anon1

3.66 GPA overall 3.94 CS GPA 163 quant, 162 verbal, 5 writing (planning to retake for higher quant score) Internships at Harvard, MIT, NASA Nontraditional student with a previous degree, before recent CS and Math double major. I'm in a 2nd (?) tier school now, but would prefer to attend: Harvard, Caltech, Berkeley, UCLA Do I have a shot? At Master's? At Phd? Or am I wasting my time and money applying...

You're right At least I can leave after the Master's if I hate it... right?

In addition, my being here will have caused my fiance to quit his good job and find another one here, which just doesn't make any sense given that I don't even want to be here. I just worry that being here with a poor attitude will do more harm than not going at all this year. (Though I don't know how my apps will go next year if I don't have anything on my resume for this year... but I could probably get some kind of work before December.)

I'm not OK with not being a winner, symmetry And comp12, I'm seriously not a troll... depressed? crazy? maybe. but honest, and not a troll. Personally, I think I *could* get into a top ten school, with revised application package. If I could do whatever I wanted I would take the year off and reapply. The adviser's research here is not what I thought it was and I really am not excited about working on it Finally the importance of choosing a research fit is coming into very very very clear focus. However, I am getting pressure from my family, friends, and fiance to try out this school for a month and see if I still feel the same way (imo a horrible idea-- I am almost certain I will feel the same way then if not worse about being here, but if I leave then I will be burning bridges with this school and will have a transcript with W's on it, will incur costs for housing, possibly will owe the university money, will not have a good story for my future apps, etc. etc. etc.) Does this make sense to anyone else? Another option is to apply to other places while I'm here, but I get the feeling grad schools don't usually like to take 'transfer' students... I don't know. A final option is to stay but consider trying to work with another adviser if I continue to feel this way about my research area...

TheFez -- the thing is that I got a letter of apology from the test writers, saying that I was the first one to find it and report it. I agree that talking about teaching the classes undermines my credibility I've known that since I sent out my applications... too sad to leave out my only credible work experience for 2 years... in fact, I even taught a couple (not many) GRE classes too. And that was also on my resume and in the essay. I am surprised the schools that let me in did. I really was working against myself with that application. The essay itself was terrible (even my own parents thought it was bad) and one of the recs was bad. THIS is all why I wonder whether I shouldn't try again? Retake the GRE, start from scratch on the essay, and swap out a recommender.

ssk2-- Thanks for asking. I'm curious too... The professors at my undergrad institution said that Master's programs are much easier to get into than PhD programs. I would be interested in doing a Master's program, but probably only with funding...

wine in coffee cups-- thanks for the e-book. I'll check it out. and thanks for the job suggestion. I will think about that. Also, you do make a good point about the students I mentioned at UCSD. Sounds like realistically, I don't have a chance at those schools. Which is fine, I just wanted to gauge.

Ponylevel-- Thank you again. If I have no chance at those 4 schools it sounds like it is probably not worth my time to reapply... Appreciate the help:)

Comp12-- you don't have to read my posts:) just sayin...

comp12 -- they all thought I was Chinese, or at least of Chinese descent, (another thread), I guess I am so weirdly overachieving and name-brand obsessed that people could only rationalize my thought-process by assuming that I am a foreigner...

Another way to phrase my initial question: what do I have to lose by reapplying? Do I risk not even getting into a top 14 school, or am I pretty sure to at least do this well again? (Because I also have other personal reasons for not wanting to attend this year.)

CA schools are on the quarter system. I don't start til Sept. 24th. While some of what I've said is embarrassing, and in some ways I wish you all thought I didn't exist, or was from another country (like some people argued on another forum), I have been completely honest in all of my posts and am in fact an American (perhaps an ungrateful, privileged one, but an American nonetheless).

Thanks for the candid assessment ponylevel. The schools I consider worth my effort to apply again are: Berkeley, Stanford, MIT, Harvard (all ranked higher in algorithms/theory than UCSD and all in locations I like >= San Diego). Do you think I have a shot at those schools, specifically? I definitely see your point about finding the mistake on the test. My essay was filled with stupid minute details that all probably made it sound like I was trying way way wayyy to hard. And I know my GRE quant score sucks. I would retake it (now you only have to send your best score-- not all of your scores) and I'm confident that with studying I would ace it. So, the application for this year would be better than my application last year (btw my GPA when I applied last year was something like 3.45-- now it's 3.66 and I have an entire extra year of almost perfect grades) in that 1. I have a better GPA, 2. I have a much better personal statement, 3. I have another internship & some work experience, 4. I will have a much better GRE score, 5. I have better recommendations (I believe only 2/4 were great recommendations), 6. I plan to study for and take the CS GRE. I still lack specifically CS-related research, unless I can find some way to accomplish that during my year off (seems unlikely). And am stuck with my 3.66 GPA. I admit though-- there are many smarter and more accomplished students in UCSD's PhD program in CS than me: people who have had multiple Google internships, who have graduated with 3.7 & 3.8 from Berkeley, who did actual CS research!, who were top contestants in programming competitions, who were top contestants in academic Olympiads, someone who was the 2nd best in all of Turkey in math, etc. etc............. So I likely wouldn't be giving up more than any of those people did (getting into a better school), by choosing to go to UCSD.

Am I being greedy to apply again this year, or is a top 14 school (UCSD) the best I can do? They have great professors in theory/algorithms, which is my top interest, as well as great professors in a number of other interesting areas: security, HPC, etc. But, I have this gnawing feeling that I could have done better. Some of my professors even told me this. It's making it hard to feel excited about going to grad school this year Should I take a year off and reapply, or do I not have a chance at a top school / or will risk losing something great? Here are my stats: GPA: 3.66, double major (at well regarded school) in CS and math CS GPA: 3.94 GPA last two years: 3.89 (did degree program in 3 years since I have a previous liberal arts degree) GRE(assumed--need to retake... last year had 166 verbal, 160 quant, 5.5 writing): 166 verbal, 166-170 quant, 5.5 writing Have previous degree from liberal arts college in art Have written ACT math questions for a textbook in all major bookstores Taught SAT classes in Thailand and in US Found mistake in national standardized test in high school Did internships at Harvard, MIT, NASA (all were in astro/aero, but I did CS work) (also admitted to internships at Princeton, Stanford, Caltech, Harvard--in CS) Published papers in philosophy, biology, physics, (might get an aerospace engineering pub by the fall) Run marathons Have taken 1 graduate level CS class in algorithms, have taken 3 graduate level math classes (linear/nonlinear optimization, numerical mathematics) (As in all grad classes) Had all A's in CS classes, 2 A+s, and one B+ During my year off (if I don't go to grad school this year) I would continue an internship I worked on last summer

I've heard UCSD has a great program. Also, check this out: http://academic.research.microsoft.com/RankList?entitytype=7&topdomainid=2&subdomainid=2&last=5&continentid=2&orderby=6

Okay, so my question is: am I being greedy to want to try again next year, or should I just be happy that I got into a top 15 school?

Actually, the UCSD prof who does HPC is highly interdisciplinary; he works with scientists at UCSD and at national labs, under large grants. His students write software packages and do parallelization to support scientific research. Since he gets large grants I would get a few thousand more per year above the regular stipend and would only TA for 1 quarter. At UCLA I would TA for every semester after the first, if I stay with the same adviser. His work is too theoretical to garner government grants and it doesn't seem to be interdisciplinary. 2 of my rec letters were solid, but 2 were so-so. I have another person I could ask (I think) so that might help my chances. I have an internship at NASA right now, but after that I don't know what I would do. Do you think taking time off would look bad? Maybe I will try e-mailing some of the professors I am most interested in working with to see if they think I would have a shot at getting in... I've looked at jobs of recent grads and it seems that the HPC person's students go for software engineering jobs at high profile companies, or else are working at national labs, while the AI professor's students are more inclined to stay in academia, or do research: one at NASA, though some do software engineering too. Although the AI prof's website listed lots of people from the 90s, so it may be that the HPC person has had more recent grads or else gets them through the program faster... I think UCSD's higher concentration of theory faculty makes UCSD have the edge for alternative advisers. As far as switching goes, I think either would let me. Anyway, thanks again for your thoughtful advice, I appreciate it!

Azezel & Anacron-- the professor who wants to work with me at UCSD does HPC. He was super nice, but idk that I def. want to do HPC. I've never even taken one class in it, and I'm more interested in theory, which seems closer to AI. I was a bit intimidated on both my school visits, so the fact that this prof was nice and encouraging, and kept saying that he really wanted me to go to UCSD made me like him more, though idk if this is a good way to choose between schools or not (since after I get there I may feel comfortable and realize I want to do something else). The UCLA prof does theoretical/game-based/problem-solving AI stuff. I've also never taken an AI class though. The AI prof was more stern, not as nice, and one of his students said that he was unhelpful as an adviser--- though his other student said he was the most amazing prof ever, and another random student was working his tail off in this professor's class just so he could have a shot at being in his research group. (he also got amazing reviews on rate my professor, though i know this isn't necessarily a good way to judge a research adviser) Though, it sounds like I can change advisers when I get there, so maybe I should be looking at the faculty as a whole, instead of the two profs who will be my initial advisers.... I know I'm interested in theory, and UCSD has a better theory program, but if I go to UCLA I'll be essentially starting out with a theory person... it's hard. Also, within CS do you think UCSD is recognized as a better school than UCLA? or visa versa? US News has the two tied at #14, QS world CS rankings have UCLA at #12 and UCSD at #33, though UCSD does way better (even better than CMU and other top schools) in the 'citations' category, and the National Research Council Rankings put UCSD ahead in research, student outcomes, and diversity, but UCLA ahead in two vague categories that are something like "what scholars deem a good school should have".... UCLA seems like it would give me the overall prestige factor, right? But I get the impression that UCSD is better for CS and might give me a better overall CS education.... Is one location (La Jolla/San Diego VS Westwood/Santa Monica/LA) better in your mind...? A final option is to reapply again this year, because I am so torn, and because I really did not do the best job at 1.pinpointing what it is I want to study, and 2. searching for faculty members who are doing that kind of research... I put together an application that was not my best (after doing internships at Harvard, MIT, and now NASA), so I also wonder if I might have a shot at a higher ranked program (I know this is superficial, but it's that what-if that bothers me). Anyway, thanks again for your thoughts.

Even if I have an adviser at each school in each field who wants to work with me... ? Just don't know how easy it is to change advisers, or how expected. Also, if you don't mine my asking, if you had to choose between UCLA and UCSD, which would you pick...?

I think I will definitely attend this year, but possibly apply again to my top 4 or so school choices as well (so long as my recommenders are willing to recommend me while I'm enrolled in a program...). Another factor in my decision: at UCLA I have 2yrs funding VS UCSD 1yr.... UCLA: TA for almost entire time UCSD: TA for only one quarter (if I get funding beyond 1st year & continue on with my potential adviser there) I continually find myself gravitating toward the theoretical side of CS, and the prof at UCLA does theoretical work. Though UCSD overall seems to have a better department, and overall they are ranked higher in the theory subfield. I know people have said that location shouldn't be a deciding factor, but I have to take my fiance into consideration, who is moving with me and has to find a job. I know SD has lots of government/defense jobs, but Santa Monica/LA seems to have lots of options too: Google, SpaceX, (JPL), etc. Quality of life in the location is also important to me (i.e. La Jolla vs Westwood area)....

I also-- despite my prestige chasing-- really truly do want to add to peoples' knowledge of the world. I want to uncover new science.

wine in coffee cups, wow. that is an amazing analysis. one of the people I respect and admire most is a close relative of mine who is an executive at GS and went to HBS. If I could have her life, I probably would. The only issue is that she's already made it so far... I might always feel like a failure in comparison. But it's something to think about. it's crazy that you made that leap. thanks for sharing your thoughts.

And if I can't do that, I'll settle for solving problems.

I want to add to humanity's knowledge of the world.

ghanada-- cool that you went to UCLA:) victor.s.andrei-- my parents tried to tell me I had a horrible SOP, I should have listened You know, I found that I got into the schools whose essays I didn't 'try' to make good.... I just wrote simply and honestly. I should have done that for all of the essays... In any case, I guess UCLA's name recognition might satisfy my craving for that. I did have a friend who got into Berkeley and CMU, but was denied by Stanford and Georgia Tech. She had a 3.9 GPA and triple majored in classics, CS, and math! Plus did a bunch of other cool stuff.... so if she didn't even get in... Does make me wonder if I might have a chance at getting into one if I throw my application out to all of the schools, since I got into so many great internships, but, the consensus seems to be: go now... Plus if I go to UCLA, the prof I'd be working with has had students such as: Berkeley alum with a 3.9 GPA! (Have a friend in my current internship with 3.1 GPA at Berkeley and he says the ave. CS GPA there is 2.7; that it's super super hard.)