President

Wow. You go to Princeton????

You have no right to judge unless you yourself have not made a single ethical compromise. We've all lied, cheated, and stolen before. The difference between you and I is the difference between Master and Slave morality.

So the key is to avoid getting caught working. My idea was that I should just work at a startup company and code for them while studying for the MS. I know several PhD students who actually have their own companies while studying for a fully funded PhD. As long as I prepare a research project before I begin the MS program, I'd be able to show to my advisor that I'm actually doing some research.. lol. She'll think that I'm having reasonable progress for a first year student. But thanks for the comments guys. You've really helped me solidify my plans to do this. I promise myself that I WILL do this, IF (1) I don't get admitted with a full-time scholly from an MS program or (2) My employer does not sponsor a part-time MS for me. That's the thing, I can definitely pull it off when it comes to work load - I worked 42 hours a week during the semester as an undergraduate, and during one summer, I worked 70 hours. Not to undermine the experiences of other people or anything, but all this struggling has made me realize that money's important, and feeling all guilty about ethical ramifications is just for suckers who had it good in life. But it's unfair to say this, but it's just a generalization.

The whole point is to get a Master's degree for free. In the U.S., those are very rare. I know this is off-point in a way, but tHe U.S. education system is pretty unfair if you ask me. Now we have people undergoing indentured servitude, not for a house/mortgage, but for a life-long repayment of college loans. We have English majors paying $30K a year without any prospects for having a real job. edited: You're right.. those people aren't really accountable, and I just pulled a reason out of my arse. I just realized that i said that to justify what i intend to do.

First of all guys, I lied - it looks like I really DON'T have a conscience compared to some of you. But think about it, I could spend $70 at a really, really nice restaurant 1,000 times with the money earned/saved. But you guys raise some good points - I think that the university assumes a good faith attempt at pursuing a PhD, and if my actions don't convince them that this is the case for me, then I could get in some big trouble. I can see that professors *might* have some reach in industry. But let me say that the WHOLE point of this plan is NOT to get caught. There are people who legitimately quit their program and leave with an MS after just one year. I just have to appear to be one of them. -But what do you guys think professors would say if I go ahead and invest my twenty hours of TA, 12 credits of coursework, and then do another twenty hours of software development at the same time? -I do have research experience, and I can continue to pursue one last LPU and one last conference on it while doing my 1.5 year MS. Any other insights that some of you might have that would enable people like me to have an easier time doing this? Thanks.

As a person with a conscience, I totally understand that there'd be emotional ramifications associated with carrying out this plan. That's why it's so important for me to remain detached from my advisors and strictly work out getting my "breadth" requirements (and hence my MS requirements) out of the way. I'm interested in the research that I've done, but a lot of the time, I just don't care about it. After all, my conscience doesn't pay the bills - money does. I could save about $30K in MS tuition expenses, get about $20K in stipend funding, and another decent sum of money from developing part-time. That's a potential $70K saved in direct and opportunity costs. Hence, aside from the ethical concerns of this diabolical plan, what are some possible stumbling blocks? Do MS/PhD programs prohibit first year students from working on software projects part-time? Or is it just a largely discouraged practice? Most importantly, How do advisors generally react to first year MS/PhD students that rarely contact them?

How difficult would it be to "pull off" this plan? If a software engineer works for about three years, and decides that he'd like to have a masters degree in order to bypass Human Resource screenings for new recruits, then couldn't he just apply for a fully funded MS/PhD program? I plan on working like 20 hours a week without the department noticing, and after the MS requirements are finished, I just drop out, saying a PhD is NOT for me. Free masters, additional work experience (probably at a start-up).

Yes. Asian women studying abroad from a third-world country are easier to pursue and to maintain for several reasons.

Yeah.. I'm aware of this fact. But $1700/month for three or so years looks very bleak.. seeing how I might have to support a family soon.

A PhD, in some cases, can be viewed as a M.S. + Dissertation. This could mean that a PhD is unnecessary for securing a research post at an industrial lab/consulting company. But is this close to impossible to pull off?

Yes

I was always the socially awkward one. Very introverted in a way. I seriously recommend you hanging out with some asian women.

Since you've already graduated, those courses will not be included onto your undergraduate transcript. There's absolutely no way for you to improve your GPA. But showing that you have the aptitude for CS through a local CC would never hurt. Most importantly, though, I think it's important for you to start working on personal software projects (i.e. freelance, or just for kicks). I recommend you to create your own homepage in the near future and upload some of the projects that you finish. But that's just my opinion. The reputation of the school isn't "important" per se. Your skills are important. The reputation of the school will only get you started by opening a lot of interview offers for you. In addition, career services at reputable universities are generally very well established.

Thanks so much! Your post really helped me solidify the belief that I shouldn't spend time on the CS GRE!

I honestly feel that you haven't looked into their websites and faculty profiles before asking this question.

Getting admitted to the Master's of Computer and Information Technology (MCIT) program at University of Pennsylvania would be the BEST case scenario for you. (http://www.cis.upenn.edu/grad/mcit/index.shtml) It's a Master's program for those who have undergraduate degrees that are NOT in Computer Science or a related area. The Ivy League name brand is more than enough to get your foot in the door of an interview. Plus, they seem to have an excellent career service office. But it is up to YOU to demonstrate that you possess the core competencies that a technology person is expected to have.

Thanks guys! I can see that the CS GRE wouldn't be a smart investment for a person in my situation. I don't come from a "top" university, but it's still a school that would be known among all adcoms.

Hey guys, I've read from various forum posts about how schools view GRE CS Subject Test scores. The general consensus was that the test score isn't all that important. But I'd like to ask a question about a trend in recent applicants: That students just not take the test at all (i.e. on Yale's CS admissions page, it says "almost no one took it"). What are your thoughts about this? Would it be worth it for an undergraduate student at a top 50 CS department (with absolutely no grades below B+ in CS) to take the test? There are certain topics on the test that I haven't learned about, and I'm torn between investing time on studying for the stupid test or else just using that time for research. Thanks!

I think 30 school is insane too... I'm probably gonna apply to 15~16 programs - five in super reaches, five semi-reaches, and four targets, and one safety that I'd be willing to attend.

Wow guys, thanks for all of the helpful responses. I'm an international student currently pursuing a CS undergraduate degree in a 50-75 ranked U.S. institution; my knowledge of the English language is sufficient for passing me up as a native here... but I never got to the point of getting permanent residence or citizenship... really sucks. Now, let me do the Internet a huge favor by summing things up here (A little verbose, but I think specificity is key when trying to SEO on a forum): Applying to more than fifteen graduate school departments is not a bad decision. What is most important is that each and every one of the schools that a student applies to is a school that the student is seriously willing to attend if admitted. Applying to many schools, if time and money is not too big of a concern, can only help a person's chances at gaining admission to a desirable PhD program. In addition, as long as a person is able to articulate a good reason to his/her recommenders, he/she should not have to worry about being a "prestige wh0re" for wanting to apply to so many programs. +Those who seem to have already gone through the admissions process seem to emphasize the importance of taking one's time in preparing a Statement of Purpose. +My knee-jerk reaction: It is best to make sure that one makes it as convenient as possible for recommendation writers to send in their LORs. Any additional comments and advise (or corrections to this summarization) would be greatly appreciated ! Cheers!

Thanks for the reply! I really think you understood my situation. Could you tell me what you said ti explain the number of applications that you decided to send out? One reason why I just CANNOT imagine myself going to a low-ranked school is because I'll be taking the PhD that I earn back to my Home Country. The hiring process for academic positions are very different - despite my father being an academic, it may be difficult for him to push things forward for me if my degree is coming from an unknown institution. But there's another reason: My research interests are broad and inter-related enough to a point where I can find a good "fit" to each of these departments that I've selected (Not interested in top 5 nor Harvard, however). Above all else, it seems like some of the most cutting edge research being conducted in the U.S. occurs at these top 30 institutions; at least the research areas that these schools have research centers and groups in. P.S. Is it true that the CS GRE isn't important as long as your scores aren't terrible?

I want to get admitted to the best program possible (I have a list of top 30 schools that all have research areas/centers in my area of interest). Phd admissions is unpredictable, but most online sources indicate six or seven as the appropriate number of grad school applications. If Money and Time is NOT an issue, then what are the potential drawbacks of applying to 15 CS programs? My view: -I'm thinking one drawback might be that it could cause a slight inconvenience to a recommender. -It might make me look like a prestige hungry person who is only applying to top 30 programs with no safeties.

That makes a lot of sense to me:D One of the reasons why I'll be gunning for a school with the latter option is because, at the CS department that I attend, there is only one professor who conducts research on NLP. The rest of the Comp Ling and NLP people reside in the Linguistics department. It's so frustrating, because my research interests are not exactly in line with his; great guy, though. Regardless, I take it that it's pretty common for a person to apply to a CS department with the intentions of working with just ONE of the faculty members at that department. Thanks guys.

Thanks for all of your input guys! It really helped and shed some light on my situation. Another question: When it comes to selecting departments I know that you should take a look at the faculty research profiles. If a school only has one or two professors conducting research on your field of interest, is it unwise to attend that school? Or is it still feasible to apply to that school with the intentions of working only with that faculty member (Let's assume there are at least two, since counting on just one professor is risky = sabbatical)? I have a feeling I should only be applying to schools that have an established "research center" or "group" in my field of interest. Am I correct? Thanks!