 years. Instead, the 0.5-1% figure is so low because of the number of organizations I've interacted with actually have an unspoken policy against hiring philospohy majors (unless they have another BA or have since procured an MBA). 2) JD on full scholarship: If you come from a name-recognized undergrad, and have a MA in phil (from a name-recognized place too) both with stellar GPAs and have almost perfect LSAT scores, and then you apply to only the worst JD schools (on purpose) who yet offer full rides to their most competitive students (some do), you're odds are decent. Then, if you target public prosecutor jobs, your odds are decent since such jobs are very uncompetitive due to long hours and very low pay for those with JDs (compared to other attorney work). But, that is okay since your JD was debt-free. Another option is finding some kind of crap-job at one of the ucompetitive law schools that yet includes tuition remission and get the JD debt-free that way. Again, this only works if you are aiming for the uncompetitive law jobs, such as public prosecutor ($40-65k but often hire folks with no experience so long as the bar is passed since it is so hard to retain competitive JD's at such uncompetitive jobs). PS, you probably already figured this, but in case it is helpful, I am a person who took a lengthy break between undergrad and grad--and my experience over those years combined with the experiences of others is what I'm using for data here.

I sympathize with most of the above, but maybe can add some experience. I graduated with a BA in philosophy (from a top 10 Leiter school), and I was about 4 courses courses short of a second BA in business communication. I could NOT GET HIRED ANYWHERE. I finally got a job collecting debt for a bank that lends for car purchases. Regrettably, this was miserable, and I was required to lie to the customers about their loan terms. That said, my employer did not call it lying, and I only figured out it was lying when I did my own reading of the fine print of the loan contracts. This employer is a subsidiary of one of the major American auto manufacturers. With that experience under my belt, I was able to get hired doing data entry for $11/hr. I got benefits at this job. What LeftinLimbo said is true. Getting my foot in the door was near impossible. But, once it was in the door, it was easy to stomp all over my competition. I was promoted significantly at this job and ended in IT making about $56k. That said, it was all politics and posturing. Sure, I worked hard and did a good job, but so did everyone else who I was chosen over. The ability to succeed was the ability to play politics. And, in each promotion interview, I had to obscure my philosophy undergraduate! I did things on my resume like mention that I had an undergraduate BA from xyz school (while intentionally not including the major.) I even had bosses (who had interviewed and hired me) make remarks like, "Can you believe what it would be like to have a philosophy major here???" as jokes when I helped in the hiring process and philosophy majors applied. I agree that the philospohy major adds the analytic and conceptual skills that have been mentioned above--and attention to detail. The unfortunate thing is that this doesn't matter. What matters is the perception of you your potential employer has. And, as far as that perception is, the philosophy major is a deal-breaker. I applied to so many jobs that disqualified me on account of having a philosophy major. Many, many jobs that only considered people who had either a BA in business or an MBA. For example, one employer nominated me for a promotion (I did good work, as most philosphy majors will), but when she realized my undergraduate was in philosophy---**even though I had so many business electives (accounting, economics, etc...)***---she withdrew my nomination and said only people with degrees in business would be considered. So, getting your foot in the door will be nearly impossible--I'd say harder than getting into a philosophy PhD program (speaking as someone who has tried to do both of these). But, once your foot is in, you will likely do well if you are able to hide/make your employer forget you have a degree in philosophy. Or, you could do an easy-peasy online MBA on the side (it will be super easy) and add that to your resume. The upshot with that plan is most $40-60k range business jobs do not really care where your MBA is from, so the online places will work just fine. Of course, if you opt for some kind of retail work, the phil degree will be just fine (I've had a number of those jobs too). In my experience, retail work generally doesn't care what your degree is actually in, so long as you work hard and have excellent customer service skills. The downside I've found with these jobs is the lack of benefits and long-term prospects (I was a supervisor at a sbux, but even then I couldn't get decent health insurance. I also worked at several restaurants and big-box stores). I'm not trying to be downer, but I want those who might be fresh out of their BAs to have a realistic idea of what to expect. (One last point that is quasi-encouraging: for nearly every business job I had where my boss knew my BA was in phi, they offered to pay my way for me to get an MBA. So, if you're able to get your foot in the door and excel, you may not have to pay for your MBA.) Given all that stuff, I'd **personally** be pretty happy with any plan B that provided $30k or above and where success was not 80% based off your ability to play politics. Seems that teaching high school might work for this, and law might work for this--but only if one is able to score a full scholarship to law school, and then aim for public prosecutor or similar and avoid workign for a midzide or big firm. Teaching at a community college would be ideal, but it seems that there are **very** few jobs that are not adjunct (which if you're teaching 5 classes per semester seems to add up to only about $18-22k a year).

Ugh. Worked in the outside world for 30hrs a week in undergrad and for several years before going back to school for my grad education, and I hated every moment of it. This is a sort of 'what could I do without losing my will for life' kind of choice. It reminds of a quote: "Death is not the greatest loss in life. The greatest loss is what dies inside us while we live." This was my experience in the real world. So, I've returned to academics because I've already tried the real world and it was--for me--not sustainable. (For me, this was working at a lying bank and a corrupt non-profit). So, law, teaching high school, etc... are all ways to try to find a non soul-killing life. In that spirit, it really doesn't matter very much to me if I want to be a ________ (fill in the blank here: lawyer, teacher, etc...) or not, because it is about whether or not I can *survive* as a _________. It is a hunt to find whatever is livable. I should say too, this is all just my personal experience. This is all just me. I'm not trying to say the real world is uniquivocally horrible and ubiquitiously corrupt. It just was for the years I tried it. The only livable jobs I found were the non-traditional ones, but most of those, unfortunately, do not supply a living wage (in terms of $20k a year and above, whether built up from hourly work or a salary).

Why no law school? I'm in a similar situation as lesage13 above, and I'm considering law school. I've hunted for CC jobs, but can't find anything other thatn $500-600 per credit hour compensation, which is not a living wage and less than most elementary/middle/high school teachers make. So, I'm considering law school or trying to get a teaching certification (preferrably high school). Prior to getting my MA in phil I worked professionally in IT and Finance at a major non profit for 5ish years, so I do have some 'real-world' experience working I'm basing these plans on. So, I'm in the same boat. But, I'm intrigued by the prior post, what makes law school worse than accounting or IT or teaching high school or etc....?

Its driving me crazy. I can only assume it means reject, BUT, only 2 people have posted acceptances, so I have no idea.

Has anyone heard anything from Baylor? I was one of the people who visited, but I never heard anything from them afterwards (reject, waitlist, or acceptance). Anyone other than the 2 who posted been accepted (since they usually accept 5 or 6 total)? Can't tell if this is just a delay or an implied waitlist/reject......