[American SIS vs. Denver Korbel]

Hi!

I ended up choosing American. I visited both schools during their prospective grad students events (and they were back to back. Lots of traveling over those four or five days!). I was impressed with both schools and after Discover Korbel, had pretty much settled on Denver. However, after American's day, I knew that program was the place for me. Like you said, the internship opportunities seem fantastic. Also, I was really impressed with American's U.S. Foreign Policy (my program) faculty. I mean REALLY impressed. I met every faculty member that day (except for one who was teaching or at a conference at the time? I don't remember), and they seemed to really care about their students. In fact, one professor told me that the SIS director requires all SIS faculty to have AT LEAST six hours of office hours a week. I liked the idea of knowing I could meet with faculty regularly if I needed to.

As for Denver's faculty, I didn't meet anyone from the security program except the degree director, and she had to leave the event early. I understand that she's busy (she is the director after all) but I wish the Denver security faculty had made an appearance. I would've liked to have met them. The students at Denver seemed great. Really passionate about their fields. I didn't really get a chance to meet many current American students.

Anyway, like I said, I've decided on American for 1) the stellar faculty members I met, and 2) the career opportunities. Also, I've interned in D.C. before and I just really love that city! Good luck with your decision!

Welcome to SIS! I'm glad you had such a great experience at Grad Day I'm a current (graduating) student - if you have any questions about the school, don't hesitate to ask!

[American SIS- Worth going into big debt?]

Ashlee - no, the language exam isn't hard at all (it's just reading proficiency), but you may have to find someone to test you in Indonesian since they don't offer it as a standard language exam through the school. It's not a complex process, though - people have gotten certified with more obscure languages

Cnreves - no, in your case I don't really think it'd be worth it, unless you're absolutely dying to come and/or you're still entirely unsure. They won't tell you much you won't hear at orientation. I think it's much more useful for people who are still comparing schools. As for registration, you'll be able to register online in May anyway, so I also don't think that'll be a big deal.

The most convenient area is in NW DC, somewhere on the red metro line - Cleveland Park, Van Ness, Tenleytown, Friendship Heights, Bethesda and further up. The further up you go, the cheaper it becomes. Lots of people live in Columbia Heights (it's also cheaper) and Adams Morgan (a little pricier, but good nightlife - however, not always the safest). I'd stay away from the NE area of town and far, far away from Anacostia. Northern Virginia is nice, but it's really far away.

[American SIS- Worth going into big debt?]

I'm a current SIS student who's procrastinating on her thesis Feel free to ask anything you'd like! I'll try to help with what I can.

I'm not in the ID program, but I have many friends who are, and they all LOVE it. The program takes very good care of its students and everything I've heard about ID has been overwhelmingly positive (bordering on obsessively positive, in fact ). However, in regards to work it's a lot trickier for international students - almost all of the part-time job opportunities on campus are federal work-study jobs international students are ineligible for, and your visa conditions may preclude you from legally obtaining a job off-campus during your studies (don't take my word for it, though - see if you can contact the international student office at AU, they appear very helpful). There's been some discussion of higher H1B caps sometime in the future, and I know that international AU grads have gotten H1Bs to stay here, but it seems easier said than done (though obviously the big places like the World Bank and the IMF would have greater flexibility to hire a foreigner, and I know that some of the "temporary" 2-year contracts with the World Bank often turn into two years plus two years plus two years plus... so people do end up staying, and with attractive salaries at that). This isn't an AU problem, though, it's a US immigration problem.

Overall the school has a very solid reputation in DC, a solid track record of job placement and excellent connections. For US-based folks it may be worthwhile to note that SIS churns out a lot of PMFs, FSOs and government employees annually. I work full-time at a cool nonprofit in downtown DC, and I got the job thanks in large part to my amazing faculty advisor who helped me get the internship that led to the job in the first place.

P.S. Based on everything I've heard in regards to immigration procedures it appears the easiest way to stay here is to get a PhD - there's also some talk of Obama's immigration reform eventually granting permanent residence to people who obtain graduate degrees in the US, though that may take some time to get off the ground. Not sure if that's something you've considered, Ashlee, but it's just a thought. Plus it comes with tuition remission and a stipend.

[SIS with funding or Elliot School without?]

Think about which program is the best fit for you. If you're not enthusiastic about the program, you won't be enthusiastic about the work, or even job prospects. Whereas, if you go to a school with a program that you really believe in, you won't be angry/upset/frustrated when paying off those loans each month.

Agreed. Ultimately, this is a decision only you can make, but FWIW, my friends in the EPGA program love it and are doing really interesting research.

On another note, DeepShadeofBlue, welcome to SIS!

[George Washington Elliot]

Well, let me start off by saying I know exactly how you feel - it really is a catch-22 in the sense that it's tough to get into grad school without work experience and it's tough to get work experience without a Master's. I see nothing wrong with going to GW, especially if you want to start off your career in DC - it's a great school with a solid reputation and the price tag isn't as scary. All pros if you ask me. Unless you absolutely have your heart set on GT/SAIS/SIPA, go to GW.

P.S. The availability of nighttime classes could actually be a great thing for you, especially if you happen to get a job offer before you graduate. You'll also have more time to do more internships.

[MPP vs IR]

Hmmmmmm. Well, what I was trying to do was to draw a distinction between the two disciplines for some clarification. As for actually programs...yes, most terminal MA IR programs and MA IDs are more of a hybrid of not only policy and political science, but econ and a whole host of other disciplines as well. These days, many schools have MA IRs that are designed very much like a professional program, rather than actual Master's of Arts--in the traditional sense.

True, but the "discipline" of IR is also kind of tough to define because there are just so many different things going on. Your distinction is probably entirely applicable when one considers PhD programs, but MAs are definitely a different beast. That said, I do think the distinction between MAIRs and MPPs with an IR concentration is kind of arbitrary and perhaps sometimes defined by university politics above all else.

[MPP vs IR]

I'm not sure I agree with the distinction tammy-san makes. I'm finishing up an MAIR at American right now and I think I've written a grand total of three research papers (with only one on state behavior) - the rest have been policy memos/briefs/white papers/briefing books, etc, with papers in quantitative methods, advanced analytical methods and so forth. I can't speak for all programs, obviously, but most MAIRs are very policy-oriented with a solid practical component, especially those in DC, though academic-minded students have the option of choosing courses that would prepare them for a PhD as opposed to, say, a policy analyst job. MAIRs (or, more specifically, MAIDs) can have a heavy quantitative component, too, especially if you're interested in development economics and things of that sort. And while theory is unavoidable, my program only requires one theory class, and I've heard many DC schools are the same way.

And yes, IR students tend to be more on the academic track, while policy students tend to be on the "job" track.

I'd disagree with this as well. Very few of my classmates are on the academic track - I can't think of a single one, actually (and we're a big school), though I'm sure they exist.

[Georgetown or American MPP]

I'm not in the MPP program at AU, but I have friends who are, and they really seem to enjoy it, for what it's worth. You can also take classes (not sure how many) at SIS as an MPP student, which a lot of people do, apparently, particularly within the US foreign policy concentration. I think there are quite a few adjuncts in the program (the pros and cons of this are debatable, but I've found adjuncts in my program to be awesome), too.

[Info on KSG Students and Programs]

The student satisfaction survey was really interesting, thanks for sharing! I'm now curious to know just how bad this PAL exemption test really was!

[The Josef Korbel School of International Studies at the University of Denver]

Again, I urge all admitted students to attend the Discover Korbel event in April where you'll be given a chance to speak with students whose names to which you'll be privy, face-to-face, without staff or administration present. Feel free to ask any of the questions "Aunuwyn" has posed here - the students on the panel, which may include myself, are given complete freedom to answer all questions as honestly and clearly as possible.

As a student who's participated in similar panels, albeit not at Korbel, I'd like to mention that 1) the students who attend these things are a self-selecting bunch; most of those who haven't enjoyed their experience at School X on the whole are less likely to want to spend hours talking to prospective students in the middle of feverish final-writing; 2) especially in face-to-face encounters, few are willing to voice actual criticism of any aspect of the program because they think, whether rightly or wrongly, that it makes them look bad, that it makes it seem as though they messed up by choosing the school that wasn't best suited for them, or that they should've gotten more out of the experience/for the price. I'm genuinely enjoying my program (again, not at Korbel), I really like my classes, my professors have generally been great, but it never occurred to me to volunteer criticism leveled at my program by my peers, or a vivid description of Process X I found difficult to deal with, or whatever at these events. I was mostly all sunshine and rainbows even without administrators present, though this was generally because I really did like my program. My friends who weren't as thrilled with theirs didn't attend these events, which is why it's useful to get a variety of viewpoints from "anonymous" people online.

[Language Competency and Competitiveness]

Thanks, Leica. That is one of the main reasons that I am applying to grad schools straight out of undergrad. Students in the cohorts ahead of me are all having EXTREME difficulty in finding jobs after graduation. While I realize that my program does not necessarily have name recognition, APSIA representatives that have visited our program has commented that it is an upstanding program that can compete academically with some of the upper tier schools. Despite this, not many students have been able to find jobs. One has a job with the Department of Veterans Affairs because his dad was previously employed by them. Another student worked for the National Democratic Institute doing research on Latin America for less than $10 an hour, but then was unable to continue past one semester because she was unable to pay her bills on such a small salary. My point is that the job market for IR is not looking so great from what I can tell. The jobs that I would have been able to get out of undergrad just a few years ago are not taken by people with Masters degrees (presumably because all of the better jobs are taken).

I'm still looking for jobs (i.e. if anyone has any job leads for me, please feel free to message me), but I think that grad school is a much better option for me right now because of the job market.

Aye aye. That's the reason I went to grad school essentially straight out of undergrad (I took a year off, but I had no work experience before I applied, and while I did temp for a while before starting school, that can hardly be considered "relevant experience"); I'm graduating in May and I already have a full-time job in my field. In response to another comment above, while I did start grad school at 22, I had no trouble making friends/relating to people older than myself. There is something to be said for taking some time off, but I don't think it's absolutely necessary and I don't think taking time off solely for the sake of taking time off is the best idea in the current job market situation. It would be beneficial for people who have no access to loans and thus must rely solely on the generosity of their prospective programs (e.g., international students), or for people who have little to offer prospective employers upon graduation from a Master's program. You don't seem to fit into either category, and you do have a lot going for you, namely the critical language skills and the semester abroad. You sound like a great candidate and I'm sure you won't have trouble finding employment in DC afterwards.

[Language Competency and Competitiveness]

I'm surprised people are assuming it's easy to get an IR job out of undergrad these days... A lot of places won't even look at an applicant who isn't at least already a Master's student, and because the job market is still trying to recover, BAs will be up against MAs for jobs that would realistically consider them. To the OP: with your language skills, your semester abroad and one internship, I think you will be a good candidate for AU, I can't comment on any of your other choices as I have no knowledge of them. Working beforehand is great, but now it's become much more difficult to find something relevant. The comment above regarding the three-letter agencies after graduation was spot on, too, and I'd recommend going for a critical language scholarship as well. Good luck!

[My Chances]

But I'm really worried about how my three year degree will be viewed by American universities...

Anyone gotten into school in the states with a three year undergrad degree?

There were other places I was going to apply to, like maybe Duke and Cornell, but they require a four year undergrad degree. Duke told me flat out that my application would be rejected without a four year undergrad.

I find it very bizarre that Duke would say something like that, particularly since some American students transfer in a year's worth of AP/community college credits when starting college. Placing those kinds of restrictions on overseas students doesn't seem right. But anyway, I know people who've done very well in the admissions process with a three-year British degree, so I don't think that's going to be a problem. Given your experience I'm pretty sure you'd be a very promising candidate for American (and if you're applying for the international development program, you should have a very good chance of funding), but I can't speak to any of the other schools.

[Looking for Criticism on my IR SoP]

I'd cut the first two sentences and the "rather" at the beginning of the third and just lead with how your interests have grown and evolved over time. The first two sentences don't really add anything to your SOP, but the use of negatives may detract from your message.

[Are MAs in IR worthwhile!?!??!]

The other reason I posted this former board topic was because I had just heard from a PhD student of PoliSci that advanced theory-based degrees sometimes provide less of a certain skills set sought after by employers. It was also noted that more specified degrees may have an edge in hiring circles (MBA vs. IR).

Well, I can't speak for all programs out there, but IR degrees in general aren't "theory-based" - you may have one core theory (or theory & history) course and you may have theoretical readings at the beginning of each class, but if you tailor your degree to meet your needs/interests, you shouldn't have any trouble acquiring the specific skills employers want. Besides the core theory course in my program, everything I've taken has had a skills component, and my coursework has covered everything from SPSS to GIS to policy brief writing to briefing book preparation. That's not to say you can't mold your degree to be more theoretical than practical, but that doesn't sound like what you're after.

As for the comparative value of "specified" degrees, there are several things worth noting: 1) an IR degree is going to be pretty specific once you move past the core components; 2) it all depends on the field you want to go into afterwards. An MBA has its value and if you want to go into investment banking or small business development or what have you, that might be the better route to take, but I haven't seen many (okay, any) IR job postings that have specified (or hinted at the fact) that an MBA would somehow be preferable over the standard formulation in these types of announcements: "an advanced degree in international affairs, international development, security studies, public administration or a related field". But again, there's no reason you can't do a joint MA/MBA if that's where your interests lie.

"paying back $80,000 of student loans has been an ongoing challenge"

I can imagine that being a serious challenge, yes. However, there are ways to get around taking out exorbitant sums (or any money at all) - you can get scholarships, you can find a government or private sector position and get them to pay for it, you can find a full-time job on campus and use tuition remission staff benefits, etc. There are ways to get around taking out hefty sums, and you should always think long and hard about whether that $80k degree is worth it for you personally. Last year, there were really long threads here about whether a Harvard degree is worth $120k - some said that it's just like buying a house, an investment in your future, while others shied away from the idea. Ultimately, it all comes down to your comfort level with the amount you'll be taking out, and it'll clearly be a very personal decision.

[MA in IR for average students]

Ive taken the GRE 3 times already. Studied excessively each time and memorized about 900+ words. I just cant get my verbal score over 500 for some reason. My LORs should be pretty solid and my SOP has been edited by multiple professors so I feel that its pretty good. Im really interested in security studies and georgetown's ssp is my ideal school but its quite a reach. I have a lot of experience abroad. I have been to Japan over 7 times, staying for about a month each time. I am pretty fluent in Japanese as well.

UCSD's IR/PS program may be a good fit for you. Check it out and good luck!

[MA in IR for average students]

Pull up your GRE scores (specifically the V), define your interests, write a solid SOP and get good recs - you should be able to get in to a perfectly good school. If you're interested in transnational crime (I'm going by the human trafficking internship), George Mason has a very good transnational crime & corruption center where you could do an MPP with an international focus (they're right in DC, too, which places you well for internships and career opportunities). If you can pull up your GREV, I think American and George Washington would both be perfectly within reach. Just make sure you write a strong SOP and get glowing academic recommendations.

[Are MAs in IR worthwhile!?!??!]

For prospectives, the experience of current and former students can be invaluable, since their statistics, experiences and ideas can help form guidelines or benchmarks for those applying to grad school.

While this is generally true in regards to admission stats ("I got into HKS with this, that and the other thing"), all of our statistics, experiences and ideas can't really answer the "is it worth it"/"why should I do an MAIR instead of a JD/MBA" kinds of questions, because ultimately, as I said, that decision can only be made by the applicant alone. You have to arrive at this decision through a lot of soul-searching, for lack of a better term, and really weighing pros and cons UNLESS you fall into the category of people who've dreamed of nothing else their entire adult lives, in which case you wouldn't be asking the question at all.

As far as post-MA prospects go, well, those can't really be divided into neat little boxes and/or quantified for a number of reasons. Alumni don't always respond to surveys sent out by career counselors. The field of "IR" is HUGE, and so is the salary gap. You could get a job offer in your first semester, or you could graduate and still be looking 6-9-12 months down the line. It's all very individual, a combination of (as was rightly mentioned) what you know, who you know, what kind of skills you possess, but also pure blind luck - ending up in the right place at the right time, essentially. Because of this, we can't really tell anybody if it's "worth it", because none of our anecdata will really serve as an adequate assessment of your future prospects. Even if employment stats were accurate, would knowing that, say, 12.5% of the Columbia Business School Class of 2009 are unemployed make you more or less inclined to pursue an MBA? I might say no way, the job market's terrible, while somebody else may say pfft, it's only 12.5%, and those people probably didn't work hard enough, anyway. That's an example of these sorts of questions being virtually "unanswerable".

[Are MAs in IR worthwhile!?!??!]

Is it the best academic direction to take, is it worth the exorbitant cost of attendance?

This is a question only you can answer for yourself.

I wrote to some people with PhDs and the such, and they told me that advanced degrees in PoliSci-related fields may not BEST unless one is pursuing a PhD.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Professional programs (MAIRs, MPPs, MPAs) differ greatly from PhD programs, and they serve to fulfill entirely different objectives. If your goal is to do research and teach, then do a PhD. If your goal is to work outside of academia, then a professional program would be your best bet.

That foreign service workers often don't need MAs to get to where they are, work experience having counted more, or that they pursued MAs in fields such as Public Health, or MBAs, or JDs, and specialized...

Yes, foreign service officers technically do not need an MA, as far as I know. However, given that it's pretty much understood that a Master's is the new Bachelor's and that you'll have hundreds of people with MAs competing with you for jobs, you'll probably need an advanced degree to set yourself apart, since I gather you can only get so far without an advanced degree (most of the six-figure "Director of..." jobs I've seen explicitly ask for an advanced degree PLUS x years of work experience, not either or).

If public health/business school/law school is your thing, by all means, pursue whichever path you like more. However, I've noticed a fairly substantial number of miserable newly-minted lawyers/b-school graduates with oodles of debt and a sense of complete apathy toward the profession they chose, mainly because they figured they'll "just go to law school" in the absence of a better life plan. That said, I've also met a few fresh lawyers with a sizeable debt load who appear to be very happy because it's exactly what they've always wanted to do. If you can't decide between an MA and an MBA/JD/etc or if both sound equally appealing, there are always dual-degree programs to consider.

What do you expect to get out of MAs in IR?

A job. And that's precisely what I got, so I'm quite happy.

Indeed a top program gets you the right connections and the necessary TOP NOTCH education for the field. But??? Why not get a JD in international law, or specialize in Public Administration or something more specific that international organizations seek out?

Because not everyone wants to go to law school/is interested in international law/is interested in public administration. And if your heart's not in it, you may find yourself sitting in your Contracts class wondering what the hell it is you're doing there.

[Emergency Management]

Riz - it doesn't seem like the MALD curriculum offers the types of classes Molly's looking for, even within the Environment & Resource Policy concentration.

Molly, you might actually want to look into some Public/Global Health programs - quite a few offer a solid management component, too.

[Nonprofit Management Programs with an International Bent]

The School for International Training in Vermont has a graduate institute I've heard really good things about, and there are nonprofit management courses offered, I believe. Based on her interests and preferences, it sounds like it could be a good fit.

[American SIS]

I'm going into my second year at SIS (in the IP program), and I'd be happy to answer any questions

[Top10 IR Schools:Splitting hairs , or is there a difference?]

Thanks for all of the great responses everyone.

In trying to write my Fletcher wait list acceptance letter, I have again stumbled into the question surrounding the value of "prestige" vs. solid professional preparation. I have seen on many occasions two separate lists of schools sorted into "academic" and "professional" categories. The "prestigious" schools (WWS,SAIS,HKS,Fletcher, SFS) all make the "academic" list, and schools such as Elliott,Denver,AU SIS, and Pitt are placed on the "professional". Is there a clear division between "theory and practice" when it comes to these schools? Are the Think Tankers and PhD's going to one set with the FSO'S and USAID workers going to another? Keep the responses coming, we only have a few more days to decide.

To answer your last question: no, I don't think so. I also think that "academic" vs. "professional" list is questionable at best - if anything, I've always thought of programs like Yale and Chicago as having more of an academic bend, whereas I'd squarely place schools like SAIS and SFS into the "professional" category. I don't think this difference is as pronounced as some make it out to be, though.

Based on everything I've seen, experienced and read (including here), I think it should ultimately come down to the school you're most comfortable at - for some people, that's going to be SAIS, for others, it'll be Denver. I'm really happy at AU and I can't imagine myself anywhere else, primarily because I'm given the freedom to mold my own degree and develop my own academic and practical pursuits.

[Top10 IR Schools:Splitting hairs , or is there a difference?]

I think there are some great points made in this thread, but I'd like to add that it's important to understand that the professional field of IR is really diverse and there are lots and lots of factors that go into decisions made by potential employers. You could be hired because of some unique experience you've had, or because you speak a rare language, or because you just seemed to "fit" into the mold of the company really well, or because you happen to mention a unique project you completed in some class, and those are all really subjective things that employers don't actually advertise in vacancy announcements. There are grads from every school struggling to find work, and it's tough to say whether they're struggling because of the school they went to or because of one of those (often intangible) "other factors". I think that a degree from the top 5 of the "top 10" won't necessarily guarantee you your dream job, whereas a degree from the bottom 5 of the "top 10" won't necessarily exclude you from it. There's also the issue of certain places basing their hiring decisions on their past experiences with grads from certain schools - for instance, if some place has had a string of consistently excellent interns or employees from School X. And yes, there will be people who might prefer a WWS grad to a GW grad based on the name alone, just as there will probably be people who might prefer the GW grad because they: a) went there themselves; are friends with their advisor, professor, etc; c) think WWS is "overrated"; d) the GW grad speaks fluent Pashto and so on.

[Employment Prospects for an Elliot School Graduate?]

You're really not giving Elliot enough credit. I can understand how spending so much time on a forum like this one, with all of these "WWS vs. KSG" threads, could make you feel like you're "settling" for "just Elliot", but I don't think people actually recognize how good these schools are. It's a well-regarded school full stop. The part about "the right networking and internships" holds true for any school, and I think it's a bad idea all around to compare the position you're in - which is enviable - to the plight of law school graduates from around the country, because "lower-ranked law schools" does not equal "top 10 IR school in DC". You're not attending Podunk State Vocational College of Underwater Basket-Weaving, and you won't be surrounded by mediocre students (or faculty, for that matter).