annie a
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Posts posted by annie a
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Hi,
I think it is truly an excellent idea to also obtain an MIA from SIPA, especially if you do not have any existing international advocacy work. Combining that with an MSW will give you quite a strong foundation for the type of work you describe.
In terms of debt, I liken it to priorities...everybody has their own preferences when it comes to an investment. Sure you could do your masters elsewhere for for much less $, but SIPA does have some pretty interesting professors (think Jeffrey Sachs)
Good luck on your decision!
After much intense deliberation, some help from outside sources, and finally some help from CUSSW's financial aid, I'm gearing up for my first year at CUSSW. I'm excited for sure, but am wondering at this point how much just the MSW degree will do to help me with my career goals. I'm increasingly considering applying to the international affairs program at SIPA to help better my chances with my pursuing my career objectives. If I do the dual degree program, it means that I can earn 2 degrees within 3 years. On the other hand, if I pursue just the MSW, I'll just be in school for 2 years.
My goals are the following: To do close work with refugees and human trafficking survivors in the recovery process and do advocacy work and community organizing to galvanize survivors to speak out against the issue.
I believe that the clinical route in the MSW degree will equip me with the knowledge I need to work with this population...but I'm not sure whether it will be enough to pursue the advocacy work that I would like to do. Moreover, I'm becoming increasingly convinced (as a result of the infrastructural changes that are happening within the non-profit I work for) that an MIA will give me the "internationally minded" policy background that I'll need to get hired for the kinds of positions I'm going for.
The thing is, I'm willing to go through 1 more year of school and financial struggle for the second degree, if I can significantly better my skill set and do stronger work for refugees and human trafficking survivors...
Hmm...I've been mulling this over for the past 2 months and have actually been taking 2 economics courses in preparation for the application, should I decide to apply (The admissions FAQ in the SIPA webpage recommend taking at least 2 econ classes). What do you all think?
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Just to reemphasize - name recognition is certainly not the only way to get into international NGO work - it is simply one avenue out of many and there are certainly no guarantees just because you went to a "big name school" that you will get the job of your dreams. Going to a state school and then going overseas to volunteer and make connections is also a viable approach.
Good luck!
So, if I'm hearing you all right, name recognition only comes into play on the international/ngo type work. Yeah, that appeals to me but it's not practical right now (or for another 15 years or so).
I hear you with the VA jobs. It's a passion of mine and I've been told how difficult it is to get in, but I've also heard that if you do your field work/practicum/internship with the VA and you do a good job/make connections it's a lot easier.
I think I'll avoid going into (too much) debt and go for one of the state schools where I live.
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Hi,
I do agree about not going into to debt if you want to go into straight-up social work direct practice, i.e. case management which is clearly one of the worst paying jobs in America - and always has been!
However, if you are interested in applying your MSW in a different direction, let's say combine it with an MPA or MPH or your existing masters to go into academic research (as TerriM mentioned), international consultancy work, work with a large INGO (Red Cross, IRC, etc) or a job at the UN even, then it likely may be worth it if you have one of these specific career goals.
The bottom line on deciding what is 'absurd' versus 'logical' in terms of education debt really depends on what it is you want to do in this broad field and where priorities are (i.e.paying for house and mortgage instead of loans). Common sense would tell us that if you want to work with homeless women in inner-city Chicago, a position I held for several years, going into huge debt is not worth it as I was making around $40,000 with an exisiting masters. Alternately, if you are interested in workin with the IRC, in Sudan for example, a masters from a school with perhaps some more connections can help quite a bit....as a current development worker with well over ten years of experience in the nonprofit sector, I do see this quite a bit. But I don't want to imply that gaining an MSW from a school without a high profile will keep you from achieving higher paying international work - it just might be a little more challenging or take a bit more time.
So when you apply - depending on what it is you really want to pursue - apply to a wide range of schools from NYU to NSU, you may be surprised about what you can achieve with your existing stats!!
Best of luck to you
I think the main reason you're not getting responses is because a lot of people aren't on gradcafe at this point in time. Once the acceptances start rolling in, people tend to stray a bit
.I personally think you have a good shot at any of the programs listed, though you should keep in mind that VA social work positions are incredibly scarce. Life experience seems to be more important than grades for admission to most MSW programs and it sounds like you have some really strong work experience. That being said, the worst part about getting a MSW is the cost of education. If you don't plan to go into academic research, then the name and reputation of your institution isn't nearly as important as just having your clinical license. I really can't advise you enough to go wherever is cheapest which more often than not means going to a state school. Unfortunately, you're probably not going to be able to get great funding packages with your low GPAs. I have a great deal of work experience, a 3.8 GPA and excellent letters of recommendation and I got very little funding from Columbia or NYU (nevermind the cost of living in NYC). It's absurd to spend $120K to get a degree in social work, which was recently rated the worst paying job in America. Some people on this forum seem to think a MSW is worth that much, especially those who are excited about Columbia's international program, but I disagree. The truth is, though, if you're really interested in international social work there are countless opportunities to work or volunteer for international organizations. You could volunteer with local organizations that have an international focus, or you could take volunteer trips overseas for vacations. For now though, escaping your MSW with as little debt as possible (especially if you have a young family) is the most important piece of advice I can offer.
Best of luck with your applications and let me know if you have any other questions about the admissions process.
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It seems like a lot of you are interested in the international program and so I would like to give you some feedback i have heard from those that are currently taking that track: Go to SIPA unless you are very interested in learning about social work in general. There is only about 1 international class in social work dept. Yes, you can take classes at SIPA but again unless you are very interested in general social work classes for the whole first year, most people I have spoken to say they wish they were going to SIPA.
Good to hear this feedback as I am a prospective CUSSW student and this message has come across in quite a few instances when speaking with current/previous CUSSW students. However, it sounds to me that students often enter this program with different expectations that are more aligned with the SIPA program or they don’t fully understand the process of obtaining work internationally or within the international sector.
For example, many people I know who have gone to SIPA have done so in interest of pursuing policy analysis work and are quite interested in working within the UN and on more administrative/academic levels; less within 'the field.' (I stress that this certainly does not apply to all SIPA students, but many I have known!) In this case, I do see how SIPA would offer a superior academic experience if you were going to research aid distribution in West Africa, for example.
However, if your interest was to be a coordinator/director of a gender-based violence program on the Thai-Burma border, for example, with say the IRC, one of the most important things they would be looking for is a clinical background. With a social work psychosocial background, combined with existing overseas experience, there are quite a few international job opportunities that will open up to you, but would not open up if you had a degree from SIPA. If you want to be a researcher for an international think tank, by all means go to SIPA! But a degree from SIPA is not going to do as much for you if you want to be a technical advisor on sexual violence in the Congo.
I say this because I have been working overseas for three years without a clinical or social work background (I have a more theoretical MPH degree) and I have been told on several occasions that I need a more clinical background to go further into the field of working within the GBV sector with refugees. I can’t tell you how often I wished I had gone for a more ‘hands-on’ degree like an MSW over the MPH which is much more general. (Not to say an MPH is not worth while, it just was not the best fit for me)
This is only one example, but I believe it would apply to many of the subsectors of the international social welfare field that students are interested in. I understand the allure of working overseas – but jobs are highly competitive and the field is saturated with unemployed people with law degrees from NYU and MS degrees from SIPA. In short, this is not what gets you hired! It is the combination of overseas work (this is most important – two but normally three years is needed and can often be gained from Peace Corps or through other volunteer orgs) and practical skills that will catch people’s attention.
SIPA sets you up with a wonderful background in international affairs/development that is obviously superior to CUSSW academically, however the MSW will prepare you for a so very much if you want to work with grassroots communities, refugees, UNHCR, and more. I am dreading the first year at CUSSW in many ways – I know I don’t want to be a caseworker with substance abusers – but I do know understand that I will gain valuable skills that will greatly increase my employability through the process.
I guess I would like to wrap this up by saying that pursuing a career in international development work does not come to you by way of a superior academic degree although it can help with initial contacts (many of my friends/colleagues fall into this category) but is rather heavily based on real world experience, proof of cross-cultural competence and having practical skills to offer others.
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I am for sure going to Columbia for my MSW [macro] with a Minor in International Welfare. I also got invited to a pilot policy practice program. Did anyone get invited/considering that?
Hi there!
Yes, indeed am considering the policy pilot program...I am planning to do the International Welfare track (have been working overseas in advocacy work for the past three years) and minor in law. This program sounds great as it frees you up to take more classes inter-departmentally during your last year, such as through SIPA which, from what I have heard, is where the really interesting classes are (if you are interested in international issues.)
I put my $400 deposit down but may be now have a job opportunity with IRC that would be difficult to pass up! This is a tough decision though because the job is in a tiny, hole-in-the-wall town on the Thai-Burma border and it's hard to pass the excitement of NYC up for that!
Are you planning to take out the Grad PLUS loans or did you find alternate funding?
Good luck to you!
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Hi,
Well - I lobbied the heck out of them and got the max scholarship of $8000 which helps and will be hearing about the further availability of work study funds in May. But even still, I'm still not sure I want to make this sacrifice!
On one hand much of the program is just right for me - they now have what's called an accelerated policy program where your field placement is slightly cut down (you are in the field 2.5 days a week) and you take an additional class each semester first year, which frees you up to take other classes year two, inter-departmentally. There are classes through SIPA I'd love to take - as well as through the public health and journalism schools.
But the DEBT! I did put down a deposit (which goes toward tuition, of course) but if something better comes up (like an amazing job!) I may bite the bullet and kiss that $400 goodbye. It's a gamble, but one in the end that I felt was worthwhile as I've been living overseas for the past three-years and have few job connections in the US and will be moving back in July. So...it least I have something lined up...albeit a very expensive "something!"
Anyone else?
And Congrats again TerriM about Oxford. That sounds like a wonderful, affordable opportunity!
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On 4/28/2010 at 2:35 AM, emoleys said:
Lucky you! It looks like you've got a great array of choices to pick from! Congratulations!
One of my former colleagues went to U. of Chicago and she only had good things to say about the program. She works as a case worker in a homeless shelter for women and she felt that the program really helped prepare her and the school itself carries a bit of the "branding" that can be helpful in the job search.
As for USC, I work with some of the interns that they have placed in the non-profit I'm at and I get really mixed responses from them about the program. They range from a general "it's not bad" to "don't go." One of the complaints that I got was that the school is cutting less funding toward the MSW program and pouring it into their MSW abroad center that they are trying to build up in Taiwan. As a result, the program is running low on vital resources. All the interns compliment the program for the excellent faculty that teach there. I think that it's a consensus that what you get out of the program, depends on how much you put in (applies I think for any program!).
I'm sorry, but I really don't know anything about the UCLA program. Either way though, these are all great programs you're looking at!
Hi emoleys,
Not to change the subject of this topic, but have you decided on Columbia?
And regarding your school situation, pepper88, I have heard GREAT things about WUSTL and it is consistently rated as a top school.
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I'm glad to hear you raised your scholarship, even a little. You've inspired me.
So, I've decided to go for it...I went to the admitted students shmooze-fest and felt that it would be a really good place for me. I qualify for and am extremely interested in the international social work program, as I've written before. Also, I feel like the name and alumni network and those benefits are worth the cost. I plan on formally borrowing money from my grandmother, or if not her some other private source, and though it does practically give me an ulcer, I really think it's worth it. Hopefully I'll also be able to find more substantial $ for the second year.
Nevertheless, I totally understand your hesitation. I think if I were just interested in something like school social work, or regular clinical practice, I would go somewhere in-state and more affordable. In my particular situation I just want to go for this incredible opportunity. As soon as I found out I was in, there was really no other alternative.
Let me know what you decide!
Congrats on finally coming to the decision! That must feel great!
So I gather you had a positive impression at the schmooze fest?
Well, I still can't seem to convince myself that it is worth the money - even though I'm sure it is if you really put a lot into it! I know it is the kind of place where you can really get a lot from it if you put a lot into it!
I may defer. Or win the lottery tomorrow! We shall see...
Congrats to you!!!
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i havent heard from hunter yet!! i received an email asking to set up an interview. since i am out of state it says we can call to make other arrangements. thye always connect me to voicemail and never call back. did you have to do the interview??
so far i have only heard from columbia... i will end up going there if i dont find out from nyu or hunter very shortly! the deposit for columbia is due in 2 days eeeeek!!!
Hi meisman,
If you do choose to go to Columbia, do you have any idea as yo how you will afford it?
I know two days - I'm still unsure - yikes!
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Annie, what did you do to get them to change it? Email or call? Or camp out in their office? I really need to get on that.
Ha - well, if I did not currently live in Thailand I think I might camp out in front of financial aid and hold a little protest/rally for more aid!
I wrote a letter discussing my circumstances - i.e. that I'm dirt poor!
Anyway, are you going?
I mean, is anyone willing/able to attend with such costs?
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I heard back today via email
Well, I tried lobbying for more aid from Columbia and got the amount increased from $4,500 to $6,000. Still not very much! So, I am trying for another appeal....I hope they don't get too annoyed!
Anyone else?
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I think work study is need based according to income you listed on the FAFSA so I don't think the school has the power to change that, but I could be totally wrong. I'm pretty sure everyone is eligible for Federal Direct PLUS loans to cover the remainder of their expenses but unfortunately they carry an incredibly high interest rate at 8.5%. Sorry you're having such a hard time with all of this
. Good luck getting it sorted out!Hi,
I am in the exact same situation. I am wondering, who else is and what are the most viable options?
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Congrats on your decision! I feel the same way about the immigrants and refugees concentration. It's right up my alley! This is the reason why I'm really excited about the Columbia program, despite the financial aspect.
I really wanted to fly to NYC to come the admitted students day, but my work schedule won't allow me to do so. I'm just going to go to the local student event they're having here in LA. Please post about you learn at the event! I really wish I can be there.
I suppose the international concentration is a big draw for many students as it would be the only reason I would consider going into debt for Columbia. But they do only let a handful of students in to the program each have had considerable overseas experience so that is something to keep in mind.
I am still hoping to talk with a couple of students/grads to make my final decision - I am still torn between a program that I know I will enjoy and loads of debt! I suppose if I was planning to go the clinical route without this specialized focus then, no, I would not be considering the financial investment into Columbia.
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I got my Columbia financial aid package by email this evening. It's better than NYU, but pretty much as expected. Anyone else hear back from them?
Ugh. Yes, I got mine. Very disappointing as expected. Can I ask, what did you get in scholarships?
I think I might be pretty crazy for considering this debt!
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Howdy,
I have heard a lot about the new loan program Obama is working on, however I understand it does not start until 2014. With this program, I understand that you will only pay 10% of monthly income? For all of those still thinking about going into debt for Columbia, this would be great if it started now. Also - does anyone know any details regarding the arrangement at Columbia where social work students - if they work in either the nonprofit or public sector - only have to worry about it for ten years and then the remaining amount is forgiven? That's pretty doable!
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Seriously. Did you get their mass email a while ago that explained the reasons for the delay? Something about implementing a new online system or some nonsense. Hope you hear soon!
I did get it - nonsense indeed! But, alas, I still wait...
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Yay! Congratulations
.Wow, I feel like I've been waiting for my aid letter from Columbia for ages.
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That's disappointing to hear. Schools seem to be increasingly short on money to pay for resources and are using student fees to pay. Makes me feel even more anxious and apprehensive about my financial aid package. I'm seeing some SIPA students receive pretty decent fellowships, though. I read somewhere in this forum that someone got 20k per year? I'm a little hopeful but not expecting a miracle.
As for the large class size, for me, I went to a large public university, so I don't mind that too much. I think that it also makes some sense, since so many people are losing their jobs or are being relegated to work that they are not satisfied with (such is the case with me). Many are opting to go back to school instead of working. I hope that the increase doesn't represent a lower standard in admission and program quality but rather a solution to the higher number of grad school applicants that are qualified.
I'm looking forward to hearing more about what current/former students have to say about the program, both negative and positives. I can't deny that part of my decision to attend Columbia was the name part. However, from at least some of what I've read, the program quality does live up to the prestige of the name. It seems that a lot of dissatisfaction stems from field placement. I hope that I don't wind up in that position!
Thank you, TerriM, for sharing this info. It must have been exciting to receive that phone call! And congratulations on your decision to attend Oxford! You're going to get an amazing education there.
Wow, it's really disappointing to hear so many negative things about Columbia. I have heard, cumulatively, quite a bit of not-so-great info on the school and I'm really regretting that it is the only program I applied to!
I just thought it was quite perfect considering my international social work interests. Well, I suppose things are what you make them and you do have the opportunity to take a lot of classes on an interdepartmental basis - such as within SIPA, so perhaps I'm not a total sucker for considering it...but perhaps I am!!!!
Congrats, TerriM on the Oxford decision - that is truly exciting!
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I haven't heard yet, either, and I don't look forward to finding out how little aid I'll be receiving. However, I visited on Friday and was really impressed with the building, people and program. I'm still waiting to hear from other schools, but Columbia has been and still is my first choice. The price takes my breath away, but I really feel like the education is worth it.
Indeed - I am not looking forward to that letter stating the tiny aid amount either!
But I now have new concern! I don't know what I was thinking, but I thought the internship was limited to the second year and now feel very discouraged that we have to do one both years. This makes working part-time for pay seem totally unfeasible!
What do you think? Also, do we have any say in our first year internship? Or do they just plop us down at any random agency? I feel like I am losing hope in this "dream" I had! Or perhaps I was just idealizing the situation.
Well, not to be a bummer. I'm sure it will work out splendidly for all of these who put their heart into it.
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Hi,
I am wondering about field education and policy-focused students. As I understand, first year students have to be "interns" in direct service work for most programs regardless of chosen concentration. After reading about this, I am not sure social work is the right field for me. Also, are people who have been working for years in the field supposed to suddenly commit themselves to three days a week of unpaid intern work? I simply feel like I have too much experience to suddenly be an intern.
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Hi everyone.
I'm trying to apply for grad school.
However, I can't decide which one to go between MSW or MPH- community health.
I'm currently working for social service organization.
My work is little bit more related to public health field, but also social work.
I've seen both fields for 2 years and I like both.
(I know that what I've seen is not all. that's why I can't decide!)
What kind of personality would be need for social work career?
Which one would be better field in general? (salaries, vision, career... etc)
I also know about dual degree.
But, there are only a few schools that offer the program and
my gpa is not enough to get in to those schools! <- this is the point =(
I say go for both your MPH and MSW, absolutely!
I received my MPH in 2003 and am now (hopefully) embarking on my MSW this fall. The reason for this is that I just did not ind that my MPH alone qualified me for my professional social/behavioral interests.
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Yeah, I'm interested in this focus for the MSW at Columbia, too. I think that you don't have to be from another country. They just want you to have worked with immigrants, refugees, etc. in some capacity. I guess, to put it simply, they want you to have worked with people other than American-born citizens.
Hi all,
I am not an international student but have spent the past three years living and working with Burmese refugees in Thailand, so perhaps this will be sufficient experience? However, my understanding is that you have to apply for your concentration into your first year - does anyone have a greater understanding about this?
Also, if you applied for the policy track and if at some point during your first year you change your mind and decided to go clinical you can switch, correct?
Anyway - about funding - I really, really do not want to take out private loans but does everyone have to do this? I am pretty set on attending on Columbia but am waiting for my financial aid letter before I send in my $400. Anyone else waiting or, if you have decided on Columbia, are you just going ahead and securing your place with a deposit? A lot of questions, I know...just feeling a tad lost at this point about how to approach this funding issue! Thanks a lot all...
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Hi - all and congrats again.
Well, Columbia is the only school I applied to for its strength in policy practice and international focus - so I think I'm going to bite the bullet and go into debt for something that will clearly benefit throughout my career and I've got quite a few years ahead of me! Any thoughts? Do you think there is an element logic to this?
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Hi,
I know discussing Columbia's huge price tag is a very common conversation thread here, but I thought it might be a good time to share our thoughts and strategies on how to make it happen...or even if it's worth it?
Anyway, I am very much on the cusp! I suppose all we can really do for now is wait on financial aid/loan info that is to come in the next couple of weeks.
Anyway - congrats to all who got admitted!
MSW/MPH dual degrees
in Social Workers Forum
Posted
Hi,
I'm a current MSW student with an existing MPH - people do it all the time with the clinical focus and it is an extraordinarily useful combo. Your job prospects will be much greater...
Good luck!