ianfaircloud

I'm curious about this, too. I'm not sure whether you saw another post of mine on this site today, but I raised the point that part of what makes the best MA programs the best is their ability to attract people who would have done well with just an additional year to spend on a writing sample. Again, I must emphasize, I think MA programs are extremely valuable, and I'm very glad that I attended one.

Incidentally: I almost went to UMSL. Great place to get an MA. I lived in St. Louis awhile, so it was a serious consideration for me.

Definitely worth saying something. I don't regret my choice, even as it looks like I could be shut out of admissions. Here's a point worth making: Even if (or even though) there's this bias, nothing gives an applicant with my background a better shot than for that applicant to attend a top-ranked MA program.

Your conclusion is something like, "A candidate who comes from a weak undergraduate institution may not be helped much, as far as PhD placement is concerned, by attending even a well-regarded MA program." Or something like that. That conclusion may surprise a lot of people, but it doesn't surprise me too much. I attended a very weak undergraduate institution. In my experience, based on my readings, conversations, personal experience, anecdotal evidence, etc., there's a heavy bias against people who attended weak undergraduate institutions. Even if one's written work is superb, one's numbers are all near-perfect, and everything else is lined up just right, the reputation of the undergraduate department can, by itself, undermine an applicant's shot at PhD admissions (to top-20 programs). Anyway, I really appreciate your post here. I think it's good that you've done the research and can say, with more certainty, that my suspicion could be warranted.

I want to make sure that I've been clear. Getting an MA is often VERY helpful. MA programs are REALLY important. I'm a zealous defender of the MA programs. What I want to say is that sometimes it's maybe less important *where* one earns the MA. (Note to anyone reading this: please read my full post above to get the proper context here.)

Two points raised by these two posts: I completely agree that the placement record is absolutely vital. I will say this. There are two stories, either of which is plausible. The first is this: Good people get into top MA programs. Top MA programs, in virtue of their being top MA programs, help those good people get into good PhD programs. The second is this. MA programs get good people. The top MA programs get better people (very, very roughly here) than the competing MA programs. Then, roughly, these better people do better, not because of the magic worked on them in the MA program, but because they started out as better people. The MA is not only an opportunity to work with great faculty and peers. It's an opportunity to spend 18 months perfecting a writing sample. And that latter piece is maybe what makes the difference for many candidates who, given the proper time, would have been very successful anyway. I'm saying this. I'm saying that I think both stories are to some degree true. I attended a top MA program, and I think the same group of successful students would have been successful at other MA programs. I really hate to say this aloud, because I love my department. I got a great education. My peers were top notch. And if I could do it again, I'd still pick this program -- even though I paid a lot of money for it and could have been at Georgia State with free money. Indeed. Many GREAT people with REALLY GREAT numbers who look AMAZING on paper still fail to be admitted to top programs. I saw this happen to someone in my department last year. This person is top notch. Would have been a really, really great philosopher. Went to a top-five department for undergrad, too.

Yes, the ApplyWeb page. A reliable friend gave me a detailed description. I agree -- it's odd. Thanks, IanHendon! Also, I'm not forgetting that a lot of highly qualified people are in a similar situation. These people would no doubt be great philosophers. Totally rooting for all you people. You're great.

Very nice of you to say this! I'll certainly post any good news.

Isn't that truth?? You're not the first to say this. I sort of agree. There's a great episode of Star Trek:TNG ("The Hunted") in which a prisoner who escaped from an isolated penal colony tells the governing officials, "Destroy us. Do what you have to. But you will not ignore us." Love that line.

Good question. I think some of these are just very slow about sending rejections. I'm assuming that, if you haven't heard from UCSD, you're out. But Madison is still a possibility. They send wait-lists sometimes much later than initial acceptances.

No. And I will admit here, I'm very, very, very disappointed. This was basically my top choice, and I also thought I had the best chance of being admitted there. My letter writers had very close connections. It was the best fit, etc. So I now have 11 presumed rejections. Very depressing!!

Detailed information about Brown: Generic email telling you to check your status. This will go for any wait-list or acceptance. Website, on page that says, "Activity for [insert name]", above the list of received things, there will be a link to view decision letter. If there's no link, then you're probably not getting in.

Any detailed information about Brown would be helpful...

Is that a picture of you? If so, that makes the post all the funnier.

I completely agree. I think that, sadly, some people assume that what they have to say is uninteresting to us. If I'm admitted anywhere, I'll sure as hell say something in the comments.

Thanks!

Pass the time by listening to the hearts on Google: https://www.google.com/ The 'Mr Right' is good.

Yeah, this city never sleeps...

The Yale rejection via email looks suspicious. See my thread on this, please.

I'm using this thread only to confirm notifications: Can anyone confirm receipt of a rejection from Yale? Northwestern? Can anyone confirm receipt of a wait-list notification from Wisconsin Madison? Indiana Bloomington (Philosophy PhD only)?

Yale post. I'm not believing it quite yet.

I think the LEAST we'll see tomorrow is two schools. I think we could see up to seven in one weekend. I've gotta stand by my predictions. Carnegie-Mellon, Penn, Pitt, Stanford, Georgetown, Brown, Illinois-UC -- none of these would surprise me tomorrow. Did the weather affect anything? Ehhh MAYBE. Pennsylvania got hit pretty hard today. U Penn was closed. I don't know when the admissions committee met. Perhaps the meeting was supposed to be today and was cancelled on account of weather. Perhaps the meeting is tomorrow morning. Even now it's uncertain whether U Penn will open tomorrow. Georgetown also was hit pretty hard today. Same situation as U Penn. So after some thought, I'd say that Carnegie-Mellon and Pitt are the two most likely schools to release decisions tomorrow.

Good choice. Congrats. It's been a slow week. I still think we're going to see at least two tomorrow. Note that it turns out -- as I suspected -- that no top-five released on February 13. I don't remember the origin of that rumor. However, I stand by my prediction -- four to five top-50 notifications between Wednesday and Saturday. So that would mean two or more tomorrow through Saturday.

If you didn't get an offer from Chicago, it's very unlikely you will be admitted. University of Chicago typically sends a round of initial acceptances-- and that's it. No wait-list. No later acceptances. Etc.

I'd feel slightly optimistic, if I were you. See my above post.