JMO
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Posts posted by JMO
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People shouldn't take Revolution too seriously, or they simply are taking themselves too seriously.
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Why is this getting derailed. I am looking for some valid answers, I mean he already defied all odds by getting into pretty much every school he applied to. Let alone full funding, I wonder how much further he can push it. I hope someone on here gets to meet him, he is really funny guy, and just goes around without a care in the world, doing whatever he wants. I remember him telling about his ambitions and giving me his application package to look over and I was thinking to myself...SAIS...no way dude. I told him to put more emphasis on SIS and Elliot since that is more logical, even University of Maryland (he wants to stay in DC). I don't know what his funding was for SIPA, but he made it seem like little, I think around 10K a year or so.
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Yeah, hearing his background I think he should go to SIS as well. It seems schools really value your background if it's "exotic" so they can use that when promoting their program.
Ha, are his stats that bad. I do wonder what he got in his GRE.
Schools are strange in how they give out money. Like why did Elliot give you 15K and SAIS 20K, considering one is clearly better than the other. You continue to see that in his board too, like someone gets a full ride to SAIS but doesn't get anything from SIS or Gtown, and you are thinking...what is going on.
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To be honest, I think my friend should take his. I am surprised he even got money and/or got in to most of these programs. HIs undergrad GPA was a 3.0 in Politics, then got a Msc in Finance and had a 2.9 GPA. He is Iraqi though and grew in Baghdad until 2002, when him and his family relocated to Beirut. Perhaps his colorful background is what got him in. DOn't know his GRE scores, but I think he did well. He speaks a bunch of languages, but had no experience in IR, worked in Finance till now (he is 29).
Sometimes I wonder how they hand out money, but I was pretty happy for him and think he should go ahead and accept SIS. Good program for DC, and he doesn't have to spend any money.
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Some people (myself included obviously) would turn down a high paying job to go to an elite b-school for various reasons. I've discussed some of them here. I mean i know people at hbs/stanford/wharton who were working in private equity and making $300K+ including bonus at age 26-27 but LEFT those jobs to go back to school. From a purely economic sense it may not seem prudent since their opportunity cost is enormous. But they believe that the long-term benefits of going to those schools will outweigh whatever amount they lost during the 2-year time period. Moreover, there are also the social and personal benefits that simply cannot be ignored. Just one example: i was at an alumni event and met a guy who went to one of those top 3 b-schools. He worked at a major private equity firm in boston before school and he talked about how much he enjoyed b-school and how he met his fiancee there. When these alums talk about their mba experience, you can clearly tell that it was the best time of their lives and it's something that you can't simply quantify. I for one would turn down a $500K/year job easily for admission to HBS and would take out a $200K loan with a smile on my face.
Smart man...turn down 500K job, to take out loans, then go to b-school, to accept job paying 160K. The Logic of a Snob
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I know LSAT is for lawyers. That's why I said take it and go to law school.
My point wasn't necessarily go to law school - it was that taking out that much in loans for a professional degree which will not give you a sufficient income to pay it is unwise and economically a terrible idea. At least with law school he could potentially make "big money". He will never do that with an MPA, so why the hell would you take out that debt?
Not taking out debt that you won't be able to pay back in a viable fashion is logic 101.
He is getting an MA, and to a certain extent I agree with you, but I do know people that got out of SAIS making 80 to 90K, which is quite good if you are 100K in debt. It is a risk, but the fact is that he is more likely to get a well paying consulting gig out of SAIS than SIS, but it is not guaranteed and if he ends up struggling then it will be quite problematic. OVerall, I would also advise people to go for the money, but prestige is the reason why we apply to all these ritzy schools.
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IMO, if you're going to take that much debt out, wait a year, study for the LSATs, and go to law school.
SIS or bust.
LSAT is for lawyers. HE doesn't want to become a lawyer, and let's be serious, with how saturated the legal economy is and the difficulty of getting into a top 10 school, I think this is an illogical post.
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Oh man, that is even a tougher situation than my buddy. It's always a tough one, when you have to leave your significant other for a year. The biggest worry for him is giving up on the reputation of SAIS to attend SIS. I know he wants DC, just because location is half the placement battle and he is originally from Bowie. I really would not want to be stuck in both your shoes, it's always a tough question and then if something goes wrong in the future, you will ask yourself...what if.
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A friend of mine recently applied to all three, (I think Elliot as well). He got into SIS, full scholarship etc, but did not get any funding from SAIS and minimal from SIPA.
I don't know how to advise him, but when do you think that taking the money is worth it. In either program he is going to be well over 100K in debt, considering living expenses in NYC and DC. He is currently leaning towards SIS, but the reputation is lacking compared to SAIS and SIPA.
Just wondering what the general consensus is, money or the reputation. I told him that in this economy, especially seeing other MA students struggle to get jobs even after graduating from SAIS and Gtown, he may want to go for the money.
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Sorry, I got confused (it's late). I didn't see the dual MIA/MBA part. I trust you're at SIPA and know what you're talking about. It'd be interesting to know whether the MSFS includes dual-degree students in their private sector placements as well since they don't specify anything about it.
By the way, not to derail the SAIS thread, but there don't seem to be nearly as many dual JD/MIA students at SIPA. What has been your experience? It's something I've considered trying for in my first year if I go.
What do you mean by trying for. I think you have to get into the law school and for that you need to take the LSAT. Getting into Columbia Law is way more competitive than getting into SIPA. MBA/MIA is more logical as, law is already three years and you can't really use your MIA once you graduate law school. For an MBA, the MIA can teach you important skills, especially certain economics courses taught at SIPA as well was learning about emerging markets and risk analysis. Also, if you want to do dual MBA/MIA, you also will have to get into the MBA prgram, which, again, is more competitive than SIPA.
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I don't think this is true. The banking positions they report are mostly analysts. Those are not positions for attorneys, much less Columbia Law graduates, much less dual-degree Columbia Law graduates. There's only one attorney position listed in their MPA statistics, and that person may have already had a law degree. There are zero listed for the MIA.
No matter what you think about SIPA, no Columbia Law graduate is going to become an analyst at Morgan Stanley or even Goldman. Entry-level paralegal positions are "analyst" positions at banks.
I was talking about the dual MBA/MIA recipients, for which there are quite a few. I was just using the attorney as an example that they don't distinguish between just MIA recipients and the ones that received dual degrees. I also like to add that I go to SIPA, and am not making this up.
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Yeah, it can be manipulative. I am actually at SIPA, and not so many end up doing banking and finance, some go into consulting and what you really learn about are emerging markets, but overall you are not going to end up working for Morgan Stanley. Although some students do end up getting cushy finance jobs, they usually had a similar job previously and were not teaching english in south korea. Something to think about. Overall it's a great program and it's such a diverse class as well. You will spend the next 20 years paying back the debt you incur, but it is well worth it.
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I posted this a few pages back with more detail, but keep in mind:
"The above figures do not include the additional salary benefits of SAIS graduates employed in the multilateral sector where income is often tax-free. Nor does it include signing bonuses or end-of-year bonuses which can be a significant part of private sector salaries."
The only MA program I found that publishes specific data on actual employers is SIPA.
MPA: http://sipa.columbia.edu/resources_services/career_services/documents/MPAEmploymentOverview.pdf <-- not sure why this link isn't working. Go here instead: http://sipa.columbia.edu/resources_services/career_services/employment_statistics.html
MIA: http://sipa.columbia.edu/resources_services/career_services/documents/MIAEmploymentOverview.pdf
These detailed reports might shed some light on firms you may be interested in that recruit from top IR programs.
Unfortunately, Revolution, if you spoke to someone in their Career Services department I imagine they're all just super busy and stressed. Not a good reason for not answering your very reasonable questions, but, hey benefit of the doubt. I'm sure you have already looked at SAIS + linkedin profiles. That's probably the best way to get more information since your background is in a niche field of finance.
While they do publish pretty detailed statistics, they do not distinguish between the recipient of just the MIA or the Dual MIA/MBA or MIA/JD degree. Which is why you see so much Finance and Banking, you can even see some people employed as attorneys.
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I Am wondering how people from these schools, in addition to GWU or SIS have some kind of on-campus interviews.
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Hello everyone,
I'm new here and I'm considering applying for graduate school this fall or next spring. I've taken a look at a few IR programs, but I'm really not sure what my chances are for any of them. I'm currently leaning towards an MA in International Affairs/Politics. I graduated in 2009 with a double major in political science and French. As far as relevant work experience goes I think could only truly count on my time as a visa officer at the French Consulate in Boston back in the summer of 2010, so my main concern is that I may not have enough work experience. Given my profile, what types of programs would I be competitive for and what would I need to do to improve my chances at more highly regarded institutions?
Undergraduate institution: Large public school
Undergraduate GPA: 3.49
Undergraduate Majors: Political Science, French
Study Abroad: semester in France
GRE Quantitative Score: 520 (31%)
GRE Verbal Score: 670 (95%)
GRE AW Score: 4.0 (41%)
Took the GRE once in 2009. Didn't do much studying beyond taking one or two practice tests (as you can probably tell).
Age: 25
Years Out of Undergrad (if applicable): 3
Years of Work Experience:
Describe Relevant Work Experience: As I mentioned above I worked during the summer of 2010 as a visa officer at the Consulate General of France in Boston, but that's probably the only relevant experience I can think of. Other than that I worked at Lowe's for a year and a half before the French Consulate and have been working as a sales consultant for a currency exchange company since March 2011.
Languages: Spanish [native], French [advanced/almost native level]
Quant: Precalculus in UG (didn't realize how useful calculus would be now), micro and macroeconomics. Took AP Stats way back in high school (so I'm familiar with it) but don't have college credit since I didn't take the exam.
Strength of SOP: It seems that my lack of relevant work experience will make things difficult for me here.
Strength of LOR: Pretty much any of my French professors would be very good; I'd have a tougher time with my poli sci professors since it's been a few years and I haven't really kept in touch. My current boss would likely be good as well.
That's everything for me. I'm not too confident in my competitiveness despite having a recent MA grad friend urging me to consider getting my master's. He recommended I try applying somewhere in DC due to the networking possibilities there but I'm certainly open to other places (Boston, NYC, etc.).
So what are my chances? Should I try applying as I am or do some other things to improve my “profile” first?
Thanks in advance.
You should redo the GRE and really study for it, this is something you can control. As for the work opportunities, well its easier said than done to get more IR experience. The real question is, are you living independently and is your job your only source of income, cause if it is, then its hard to quit that and go for an internship, however if you can, do it. Overall, you have a strong shot to get into the programs in DC if you improve your GRE. You have strong language skills, which is always an asset, any chance you have another passport so you could do a year abroad somewhere (again, easier said than done).
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From what the OP has said, it sounds like their concern isn't just the admissions process being weighted towards multi-linguals; it's also that the programs don't allocate time for language. So, instead of taking 3 academic courses and one language, he'd be taking 4 academic courses and trying to fit in a language into whatever free schedule space he has. If the schools don't allow more than a minimal number of credits be used for language, you may have to pay extra or audit them and not receive a grade. The language courses may even need to be taken through the Boston Consortium, apparently--which would mean traveling to another campus and complicating scheduling/expense even further.
From what the OP has said, it sounds like their concern isn't just the admissions process being weighted towards multi-linguals; it's also that the programs don't allocate time for language. So, instead of taking 3 academic courses and one language, he'd be taking 4 academic courses and trying to fit in a language into whatever free schedule space he has. If the schools don't allow more than a minimal number of credits be used for language, you may have to pay extra or audit them and not receive a grade. The language courses may even need to be taken through the Boston Consortium, apparently--which would mean traveling to another campus and complicating scheduling/expense even further.
Depending on what language he wants to learn, there are plenty of classes that can be taken in Boston to learn pretty much any desired language he wants to learn. It's true he would have to spend extra 2K a year to learn a language, it would be a drop in the bucket compared to the tuition he is already spending. I guess in any case, you can cross the bridge when you get to it.
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In the interest of not making you search for the references that I am referring to. I realize now that I'm actually referring to a blurb from the MPA/ID program and I don't find the same verbage on the MPP site:
Fletcher:
Although The Fletcher School values highly the role of foreign language learning in the international affairs arena, students should understand that there is, unfortunately, little time within The Fletcher School curriculum for students to acquire and/or master a new foreign language. For that reason, we strongly encourage students who are serious about learning a new language to pursue intensive study prior to matriculation and then take advantage of opportunities provided by our cross-registration agreement with Tufts and Harvard to build on their existing foreign language proficiency.
HKS:
We encourage all prospective applicants who lack proficiency in a second language to pursue language study before applying to the Kennedy School. Language coursework does not count towards the number of credits MPA/ID students need to graduate. The few students who do study a foreign language during their time at the Kennedy School do so in addition to their required core courses and electives.
But isn't it worth an application. You may not get in, but at least you tried, and if you do, then its a great surprise. A good friend of mine here at the program got rejected from HKS and if you look at his credentials he was a great candidate, high GPA from an Ivy, good GRE scores, worked in the UN for 3 years and spoke 3 languages one with academic fluency and still got rejected. I know this might look discouraging to you, that a person like that could get rejected, but who knows why. The bottom line is that you should at least give it a shot, you have invested heavily in yourself and your studies and you owe it to yourself to try to get into the best school possible (some may disagree with that statement, but the Harvard name is extremely powerful especially in this dire economy). Give it a shot, you got nothing to lose.
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Ignore my last comment, this thread has lost its purpose and I am sick of this back and forth.
jc99, good luck with whatever you decide to do
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Awww bless. Your sensitivities are showing through sport.
As to the OP, if you really want to go into IR, build an alternate transcript in IR / quant classes (it may go without saying but you need A's), study hard for the GRE and if you are capable knock it out of the park. This should open up second tier programs like SIS and possibly outlier "1.5" programs like GW.
Awww bless. Your sensitivities are showing through sport.
As to the OP, if you really want to go into IR, build an alternate transcript in IR / quant classes (it may go without saying but you need A's), study hard for the GRE and if you are capable knock it out of the park. This should open up second tier programs like SIS and possibly outlier "1.5" programs like GW.
The expert admissions officer strikes again. So how do you know all this detail about the university admissions process? I am just curious
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You come off terribly sensitive and perhaps MYRNIST criticism hit a little close to home. MYRNIST while a bit abrupt, was on point. No IR experience, middle-tier university, and poor grades does not equal a top 5 IR school. This may be harsh, but it is spot on.
No one is being sensitive here. I am trying to be practical because I have met people with international backgrounds like his who were not academic aces, but their experiences and lives abroad are well valued by these schools because they bring in a different point of view and s/he shot it down like she knew the admissions process. Why do you think these schools love to publish where their students come from and how "international" they are, it is effectively the essence of the program. Here at SIPA, it is really interesting to sit in a room with an Israeli and an Egyptian and hearing them talk about their respective foreign policies, and if a school finds a decent applicant from that country, they may just admit him/her (charge them the max, I might add) because not only does it boost their stats, but it is insightful for other US students to hear them speak, at least it is for me and many of my US colleagues.
And, It's not like he didn't seem to know that his chances were not great, or I bet he wouldn't be gauging someone else's reaction. I just don't like when people come in here and act like they are gods gift to this forum and they know all the ins and outs of the process. It is fine to tell an individual to improve on their IR experience and and perhaps take a couple of classes and that may improve their chances, but to just say it so abruptly is spiteful. I don't know who you are, but it sounds like you know the ins and outs of the admissions process and could predict with an almost certainty where someone will get accepted.
And btw why would his/her criticism hit close to home, I don't know what that even means, could you please explain...troll. Looking at your posts, you seem to be Myrnist's number 1 fan, pathetic.
- JAubrey, method and gradytripp
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Thank you everyone who responded and for your thoughtful insights and comments!
I got into a school! I'm so happy because I thought with my horrible gpa I didn't have a shot anywhere. I got into a regional U.S. school where the MA program is in Europe, so I get the best of both worlds! They took my essay, resume, letters of recommendations, and work experience into consideration. What really got me into this school was the fact that while I was working abroad, I did a language study program at the university there and did well. Those grades are what got me into this school.
I look at this as a second chance of life and am incredibly grateful for this opportunity.
For the cynics- part of my poor gpa was because of taking Economics and not having the essential tools, and another part was the fact that I got run over by a car my sophomore year and some of my professors refused to give me a break (it was in the middle of the quarter), even though I was hospitalized and on meds/therapy for a month. They also took this into consideration, also I had an upward gpa trend my senior year.
Yes, it was 7 years ago. I am so excited that I also have an opportunity! This is what America is about!!
You got run over by a car? The thing about economics and not having a tool is probably a bad point to argue, but getting run over by a car is a pretty bad. where did you get into if you don't mind us finding out, there are a lot of people in these forums that could benefits from you disclosing the name of the institution.
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I graduated last year with a 2.8 GPA. I've recently taken the GRE in preparation for applying to graduate schools. There was an issue, however, that extended my time as an undergrad, as explained below.
History: I went to a community college and did well, then transferred to a 4 year state school. I changed majors about a year in at said state school. This was probably around 2006.
Extended undegrad explanation: I cut my course load down a bit, so I could have graduated in Fall of 2009. There were two credits, however (single credit - portfolio review and senior thesis) that I needed in order to graduate. Due to small class sizes I was shut out of registration and had to wait a year for the credits to be offered again. During this time I agreed to work with my advisor to develop and complete my senior thesis.
Communication with said advisor became worse over this time period. I don't want to start whining, but it began taking this person a month + to respond to my email(s) with excuses as to why they hadn't found time to look over my draft. Though I wasn't an official student in the interim - and can thus understand not being moderate on the priority list - the lack of feedback (in conjunction careless excuses) was at times frustrating.
Months had gone by after I sent a draft in for review that I received a response; my advisor had sent a "surprise! you're graduating!" letter (I can only gather the thesis draft was too horrible to acknowledge as they made no mention of it). He/she had spoken to the head of the department, who granted a substitution of past credits for the two credits I had been waiting about a year to take. Though I was glad to hear this, I was also disappointed that 1) I had spent this time hashing out a (likely unread) thesis while waiting to take courses I didn't end up needing and 2) I was leaving college without having a portfolio to review or a senior thesis (which I thought was supposed to be the culmination of the previous years of study).
As stated above, I received my degree last year with a 2.8 GPA. Since then I have taken the GRE and have been considering graduate school. My major is all but useless without an MA (research + art). I've been hesitant to even apply as my GPA isn't impressive, I don't have professional experience that ties in with my major, and the length of time it took to receive this degree is atrocious.
I'm curious how valid worrying about this undergrad time length is when it comes to admissions. I would also be interested in listening to any options one might have to a next step, as I have been feeling progressively stuck.
Thanks for letting me vent some frustration.
You need some experience, of course in this economy that is easier said than done, you also want to be able to eat. Top schools for your major are generally very small and even with a graduate degree sometime you still end up on the streets. Your best bet may be to get some experience and apply to alright graduate programs, then do well and apply for a phd or another master at a better school...that is if you have an unlimited supply of money, which I assume you don't. I am sorry to say that a 2.8 GPA with no kind of great story or extracurricular activities is a hard sell anywhere.
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Program Applied To : M.P.A.
Schools Applying To: SAIS (American Foreign Policy); WWS (Field I); GWU Elliott (ITIP); American SIS (IER)
Schools Admitted To:
Schools Rejected From:
Still Waiting:
Attending:
Undergraduate institution: State U in the Big 10
Undergraduate GPA: 3.9
Undergraduate Major: Applied Economics
GRE Quantitative Score: 740 (estimated 158 on the new GRE, 79%)
GRE Verbal Score: 680 (estimated 165 on the new GRE, 96%)
GRE AW Score: 5.5 (96%)
Years Out of Undergrad (if applicable): 1, but see below, I was a non-traditional undergrad
Years of Work Experience: 6, depending on how you count it. Here I'm counting five years of the Navy and the one year of the Peace Corps that I will have under my belt when applications are turned in. By the time I matriculate I'll have two years of the Peace Corps. Also, two years as a Research and Teaching Assistant and one year of AmeriCorps may be of some interest to some schools.
Describe Relevant Work Experience: See above. 5 years in the Navy, 1 year (will be 2 by matriculation time) in the Peace Corps. Also, 1 year of AmeriCorps, which will probably be interesting to WWS (strong public service focus) but not the others. Experience as a Teaching and Research Assistant may be of interest to some, particularly if TA/RA opportunities are available.
Languages: Acholi (Luo), the regional language of Northern Uganda, Ugandan Sign Language (I work for an organization that is attached to a school for the deaf), and Spanish (severely atrophied). I will have to brush up quite a bit on my Spanish at any school except WWS in order to test out.
Quant: Econometrics, Calc, Math-based Stats. I'm not a math magician by any stretch of the imagination, but I did two years as a Research Assistant and I can work in the presence of numbers without panicking.
Strength of SOP: I feel pretty good about them at this point (mid-June) and I still have quite a bit of time to tweak, edit, etc. before applications start to come due. I'll be happy to swap with any/everybody. If my SOP doesn't make sense to a complete stranger, it probably won't make sense to an adcom.
Strength of LOR: Strong references from Naval officers who flew and worked with me, my undergrad adviser is a WWS grad, and I worked as a Research and Teaching Assistant with two different professors as an undergrad, so I feel good about my LORs. No "big" names, but they will come from profs and Navy pilots who know me very well.
I welcome any and all feedback, no matter how harsh!
Go for Harvard, I recently met an individual with a very similar background to yours, also non-traditional student, finished undergrad at 27, he was stationed in Iraq and Afghanistan for a while. I am not sure what his GPA was, but he was surprised to have made it into Harvard and referenced that his grades were less than stellar. You should certainly give it a shot, that is, only if you actually want to go to Harvard, but the name alone is worth applying to, especially with the background you have. Good luck.
Full Ride at GW Elliott vs. Discount at Georgetown MSFS?
in Government Affairs Forum
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A question of prestige. I would go with the full ride, since you're still going to be paying 15K at Georgetown a year, which will then add to the 30K you already have, not considering living expenses in DC, which easily will be around 24K a year...add all that up and you will have around 80K in debt from grad school and 30K from undergrad.