Revolage

Religiousphilosopher, Just as an aside, this year, Notre Dame's philosophy department offered doctoral acceptances to 10 students. Of the 10, three of them were friends of mine from the philsophy department at Northern Illinois University (they were all M.A. students). For a great department like Notre Dame to accept three students from one school is very unique, and speaks well of NIU's philosophy program (of which I'm a proud graduate). None of the three want to focus on philosophy of religion (they want to do philosophy of mind and epistemology), but all three are evangelical Christians, for what it's worth. Revolage

Sbyoda02: I agree with Rafnow. It may also help to consider what you want to do or where you want to go for your doctoral studies. Boston College is a well-respected Catholic instituion. If you wanted to go to another Catholic institution upon completing your MTS (say, Notre Dame), you'd be in a good position. Also, Boston's PhD program in Theology is excellent as well, and of course, you'd have an "in" if you applied as an MTS student. Also: 1. Full tuition is very important these days - don't take the offer lightly. 2. Boston is the best city in the US to study in general, but especially when it comes to religion/theology. I've mentioned in previous posts (I think) the Boston Theological Institute, which is a partnership between Boston College, Boston University, Harvard Divinity School, Andover-Newton, Episcopal Divinity, Godron-Conwell, Holy Cross, St. John's Seminary, and Weston Jesuit. If you're enrolled at any of these schools, you can take courses and access resources at any of the others, not to mention the various colloquia and projects they collaborate on. It's one of the reasons I'm *STILL* eagerly waiting my funding package from Boston University (just checked the Saturday mail - nothing!). 3. I met a few of the PhD students when I went to BC to visit. They all were extremely nice, grounded, helpful, and serious about their scholarship and faith. So, I guess my vote (given your situation) is Boston College. I think we've exhausted the merits/demerits of the University of Chicago Divinity School.

Stipends also vary greatly according to discipline. Religion/theology majors don't often get high stipends because their departments don't generate large government grants or receive large endowments/gifts from their millionaire graduates (mostly because theologians don't end up as millionaires). The exception to this would be Catholic universities. When I visited Boston College, a prof there told me that the Theology department is a high priority at the school and gets preferetial treatment in a variety of ways, including funding. I've seen philosophy majors receive offers in the low 20's. The real money goes to science and business majors. Science departments, especially at major universities, do a lot of research that the government and large corporations are interested in. I know of a student in a physics department at a state university who got $28,000 - and I *think* he was an M.A. student. Also, business alumni often give very heavily. There's a millionaire grad at the university I recently attended who has funded a ton of stuff, including two, state-of-the-art buildings. He also mentors the business students, so I know he's kicking in a lot of $$$ for them.

So, I received an email today that I was accepted into Marquette's Theology program (PhD). Great news! However, I'm wait-listed for funding. Now, I understand the whole wait-listing/funding hustle, but I almost wish programs only accepted those they could fund. I'm excited about Marquette's program, but what may end up happening is that I find out that a TA-ship or scholarship opened up *after* the April 15th deadline. Which, of course, won't do me any good at that point. I guess I can just hope that enough people turn down their offers before the 15th so that I can make a clear decision. And, for those keeping score at home, I still have not yet received a funding letter from Boston University, even though I was accepted a month ago.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=28679 This is an article about the new University of Chicago president, Robert Zimmer. The 2nd paragraph and the last section deal with religion - Zimmer has banned religious references from all university events (including at Rockefeller Chapel). I realize the US is headed down this path (in 20 years we'll be like Europe), but I still think it's ridiculous. You can't make religious references in chapel? I wonder what the Divinity School faculty thinks about this? I wonder if there'll continue to be a Divinity School. I mean, giving this guy's disposition, he can't be too supportive of it. What do you all think?

I'd just like to second Stud. Theol's mention of humility. I'm tired of arrogant scholars, and it's especially shameful in religious studies. I too was greatly humbled by being shut out last year, but I'm using it to keep my head at ground level as I proceed. Philmajor: How to adjunct? First, go to the websites of colleges in your geographic location. Here's a listing of colleges in Chicago (http://www.50states.com/college/chicago.IL.htm) and Illinois (http://www.50states.com/college/illinois.htm). Community colleges will allow you to teach with an M.A., but some four-year schools will also. Now, I'm not sure about your specific program at Chicago, but since you're a religious person, you may have a rougher time finding positions at secular schools. Most schools have a World Religions course or its counterpart that you could teach. I'm not sure if you could teach, say, an Ethics or Introduction to Philosophy course. If so, that would help. You definitely will want to consider Christian/Catholic schools since they'll naturally line up with your M.A. Now, once you've chosen a group of schools (I'd aim for 15 or so), go to the websites and find the religion or philosophy departments. Then, send the chair a nice introductory email with your vita attached. Here's the email I came up with which has been quite productive in getting return emails; "Good morning! My name is John Doe, a graduate student in the Philosophy Department at State University. I will graduate with my M.A. in Philosophy in a few weeks, and I was writing to inquire as to whether there were any faculty openings available over the next academic year, particularly in the philosophy or religious studies disciplines (I'm deferring PhD plans for one year). Along with my philosophy degree, I have an M.A. in Christian History and Theology from ABC College, and a B.A. in Linguistics from Mountain University. In addition to extensive experience as a graduate teaching assistant at State University (over 100 students each semester), I also had the privilege of teaching a course in philosophy last summer at a local community college (Smallville Community College). In this capacity, I had full responsibility for the course and received excellent evaluations from my students. Being in the midst of a challenging graduate program, and having already earned a graduate degree from a well-respected theology department, I am prepared to teach a variety of courses in philosophy and religion, especially: Introduction to Philosophy Introduction to Greek Philosophy Symbolic Logic Critical Thinking/Reasoning Philosophy of Religion World Religions Ethics Apologetics Theology I would welcome the opportunity to sit down and discuss any opportunities that may exist at XYZ College. My CV is attached for your consideration, and I look forward to speaking with you soon. Sincerely, Revolage" There is always a huge demand for adjuncts, so if you are thorough and persistent, you'll find more than enough openings. Each semester I've adjuncted, I've had more offers than I could accept. Some advice: when you interview, find out what freedom you'll have in the course. Some schools have the syllabus already prepared and also have the textbooks chosen. Personally, I like to do my own thing, so I prefer schools that will let me craft the syllabus from scratch and choose my own textbook(s). Community colleges don't pay well (another reason to also consider four-year colleges in your search) - on average, they pay around $1,500 per 3-credit course. State universities pay a bit more - Northern Illinois University, for example, pays $3,500 per course. If you can, see if you can teach online courses - those seem to be a growing trend, and you may be able to get several of those (and get paid for each one) even though you won't have to teach in person. Okay, I have a lot more advice, but I'll stop for now. Hope that was helpful.

Eh...I'm over most of the flu, but now the wife and son have it. So, I'm nursing them to health as well. And no, no word from BU yet. Have you considered adjuncting? There are a zillion opportunities in Chicago and the surrounding suburbs. I know you'd rather just take time to let all of this sink in before committing to any one course of action, but now would be a good time to get your vita out.

Philmajor, Ah. Sorry to hear the news. I had suspected that internal candidates had an advantage in this process - it just seems hard to beat when they already have well-established contacts with the faculty who have already reviewed and commented on their writing samples. Add to that the fact that the process is simpler than the mess us "externals" have to go through, and there seems to be a clear advantage. i'm sorry that advantage didn't work to *your* benefit. As others have already posted, don't give up hope. Many of us (self included) hit .000 our first time up. I've already posted a few pages back as to what I think people should do during that year off. I would certainly suggest applying again next year, and broadening your school base. Despite the frequent references to the same small number of schools on this forum, there are a *lot* of programs in the United States dealing with religion and philosophy of religion. I realized during my year off that, even though school reputation and faculty are important factors, I ultimately wanted to go to a program where I can study and just focus on what I want to do. Maybe it's the anti-materialistic aspect of my nature, but I became less cocnerned with prestige and more concerned with finding my niche and being content, especially when I realized that a lot of people that I respected didn't go to big name schools. For example, Paul Copan got his PhD in Marquette's Theology program. He's now a prof at Palm Beach Atlantic University. It's not a prestigious post, but he's publishing a great deal in philosophy of religion and doing some very important work. He's one of the reason I'm (still) hoping to get into Marquette. Anyway, let me know what other counsel I can offer. And consider Boston University next year. I mean, where else can you get an Institute for Philosophy and Religion (http://www.bu.edu/ipr/)?

GradCafers, Sorry I've been missing in action. Got hit with a terrible case of the flu - body aches, headaches, excessive coughing, vomiting,...err, never mind. Anyway, yesterday (Friday, March 14, 2008) I received a letter from the U of Chicago Div. School that read (in part): "...I am sorry to inform you that we were unable to offer you admission." The letter was dated March 11, 2008. I live about 45 minutes west of Chicago. Rejections always suck, but after some of what I've read on this forum the past few days, I can't say I'm terribly disappointed. Of course, it helps that I've already gotten a few acceptances. Anyway, now I can root for Philmajor to get in off of the waitlist. I think someone recently posted about Boston University. I received a letter of acceptance from them back on March 3, 2008 (the letter was dated February, 26, 2008). Specifically, I got into the Religion program in the Division of Religious and Theological Studies, NOT the School of Theology.

Philmajor: congrats on the wait-list. Even though it's semi-positive news, I can imagine that it's driving you absolutely batty knowing that you may have to wait another month or so before this thing is settled. What area of study did you apply to again? Since they normally don't wait-list, maybe you're the *only* person in a holding pattern, and one rejection from someone else will do the trick.

Thatindividual: Congratulations! Which program did you get accepted into? And what's with this half-tuition thing? Is that only for master's level students?

It's funny. When I was rejected from the Div. School last year, one of my letter-writers said that he wonders if I would have liked it anyway. He said it's where fun goes to die, and that the Univ. of Chicago can be a cold place to study. I've also heard that there's not a lot of collegiality and that - as we've all heard - it can take forever to get a PhD there. It's odd that foureyes said some similar things. For those who are more familiar with it (e.g., philmajor): what are your impressions? What is the basis for such consistent rumors?

Thursday Postal Mail Check: nothing from the University of Chicago Thursday Email Check: nothing from the University of Chicago I'm trying hard not to complain or be bitter, so I'll just - in the words of Wittgenstein - "pass over in silence."

Philmajor, First-year students are too busy for us lowly applicants! Thanks for the info about the prohibition on email notifications. I requested my status last year and got it via email, and since someone else had a simliar experience today, I figured it couldn't hurt to ask. You would think that since it's such a strong policy, they'd place it on the website or something, but que sera sera. Oh well, 16 more hours won't hurt! PS - Philmajor, I sent you a PM via this forum.

Philmajor: I hope so - that would bode well for me. As for Harvard: when I went to visit them and met with a prof there in the Study of Religon program, he said similar things about Harvard. Basically, his point was that they have lost a key number of scholars (including in philosophy of religion), so whoever was accepted there would have to be very "attentive" and focused. By this he meant that they would have to piecemeal their program together since there was no set structure in place. However - as already mentioned - he did say they anticipated making a number of new hires in the next year or two. Chicago Update: no response to my email yet. I guess I'll have to wait until tomorrow after all.

religionstudent, Sorry to hear that. I'm glad you have an excellent option already locked up, but still. I just sent the Dean an email (and God a prayer!).

Philmajor: any word from Chicago? I just checked my mail and nothing. Not just from the Univ. of Chicago, I mean there was no mail at all (and the mailman has already made their rounds). Seeing an empty mailbox when I've been amped up all night waiting for this kinda hurts, but it's also kinda funny. I'm sure I had a broke look on my face when I opened the mailbox! Of course, our expectation is based upon the word of an alleged "insider", so I'm not sure if that's reliable or not. Should I email the Dean of Students and just ask?

I'll just add that I agree with Stud Theol. on the benefits of two M.A.'s, having gotten two in the same areas as he did. Again, it' s hard enough to get one graduate degree, never mind trying to add two more, but I do think it makes one more attractive when you want to do interdisciplinary work. I attended a panel on getting a PhD a few years ago, and one of the strong themes was the increasing importance of being able to merge disciplines, and bringing the insights of one to bear upon the other in new, innovative ways.

Philmajor, My interests are Barth, Wittgenstein, philosophical theology, and religious epistemology (especially how non-Western philosophy/religion can inform, say, Christian philosohpy of religion). My meeting was with Dr. Gamwell. Did you apply elsewhere (pardon me if you've posted this earlier in the forum). I've already been accepted to Boston University, and would be quite content to go there, although I'd also love to attend Chicago's Divinity School and Marquette. What did I do during my year off? Funny you should ask - I just posted an answer to this question over at LiveJournal's "Who Got In?" forum for Philosophy. Here's my post verbatim (followed by commentary): "Here's my advice to those who are 0 for X: 1. Seek out those graduate admissions directors at schools you applied to in order to obtain a faculty appraisal of your application. Most may not give you the time of day, but the ones who do will be helpful. 2. Consider applying to programs (next year) where your letter writers have friends (e.g., people they've worked on projects with, people they attended grad school with, etc...). As I wrote in another post, in 2008, it's still all about who you know. 3. As a corollary to #2, try to visit those programs you're most interested in and get some face-to-face time with people. If you're on top of your game and present yourself well, it will help your application (because now they'll have a face and pleasant experience to add to the otherwise faceless sea of applications they receive). 4. During your year off, be diligient to do (or at least try) two things: (a) try to get a paper published in a journal (even if it's small-time) or present a paper at a conference (again, even if it's small-time), and ( see if you can adjunct at a local college (most likely, a community college). Teaching will look great on your vita (and future application), will deepen your understanding of philosophy, and will also let you know if you *really* want to do this as a career. 5. Start the process early and see if you can get some help from professors at your school. 6. Follow Blogical Necessity's masterful guide on acing the GREs (http://blogicalnecessity.blogspot.com/2 ... mised.html). He aced them and teaches for Princeton Review, so he should know." Commentary: I focused on the teaching. After being rejected in my first attempt, I wasn't sure what I wanted to do, so I decided to see if I really enjoyed academia. I had already taught a course while working on my 2nd M.A., but I wanted to jump in with both feet. It's a *lot* of work, but I'm enjoying it and I can tell it's helped my application with schools that focus on teaching. My GRE scores were already pretty good for a first-time attempt, so I left those alone. I fully intended to get something published and maybe present at a conference or two, but between the teaching and family (wife and a son), the time got away from me and I wasn't able to polish a few projects on the back burner. I also accepted a research assistant project from one of my letter writers. I was also diligent to visit schools, hitting five total. I had very good interactions each time and thought it was a good investment of time and money. Hope that helps. And I hope you get in somewhere so that you don't have to follow the above advice.

Philmajor, I can't say I know a lot about how the Univ. of Chicago Divinity School does admissions. However, I was rejected last year, so I did learn a little. Apparently, it depends on which area of study program you apply to. For example, they told me that philosophy of religion (the program I applied to) gets about 15-20 applications per year, and of that, they normally accept 1 or 2. If you apply to some of the more popular areas of study, your chances of acceptance may increase a little. The Dean of Students at the Divinity School can inform you exactly which profs will be reading your application (again, based upon your intended area) and recommends coming to the school, sitting in on a class, and meeting with the prof. I have no idea how the internal vs. external distinction works (I'm an external applicant myself). If I had to guess, I would imagine that if you're a great internal candidate both in terms of your academic competence and interpersonal skills (i.e., they "like" you), you'd have a great chance of getting in. I met with one of the profs and thought it went fairly well, so I'm optimistic that it will push me over the edge. Although, when you think about the fact that they might choose ONE person to represent the philosophy of religion group, it does seem a little hard. I mean, if they choose one, you'd have to be the #1 candidate, right? Anyway, I will post as soon as I hear anything.

I'm in the Chicagoland area, so I may get my letter from the Univ. of Chicago's Divinity School as early as tomorrow. Knowing that decisions are made, I'm *so* tempted to contact the Dean and just ask. However, I will try to refrain and endure one more questioning night. Why didn't I apply to all of those programs that informed their applicants in early and mid February? Some of my colleagues got into top-notch programs a month ago, and have been relaxing ever since.

Regarding Marquette: since decisions will be officially sent out via the Graduate School (and not the Theology Department itself), I would imagine that notifications will include both the decision and the funding. The email didn't specify that, but that's the impression I got.

Marquette Theology Update (based upon an email received from a faculty member around 3PM CST on 3/10/2008): 1. Lots of impressive applications this year. 2. They are hoping to make admission decisions this week, which might still happen. 3. After that, however, financial aid still needs to be determined. So, I'm thinking late next week - at the earliest. I'm excited about Marquette, so it's hard to wait that long. Whoever designed the graduate admissions process to give applicants a one-month window (or less) to make a major life decision wasn't realistic! Personally, I think applications should be due in September, worked on by faculty during the Fall semester, and then admissions/rejections can be sent out over the Christmas break. That way, applicants have most of the Spring semester to plan, visit, compare offers, look for jobs/apartments/etc...

Regarding Marquette's Theology Department: I called the department and the grad school yesterday afternoon (3/7/2008). They said that, although the grad school has forwarded the applications to the Theology Department for evaluation, the Theology Department has not yet sent the applications back to the Grad School indicating who's been accepted/rejected. So, it seems like it will still be a few more days before official word is sent.

No word from Marquette (Theology) as of today's mail (3/7/08).