Chris83
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Posts posted by Chris83
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Most schools do this-- over offer because they historically always have folks turn them down. It's a really common practice. I think programs have recently started cutting down on this because with the increased applications, decreased spots, and therefore increased competition it's much more of a gamble to over-offer than it previously panned out to be. Purdue used to offer more slots than they have, but this year they are not.
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I'm in composition and rhetoric, so I'm not sure of the advantages and disadvantages of doing this in literary studies, but I thought I'd mention one thing I used my campus visits to do: talk openly and candidly about the other programs I was considering in addition to theirs.
I was really up front with the faculty I spoke with about what my other options are. I think comp/rhet is a smaller community, and I felt comfortable being candid with everyone I spoke with. I wasn't doing it to brag-- I was doing it because it added some context to our discussion, and I really valued the different perspectives that I've heard. I found it really helpful, and I even had one professor, hearing me list my acceptances and then say which among those I was considering, tell me "now wait-- I don't want to sound like I'm not advocating our program, but you shouldn't be so quick to dismiss school X because blah blah blah."
Again, I'll stress that this is something I've felt comfortable doing as a comp rhet person because it's a small community of scholars. In fact, my top choice school has graduates placed at my other schools, so they have been helpful in giving me some perspective for both their programs and the one they graduated from.
Another advantage to being open and candid about this process is that you might get to meet others who have been in your shoes. At both of my campus visits I was referred to students who had found themselves choosing between the school I was visiting and one of my other options. So those conversations have been really helpful for me.
My take on this is that comp/rhet is such a small community of scholars that do sort of want to be collegial and help each other out. In fact, one of the best parts of this experience for me has been realizing that even if I don' choose School A, for example, I will still be a part of the community of scholars that school A belongs to. I've made some really great connections during this process that have made me feel really great about my decision to pursue a PhD in this field.
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Hope appears not lost for me and Washington. They're proposing that I attend for one-quarter and then go on-leave in year one. I am currently asking them about the details of this scenario.
Brian and Kathy are really good at their jobs (which are obviously pretty hard at the moment).
If your offer isn't funded, do you even have an obligation to accept their non-funded offer by April 15th? Seems to me that you could keep this as your backup plan as you wait to hear back from your wait-lists. (Though living in Seattle for even a quarter sounds pretty darned expensive and might also leave you feeling cohort-less.)
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But it is a program we didn't apply to! Do we even legally have to tell them anything? I'm just going to send an email and ignore any other emails from them giving me more instructions.
I think you should e-mail them AND include the photo so they know that their package came postage due. This is a case where I wouldn't worry about burning any academic bridges-- like you said, it's a program you didn't apply for.
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Unless you think you might apply to Rhet/Comp PhD programs, take the offer that best allows you to focus on your own research (provided other factors-- funding, program, etc-- are equal). I'm finishing up an MA where I've been teaching two classes of freshman comp a semester on my own (not TAing), and I don't think my teaching has enhanced my application-- except insofar as it has solidified my career aspirations.
I'd echo this. As a rhet/comp person the teaching has directly affected my research and I can't imagine being able to articulate my research goals for this statement of purpose without having had that experience, but that might not be the case for you. I think most PhD programs view the TA offer as recruitment tool and not a recognition of your teacher training. You might look around at some programs to verify this. I'd say that out of the 7 applications I did this year only 1 or 2 of them even required a separate teaching statement. (Requiring a teaching statement with the application can sometimes, but not always, indicate whether they award ta-ships on the basis of experience/desire to teach or not.)
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I'm certainly no expert on this subject, but it does seem that a lot of the (better, or at least higher-ranked) programs out there don't even have you do a lot of heavy teaching until after a year or two of coursework, rhet/comp training, tutoring and grading and writing center experience, etc. Then maybe they start you off with a section or two of Freshman Comp or English 101, Eventually, you work up to some literature or upper-level classes and maybe even design some courses of your own. I imagine that sort of training would get you ready for teaching at the post-MA/PhD level, and the more gradual pace certainly seems ideal to me. But I'm sure others are ready to dig in right away and get a head start on teaching. And perhaps PhD programs would have less of a hang-up trusting a transfer student with teaching responsibilities if they had some course evaluations to look at.
Anyone else have better or different insights?
Since many MA programs are unfunded, and many PhD programs admit students with a BA only, I'm not certain teaching experience is going to matter a lot-- but it depends. I would say that the writing center gig sounds like a pretty nice way to get your feet wet.
On the other hand, taking an offer with a TA-ship could be valuable for you in other ways. You'd get to find out sooner rather than later if you like teaching-- which could directly affect your decision to move onto a PhD.
This was a long way to say....I dunno. If all things are equal, then you should definitely take the best funded offer for the least amount of work. But if all things are NOT equal, then you need to evaluate what else is different among your offers.
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Easier to get in through the rhet/comp path to do literary work? Wow. This is why I can't stand you literary types.
I'd say about 2% of us have any interest in literature. If the OP takes your advice, she will be sorely disappointed. She should take the rhet/comp path only if she wants to do work that involves more than her, a book, and a computer screen.
I need to stand up on behalf of other rhet/comp people here-- Not picking a fight, but I think this is something that needs to be said. I know plenty of people that go to English PhD programs that do rhetoric and lit, so I'd disagree. I would say that RockDenali is correct to say that you can't take the rhet/comp path just as a way to pursue literature. But there are programs out there, I'm fairly certain, that can be a productive place in which to pursue rhetorical analysis of literary texts. These would have to be programs that offer an English PhD with an emphasis in rhetoric and not a standalone rhetoric department, of course. The key would be to look at the dissertations that come out of these programs to see if this type of work is valued and encouraged by the department. There are departments out there where lit and rhet folks (gasp) actually get along.
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I am happy to share the info but only if they ask-- I just don't want to presume that they really want to know or care. I think if I knew where I'd be going I'd say "I have accepted an offer at blank school" . At this point, though, I do know I'm accepting another offer. I haven't decided which offer, though. I just wanted to decline the schools I'd for sure ruled out.
They are, and you'll most likely be asked if you'd be willing to provide them.
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I honestly think something like this is all you need if you didn't have a lot of contact with the school:
Dear so and so,
I will be accepting an offer at another school, so I will have to decline your offer. I wanted to let you know as soon as possible so that you can extend my funding to someone else.
Thank you for the offer,
me
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Anyone?
They've made their first round of rhet/comp offers. If you haven't yet heard, you might be wait-listed. I'd check it out with the director or with the graduate assistant.
edited to add-- you can pm me if you want more details.
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I was also going to say (in a slightly different way) that the work you are doing now with immigrants made me think of how at home you might be in a Rhet/Comp program. I'd suggest checking out Louisville if you do this again-- they have Bruce Horner and Min Zhan Lu who are both doing exciting work with trans-lingual studies right now. There's a lit requirement, and from the students I've spoken with it sounds really flexible about what kind of lit you do for your comps. (meaning-- horror might be a possibility). But whatever you do, I wish you well.
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While "pedigree" will always carry a slight bit of weight in these situations (whether applying to school or applying to jobs), I think the fact that your MA is fully funded might be more important than the name of school at which you received it. That is, some schools with rather prestigious Ph.D programs seem to give students little to no funding to attend their MA programs, and I think that your full waiver/stipend at the less prestigious MA will look better than an unfunded MA from Harvard (even though there are certain benefits a prestigious school might provide, such as access to certain archives and scholars, I still think the funding looks great on your application because it shows that people believed enough in the work you're doing to pay you thousands and thousands of dollars to do it). Does that make sense? I think your MA acceptance sounds like a great option, so long as you take full advantage of the time and resources to improve your scholarship for Ph.D applications.
I think this is an excellent point.
When you visit you might ask if they can tell you where their MA students wind up-- what kind of PhD programs they enter.
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I can't decide between a few schools, and won't be able to decide until at least April 1 but maybe later. As soon as I rule schools out I'm letting them know, though.
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Hi rhet/comp friends! Here's a general question I'd like to get your feedback on. What is your sense of the differences between a "PhD in English with a concentration in Rhet/Comp" and a straight-up "PhD in Rhet/Comp"? Obviously this depends very much on individual programs, my areas of interest, faculty, etc, but I'd love to get your input on the general differences you've noticed between these types of programs, and especially the ways that potential job placement (always in the back of my mind) might change depending on which degree I will ultimately have. Basically, I have a decision to make, and I want to get as much input as possible from people with different perspectives and experiences, so any help would be appreciated!
I think it depends from program to program, but I'll echo what's been said here and say that the first big difference tends to be whether or not you have to comp in a lit area. What's your ultimate goal after the PhD? What kinds of programs would you like to teach in, and what kinds of courses do you want to teach? I think that's something you need to ask yourself, and then you need to look at the placement data for the schools you're considering. There's something to be said for being able to go out on the job market being able to teach a variety of courses (including literature) even if these courses are not all areas where you'd likely concentrate your research. On the other hand, many people think that the tides are turning and a literature background might add nothing to your profile when you go out on the market. It depends.
This is one of the things that's also weighing on my mind as I try to make a decision.
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I, as I usually am wont to do, spoke to soon. I just got an offer for funding at the master's level. I'm completely blown away, I thought it was impossible. It's for less than 14k a year, which is not much for Seattle, but still, I'm thrilled.
Congrats! Question-- did you get the funding info by mail (a second letter) or by e-mail? So far I've gotten the first letter, a letter from grad admissions, and a packet from registrar's but nothing related to funding.
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Looks like a couple of PhD admits popped up yesterday, too. Congrats to those who have heard. I agree-- I'd think you'd want to notify by a quicker means of communication if it's happy news.
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I applied to the MA program, and I just got an email from the English Dept. coordinator! It basically read "Welcome, congratulations, please respond by May 15th." The email also included dates for orientation, start of classes, etc. The only weird thing is that it was a forwarded email, with no personalization, so I am half afraid it was accidentally forwarded.
I'm thinking about calling tomorrow to ask for confirmation. No mention of funding, etc. Wondering if anyone else has heard anything?ASU has been pretty hands off-- I found out via an e-mail from the grad school that I was accepted the PhD program-- when I checked with the department I was told I was on a wait list for funding. That was a couple of weeks ago. Then yesterday I got the same e-mail you described. Check MyASU-- if you were admitted it should reflect that in your status.
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wow, great comments, all. It's certainly giving me something to think about. I think you're right, at the end of the day it's about "fit". Despite the creative writing emphasis, I am not simply aspiring to teach creative seminars but also academic writing and literature courses. The goal is to be a sort of "jack of all trades"--a mix of academic and creative writer, as well as literature, composition, and creative writing teacher. With the job market as it is, I feel it's important to be flexible. Teaching and academics are the hull that keeps the creative ship afloat, if you get my meaning. I love to write, but I doubt I'll ever make any money at it (literary fiction is a tough sell!) and I like teaching just as much as writing. A degree in English with creative dissertation is a win-win.
I appreciate the listing of schools by random data, but you're right, at the end of the day it has to be weighing out which schools have the most to offer. I really like TAMU's program, and I think I am a great fit for their department (which is why, I'm assuming, they chose me). But I wonder, if I get in anywhere else, how I will choose, and how much the school's ranking will factor in. From what you all are saying, not that much.
I think, given your goals, that you might also consider what type of teaching opportunities students get at these schools-- will you get the option to teach both creative writing and lit after you've taught your requisite first year comp courses? If you envision marketing yourself as a jack of all trades, then you should also look for departments that will provide you with those teaching opportunities.
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I will throw my two cents in. I think fit is really important too, as is how much support a department is willing to give you and how long it takes to get through the program. (These were criteria my advisor shared with me.)
I'm in comp/rhet, and some of the very best programs in that field are at schools that aren't ranked. (Take Louisville, for example, which only has a Comp/Rhet PhD therefore doesn't really show up on the "English" rankings because those rankings mostly consider literary study.)
So, when I make my decision, I'm going to consider a couple of factors. First-- is it likely I'll have a lot of professional development opportunities at this program? Do students seem to get through in 5 years or less? Do the faculty match up with what I want to do? And if so, if one or two of those people left would I still have people there to work with (with hiring freezes, I think this is more important now.)?
Rankings aren't as big a deal for me, but reputation certainly is. U of A's RCTE program is very well respected and claims a 100% placement rate.
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Have any Purdue rhet/comp applicants received notifications yet? I thought last week might be the week, but nothing. On a different note (and forgive my ignorance), but does 45 spots mean for the entire department? I was under the impression that each program within the department made their decisions independently from each other and had their own set number of spots. Is this incorrect?
I think I saw at least one rhet/comp acceptance in the very first wave of notifications. And I really don't know much about the stats. It could be that they got 500+ applications for all of English and divvy up 45 slots throughout the subfields, but I don't know. At this point, I suppose, we just have to wait. I did hear that for Rhet/Comp the director is making those decisions and nobody else in the department. But, I would not stake my life on this claim. I'm just clinging to whatever random piece of information I can find.
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Congrats on Case Western.
I quietly added my U of A acceptance to my status....pm me if you want any details. I'm starting to get all paranoid about posting specific details on this forum.
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My information is third-hand, but just to keep a glimmer of hope alive for the rhetoric and composition applicants, I heard from somebody that they were just getting to those decisions last week.
Super congrats saususndbraus, weatherwax, and anyone else who got an acceptance. That's amazing and commendable, considering those numbers!
My acceptance letter had the following statistics attached to it:
560 applications
45 spots
8% acceptance: "one of the largest and most competitive applicant pools ever"
This is a rough year for applications.
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Thanks Chris 83
I'm on my phone so can't see signatures but seem to recall you've done quite well yourself so congrats to you too! On the fit paragraph business, I was mixed about that as well. I did include a fit paragraph in most of my SOPs (only schools with a 500 word limit didn't so Madison and Kansas and I went 1-1 for those, but my fit with Madison was NOT great anyway). As my sig indicates, I've gotten some nice state school love, which I realy appreciate, but my reach/dream schools were having none of it (Stanford, Harvard, UC, Duke, Brown. . . Though Duke said I was close). Anywho, a guy in my MA program got waitlisted at UPenn and accepted at Brown and Cornell without a fit paragraph. Based on this sample size of two (so legit, I know
I think private fancy schools care less about those fit paragraphs than state schools. Yes, this statement is ludicrous and highly subjective, like this app process, so I think it really just depends on what you want to do and feel comfortable doing in your SOP.Thanks! I agree-- these recommendations on what to include in SOP's seem very subjective.
I was advised not to mention names but to craft my SOP so that I used key phrases that lined up with department strengths. That's what I did in the three SOP's for the schools I was accepted to. (I thought that was better because I didn't have to worry about leaving somebody out who might be doing work that would match with what I wanted to do.) I guess it worked for me, but I am only applying to state schools, so...who knows.
Cicada123, I'm glad you have a nice offer elsewhere, at least!
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Remember-- you've already impressed them. They are nervous about impressing YOU.
Purdue
in Literature, and Rhetoric and Composition
Posted
congrats! I think you got the spot I gave up.