Howto coverup low undergrad GPA

[medivh]

Hi to all gradcafe members,

I have completed my undergradute with 3,18 GPA (CS,EE courses only 3.40, other topics and math grades are low unfortunately ) and now doing my master degree with the hope finish with GPA between 3,7-4,0. I doubt that due to my low undergrad GPA, I will not get an acceptand for Phd from a good university (i.e. Cornell, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, University of Texas at Austin, Georgia Institute of Technology, Pennsylvania State University ...)

My last exam scores were TOEFL IBT 100 (29-27-22-22) and GRE (800-320-3.5).

I am working on some research topics and by the end of the year hope them to be publish or at least submitted.

Will my graduate GPA make admission commitee members think more positive about me or not?

Research, papers, high GRE subject/ GRE general, TOEFL what should I focus on?

Thanks in advance.

[grotesqueidols]

I'm sorry to say that my boyfriend worked in research in industry for 10 years and got a 800/800 GRE score and was still told by one school that they couldn't admit him due to his low undergrad GPA. Granted, that was just one school that did not admit him, he got into others. The point is that one thing is not going to fix a poor undergrad GPA and it is impossible to hide it. You pretty much have to prove that you can do research and a Masters is a very good start: do very well.

One other thing to note is that even if you had a high GPA I (and everyone else) would be telling you to bring up the 320 and the 3.5 in your GRE. Both indicate unsatisfactory English and English writing skills. Departments will be worried that with scores like that you might not be able to communicate with students in a classroom setting or produce high end written academic work in English. In studying to bring your GRE score up, I'd expect your TOFL score would rise as well...you might as well take that again to see if you can do better.

[liszt85]

Hi to all gradcafe members,

I have completed my undergradute with 3,18 GPA (CS,EE courses only 3.40, other topics and math grades are low unfortunately ) and now doing my master degree with the hope finish with GPA between 3,7-4,0. I doubt that due to my low undergrad GPA, I will not get an acceptand for Phd from a good university (i.e. Cornell, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, University of Texas at Austin, Georgia Institute of Technology, Pennsylvania State University ...)

My last exam scores were TOEFL IBT 100 (29-27-22-22) and GRE (800-320-3.5).

I am working on some research topics and by the end of the year hope them to be publish or at least submitted.

Will my graduate GPA make admission commitee members think more positive about me or not?

Research, papers, high GRE subject/ GRE general, TOEFL what should I focus on?

Thanks in advance.

High graduate (MS) GPA + excellent research experience + publications = deadly combo that will remove all focus away from your ug GPA. I'm speaking from experience and from what professors at very highly ranked universities have told me when I asked them the same question. My GPA graph was a rising one. It has a 3.6 on it as well as a 10 on it (on a scale of 10). All the 8's, 9.6's and 10's came towards the end (during the masters phase..mine was a single integrated 5 year long masters program which included undergraduate education as well)..so I finished off on a high and they were convinced that the earlier grades were an artifact of something else (which is true). SO yes, you can get committee members to think positively about your application if you do all of that.

[no2chem]

Hi to all gradcafe members,

I have completed my undergradute with 3,18 GPA (CS,EE courses only 3.40, other topics and math grades are low unfortunately ) and now doing my master degree with the hope finish with GPA between 3,7-4,0. I doubt that due to my low undergrad GPA, I will not get an acceptand for Phd from a good university (i.e. Cornell, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, University of Texas at Austin, Georgia Institute of Technology, Pennsylvania State University ...)

My last exam scores were TOEFL IBT 100 (29-27-22-22) and GRE (800-320-3.5).

I am working on some research topics and by the end of the year hope them to be publish or at least submitted.

Will my graduate GPA make admission commitee members think more positive about me or not?

Research, papers, high GRE subject/ GRE general, TOEFL what should I focus on?

Thanks in advance.

The first thing you probably should do is fix the 320 and 3.5. You need to show that you're capable of writing/reading academic papers, so you should probably work on getting it to about 650 and 5.0. I don't think GRE subject really matters. I'm told its really only used if you have a magically high score or if you don't have a cs/ee degree. ug gpa is something you can't fix, but keep grad gpa high, and definitely publish. here's a tip - your publications don't have to be all academic, if you create one of those original things that ends up on hack-a-day or something, that can bring you towards the top of the pile... (well, i suppose if you apply to theory they will care about this stuff less...) but as the previous poster said, there are obviously some institutions that you will NOT be able to get into because they seem to filter at some ug gpa level...

Edited March 3, 2010 by no2chem

[medivh]

First of all thank you for your replies.

I am aware that my verbal and analytical scores are pretty low compared to vast majority of people on this forum but I really do not get the idea of memorizing those hundereds or even thousands of words just to get high from this exam. I am sure that I can increase my analytical writing score and probably get higher from toefl but for verbal I seriously need some advice.

Altough I am not from a country where English is the native language I am attanding classes in English at the university and I have also been to Poland and Germany as exchange student and never had difficulty to communicate people (especially with native speakers) or understand course material, text books, papers etc. I can easily convince professors that I have enough English for graduate study if I can have a chance to talk to them. But it doesnt seem to be a likely option.

I am starting to think that studying for GRE General instead of GRE Subject can help me more. So any unique, fast rewarding tips, guides for GRE verbal? I have a weak memory but maybe manage to memorize 500-1000 words in 1-2 months so which list/s should I study?

Lastly my dream schools is Gatech. What can you say about their admission criteria? What matters most for them?

[no2chem]

First of all thank you for your replies.

I am aware that my verbal and analytical scores are pretty low compared to vast majority of people on this forum but I really do not get the idea of memorizing those hundereds or even thousands of words just to get high from this exam. I am sure that I can increase my analytical writing score and probably get higher from toefl but for verbal I seriously need some advice.

Altough I am not from a country where English is the native language I am attanding classes in English at the university and I have also been to Poland and Germany as exchange student and never had difficulty to communicate people (especially with native speakers) or understand course material, text books, papers etc. I can easily convince professors that I have enough English for graduate study if I can have a chance to talk to them. But it doesnt seem to be a likely option.

I am starting to think that studying for GRE General instead of GRE Subject can help me more. So any unique, fast rewarding tips, guides for GRE verbal? I have a weak memory but maybe manage to memorize 500-1000 words in 1-2 months so which list/s should I study?

Lastly my dream schools is Gatech. What can you say about their admission criteria? What matters most for them?

The problem is many American depts are wary of international students that don't have a strong command of English, especially one that has problems in other areas. And the only way you'll really be able to convince them is with at least a good GRE score... Your GRE verbal is alarmingly low, while a department might just gloss over it if you are an American student, since you are international they will automatically suspect that you don't speak English well (and yes, even American students that speak English fluently sometimes get low verbal scores!).

As to getting your score up quick, a score of 320 makes me suspect you have problems with the test overall... The GRE verbal doesn't just test vocabulary, although it is a major component, especially with the antonyms section. Before you start memorizing words, pick up a GRE study aid and read the 'how to take the test' section carefully. You probably will be able to increase scores in other areas, such as reading comprehension, without having to do lots of memorization... You just need to know the correct way to approach the test.

Edited March 3, 2010 by no2chem

[grotesqueidols]

I am aware that my verbal and analytical scores are pretty low compared to vast majority of people on this forum but I really do not get the idea of memorizing those hundereds or even thousands of words just to get high from this exam. I am sure that I can increase my analytical writing score and probably get higher from toefl but for verbal I seriously need some advice.

It is lame, but it is how it is. If at all possible you should try to take a GRE prep class. I imagine if you are in Istanbul or Ankara something like that should exist...although it might be quite expensive. If a class really is not available, order a number of GRE Verbal books off of Amazon. Don't just take a pile of practice tests, you need to get to a point where you can deal with unfamiliar words and attempt to figure out what they mean. Memorizing 1000 words only works if they give you those 1000 words.

Also make sure that all of your application material, resume, statement of purpose and everything else has been checked by a native English speaker. Make it spotless grammatically. Don't give them an excuse

The best way to find out what GATech is looking for is to directly contact the person that you wish to work with and find out. This should be done after this admission cycle and should be done politely and carefully. Do ask "what are you looking for in an applicant". Don't ask things like "What is your minimum GRE score/GPA/etc" or "This is my profile, do you think you will admit me." Present yourself as confident and interested in his/her work. Don't be too discouraged if they don't respond.

[medivh]

It is lame, but it is how it is. If at all possible you should try to take a GRE prep class. I imagine if you are in Istanbul or Ankara something like that should exist...although it might be quite expensive. If a class really is not available, order a number of GRE Verbal books off of Amazon. Don't just take a pile of practice tests, you need to get to a point where you can deal with unfamiliar words and attempt to figure out what they mean. Memorizing 1000 words only works if they give you those 1000 words.

Also make sure that all of your application material, resume, statement of purpose and everything else has been checked by a native English speaker. Make it spotless grammatically. Don't give them an excuse

The best way to find out what GATech is looking for is to directly contact the person that you wish to work with and find out. This should be done after this admission cycle and should be done politely and carefully. Do ask "what are you looking for in an applicant". Don't ask things like "What is your minimum GRE score/GPA/etc" or "This is my profile, do you think you will admit me." Present yourself as confident and interested in his/her work. Don't be too discouraged if they don't respond.

Unfortunately I dont know about any GRE class in my city (Ankara) but eventhough there is one I dont have enough time to attend them because I am still taking classes at the university and working as RA and TA.

I have just added asking a native speaker to check my application materal before sending them I am sure that I have lots of grammer errors and miss typo.

About GRE verbal books I should check local stores and illegal ways to get them since ordering books from Amazon can even take a month for shipping. (I have Barron's GRE book in my shelf)

I am planing to contact professors that I want to work but first I want to get some outcome from my research projects. I will be at INRIA (France) this summer as visiting RA hopefully after that I will be done with at least one project.

[medivh]

As to getting your score up quick, a score of 320 makes me suspect you have problems with the test overall... The GRE verbal doesn't just test vocabulary, although it is a major component, especially with the antonyms section. Before you start memorizing words, pick up a GRE study aid and read the 'how to take the test' section carefully. You probably will be able to increase scores in other areas, such as reading comprehension, without having to do lots of memorization... You just need to know the correct way to approach the test.

You are totaly right about this. I didnt study for GRE except some sample exams. I remember that my reading comprehention questions were too hard (when compared to TOEFL since I got 29/30 from that) and I couldnt give satisfying answers. Or maybe I have solved them correct but I did alot of mistakes at prior parts and my score suffered alot from that.

[karl_marx_jr]

For PhD admits at top schools, gpa and gre are useless, the single most important factor is your research background. So you are in a wrong way by concentrating on low gpa or gre verbal. Why the fuck mit is not interested in gre ? You must also contact with your desired professor for PhD. And he or she will look at your papers first.

My advice is publish and publish like crazy. Choose quality over quantity. Find tier 1 and tier 2 conferences in your research area. Make one tier-1 or two tier-2 publications and you are in. You may ask your professor what tier-1 and tier-2 conferences are. Unless you are working in machine learning specialization keep away from journals they take approximately 6 months to publish. Another benefit of these kind of conferences are networking, you will meet with valuable professors and may establish some contacts.

Publications are the most important part of your application because for your professor to survive, get tenure positions and maintain them they need publications. In this recession and bad economy it is really difficult to get research grants and it is very competitive. So you are carrying a huge risk since you have no publications in your bag. Try to work with well published professors in your institution.

[cpu90]

On 3/12/2010 at 3:13 PM, karl_marx_jr said:

For PhD admits at top schools, gpa and gre are useless, the single most important factor is your research background. So you are in a wrong way by concentrating on low gpa or gre verbal. Why the fuck mit is not interested in gre ? You must also contact with your desired professor for PhD. And he or she will look at your papers first.

My advice is publish and publish like crazy. Choose quality over quantity. Find tier 1 and tier 2 conferences in your research area. Make one tier-1 or two tier-2 publications and you are in. You may ask your professor what tier-1 and tier-2 conferences are. Unless you are working in machine learning specialization keep away from journals they take approximately 6 months to publish. Another benefit of these kind of conferences are networking, you will meet with valuable professors and may establish some contacts.

Publications are the most important part of your application because for your professor to survive, get tenure positions and maintain them they need publications. In this recession and bad economy it is really difficult to get research grants and it is very competitive. So you are carrying a huge risk since you have no publications in your bag. Try to work with well published professors in your institution.

Hi,

Unfortunately, I have to say that research/publications are NOT the most important part of your application, nor is GRE. I have my own case to offer, I am applying to computer science PhD this year and so far I am very disappointed with what I've got...

My problem: Low undergrad GPA.

My advantage: High grad gpa ( I am finishing up my SECOND ms now btw), multiple publications ( journal AND highly reputable conferences), and high GRE.

Result: 2 wait-listed, 1 acceptance, around 5 yet to hear from, the rest rejections ( around 12 ).

My detailed stat:

Major/focus: computer science/computer vision for PhD

Undergrad GPA: 2.71 (major might be even worse, at around 2.5?)

Grad GPA: 3.89 (from RIT), 3.56 (from Penn State)

GRE: 770 math, 630 verbal, 4.5 writing

TOEFL (if it even matters) 110 iBT

Publications: All first authorship. 1 @ journal of neurophysiology, 1 @ MICCAI (#1 medical imaging conference), 2 technical reports at Penn State and CMU, 1 from AIPR workshop, 1 from CVPR 2010, and 2 posters from Society for Neuroscience.

Research experience: RA experience of 3 years at University of Rochester Medical School, 1 summer at CMU Robotics Institute, 2 years at Penn State.

Schools that I applied (20 schools)

USC - no reply yet

NYU - rejected

Johns Hopkins - no reply yet

Northwestern - no reply yet

UCLA - rejected

Berkeley - rejected

UC Irvine - waiting listed

Stony Brook - Accepted, full TA (regular year) and RA (summer) funding with additional departmental fellowship

U Maryland - waiting listed

Cornell - rejected

WUSTL - rejected

U Texas at Austin - rejected

Purdue - waiting listed

U of Minnesota - no reply yet

Brown - rejected

Rochester - rejected

U Penn - rejected

U Ullinois - rejected

Georgia Tech - no reply yet

Anyway, the REAL story is that yes the professors need you to be ready for research in order to survive. However, undergrad GPA (and GRE) is the threshold: if you don't go over the threshold for each school, the secretary will just discard your application, so none of your publications/experience will be seen no matter how impressive they are. Just look at my case. My GRE is probably enough for most of the schools that I applied (to at least pass the screening threshold), but my undergrad GPA, horribly low, probably got me cut from all those rejected places by the secretary.

So, I hate to say this, but low undergrad GPA IS a problem. The only thing you can do to improve your chance is to do well in MS and publish, since there's no much other things you can do anyway. Then, apply to a variety of schools like I did because the schools' admission process can vary from many factors, and maybe in some years undergrad GPA isn't so important.

One more thing: international applicatns tend to already have a MS, whereas the US domestic applications apply straight out of undergrad. The difference then is research experience. I was invited by Stony Brook for department visit maybe 2 weeks ago, there were 10 of us and I was the only one with MS! And here is the key: I was also the only one with RA summer funding and additional departmental fellowship, the rest of the guys had just TA funding for regular year. This tells you that research experience won't get you accepted by itself, your entire package does. But research experience gives you extra funding opportunities that others won't get, because you are research ready. But to be admitted, undergrad gpa and GRE is SO important because these are the screening threshold. You know each school's CS department gets like 1000+ applications and they can only send out around 100 offers (30 of which will actually accept). They cannot go through each and every application in detail, so they screen out unqualified applicants first by undergrad GPA and GRE, therefore those 2 things are important in this regard. So you don't have to try to get perfect GRE as long as it is high enough, but to my understanding, undergrad GPA is really important because most of domestic applicants don't have a MS degree and are you saying they have no way to be admitted? and yea I think research experience is overrated. it's good that if you are research ready but you go to school to be trained, so they are looking for students with potential, whom they can train and shape into a good researcher, so having mad (or quality) publications will help, but it'll really only be affected your funding decision, not admission decision from the department.

[cpu90]

just to add to my qualifications:

I received Outstanding Graduate Student Award, this is a 2-recipient award for the entire CS department.

So I'd say I definitely aced my MS degrees, but yea, still very poor admission results.......undergrad GPA will burn me for my entire life I guess.

[grotesqueidols]

However, undergrad GPA (and GRE) is the threshold: if you don't go over the threshold for each school, the secretary will just discard your application, so none of your publications/experience will be seen no matter how impressive they are. Just look at my case. My GRE is probably enough for most of the schools that I applied (to at least pass the screening threshold), but my undergrad GPA, horribly low, probably got me cut from all those rejected places by the secretary.

That is absolutely not true. I've posted this same rant other places but, as someone who has worked admissions in a variety of schools, at times as a secretary, they do not have the power to discard your application. Only the committee can rule you out. If it makes you feel better to believe that an un-specialized person tossed your application rather than you having been denied by the specialist admission committee, keep telling yourself that. While the committee MAY have thresholds, the secretary does not. I don't buy the threshold argument for anything other than the TOFL, by the way.

To be honest, my boyfriend had as low an undergrad GPA as you, has no masters degree (even though he is foreign...) and was admitted with full funding, stipend, etc to a few of the schools that you list as either having rejected you or having not given you a response yet. He did get double 800s on the GRE but, in reality, everyone has told him he was admitted on the strength and creativity of his previous work and his recs. No one even mentioned his undergrad GPA. Indeed, one school that you list as having not responded to you yet offered him a named scholarship on top of the stipend before even SEEING his undergrad GPA...the transcript was lost in the mail.

I'm sorry to be harsh but your information is flawed and discouraging. If you are unhappy with the results of your applications I suggest you revisit and rewrite your statement of purpose (most people actually don't realize what a good statement really is), consider finding out how detailed and personally involved your recs were (how well do these people actually know you, did your recs glow?), and ask yourself if your research interests and goals are actually a fit with the massive number of schools you applied to (which seems impossible).

To the original poster, don't give up

[cpu90]

That is absolutely not true. I've posted this same rant other places but, as someone who has worked admissions in a variety of schools, at times as a secretary, they do not have the power to discard your application. Only the committee can rule you out.

Ok let me be more political correct. What I said probably do not apply to ALL schools, but it is indeed happening, secretary (or whatever you call them, but NOT the admission committee themselves at the meeting) do discard applications at pre-screening.

I know this because I got e-mails from some of the schools telling me that my undergraduate GPA is not enough for them to consider my application. (not all of the rejected ones, but they did e-mail me) So I did not make this up.

Moreover, my girlfriend is trying to go to the same school as me, therefore she also applied. She is a foreigner, while her undergrad GPA was 3.9 with very high GRE (790 math and 670 verbal) and numerous awards, her TOEFL was only a 82 iBT. She did not apply to as many schools as I did but 3 of her schools also e-mailed her that her TOEFL is not as high as their required 100 iBT, so she will be rejected and not reviewed.

The persons sending this e-mail IS the grad admission secretary, because the e-mails have their names on it and on the signature part. You may say that it may be the decision of the graduate committe and she's just the one sending the e-mail, but no this is not true, because we fought for her TOEFL case by e-mailing the graduate committee chair asking them to waive this requirement since she has been in the States for 2 years, and the department chair forwarded our e-mail to the secratary, telling the secratery to re-consider her case. After that, the secratery asked her for some other documents, and told her ok they will consider her file. Tell me if this doesn't prove that the admission secretary indeed does the pre-screen.

Again, I apologize for my not 100% correct wording. Not ALL schools do that, but "most" of them have pre-screen cut off, and pre-screen cut-off's purpose is to reduce the number of applications to be reviewed due to the astronomical number of applications each year. Therefore, low undergrad GPA or low GRE has low likelihood of being admitted into decent schools. WAIT I didn't say they will never be, exceptions do occur, I am happy for your boyfriend, but lets be honest, do you really see a guy with 2.71 undergrad GPA of having a good chance of getting in decent place? I am not crying in sour tone. Obviously I did all the work I can do, I'm not sitting around complaining and giving up on my life just because of my 2.71, read my stat from the previous post. My recommendation writers (3 of them) have know me for many years, 2 of them have known me for more than 4 years and we're very good friends, 1 of them even gave me a copy of what he wrote of me.....so don't assume that they're not writing good things about me.

I applied to 20 schools because after 2 MS I am now 27, and if I miss this chance I will not apply again, so I applied to all the schools that I found interest in. I studied each school's department, and every professor that does my area of focus, I did my research as best as I could, I don't just throw money into the pot and see what happens, please do not assume, once again, that I am just picking schools by name. I have 20 versions of SOP, 1 for each school, each indicating the professor of my interest with reference to their recent publications. Plus if you look closely my 20 schools are carefully selected, only a few top names, mostly in the mid level, all big engineering schools with my specialization, a very reasonable list.

I don't doubt that you have worked admissions. But that doesn't mean all admissions work that way, and the e-mails that me and my girlfriend has gone through certainly are not the case in your school, which means you really can't just use your experience to rule everything out. Please no personal attacks here such as " if it makes you feel better ". We're adults and when I say things thats' because something happened (those e-mails and calls), with facts not because I'm ranting cuz of all the rejections. Thanks.

Edited April 6, 2010 by cpu90

[cpu90]

btw my SOP was reviewed and revised by one of my recommender, he is a close friend of mine almost like a father to me, and he is the head of his lab at a unviersity medical school. I appreciate you going over what I could revisit. Unfortunately I do my research and my homework before comitting to applying to schools and even what schools to apply.

I apologize for the discouraging tone, but such is life. Facts are facts while there are exceptions, we should always look at the majority. Can you disagree that majority of the people who get accepted into decent schools are well-rounded students with good records? Can you disagree that GPA of lower than 3.0 are among the definite minorities (if any) of the offers sent out by those schools?

Yes not all chance is lost, to the original poster. He does have a chance, there is no such thing as 100%. I got in stony brook, and who knows I might get accepted by the wait listed schools also. But I'm being realistic, probably not, I'm not blinding myself to make myself feel better, but we need to be realistic and that's when we can make the next step to improve ourselves. Real advise is hard to swallow, and only the bravest can see his own weakness and improve upon it. You can say it in any better way to make anybody feel better, but the fact is a low undergrad GPA or GRE hurt your chance greatly. Do what you can to improve your chances on the things you can still improve on (research, etc) and hope for the best, I dont' see what is wrong with this.

[grotesqueidols]

Oh man, I am so not willing to have a flame war tonight...I have a pumpkin to cook and a dissertation to write

One thing to note, I said that I do not buy cut-offs EXCEPT in the case of the TOFL. Please see my original response. Schools and departments will always have a hard TOFL score that they don't admit below unless, perhaps, you have a demonstrable learning disability like dyslexia. The reasoning behind this should be obvious.

Did departmental administrators email YOU directly and tell you that your application would not be considered by the committee due to your low GPA? Not be considered at all? Or did they email you and tell you that your application had been denied by the committee due to your low GPA. If the first happened, I am honestly surprised.

Departments/Schools usually publish their TOFL cut off score so that people who score below that mark can choose not to apply and waste their money on an automatic reject. Should they apply anyway, well, they had been warned. If you were told that you were automatically rejected without any committee review by an admin due to an unpublished undergraduate GPA requirement you should be asking for your money back...you could not have known that you were not able to even apply...which is why departmental admissions does not work that way. The committee might internally set some sort of cut off score (maybe) but they will be the ones that make the cut. Again, the reasoning behind this should be obvious.

[cpu90]

Oh man, I am so not willing to have a flame war tonight...I have a pumpkin to cook and a dissertation to write

One thing to note, I said that I do not buy cut-offs EXCEPT in the case of the TOFL. Please see my original response. Schools and departments will always have a hard TOFL score that they don't admit below unless, perhaps, you have a demonstrable learning disability like dyslexia. The reasoning behind this should be obvious.

Did departmental administrators email YOU directly and tell you that your application would not be considered by the committee due to your low GPA? Not be considered at all? Or did they email you and tell you that your application had been denied by the committee due to your low GPA. If the first happened, I am honestly surprised.

Departments/Schools usually publish their TOFL cut off score so that people who score below that mark can choose not to apply and waste their money on an automatic reject. Should they apply anyway, well, they had been warned. If you were told that you were automatically rejected without any committee review by an admin due to an unpublished undergraduate GPA requirement you should be asking for your money back...you could not have known that you were not able to even apply...which is why departmental admissions does not work that way. The committee might internally set some sort of cut off score (maybe) but they will be the ones that make the cut. Again, the reasoning behind this should be obvious.

Ms. grotesqueidols, you are right the departments do publish their TOEFL cut offs. But if you look closely, vast majority of them also do publish their undergrad GPA min. I can quote "minimum Undergraduate GPA of 3.0" from so many of the departmental websites from the schools that I applied.

The e-mails that I received was from early janurary, basically saying that my application will not be reviewed because my undergraduate GPA is below their bottom threshold, straight from the secretary, not some mass e-mail rejection that they sent out stating too many qualified applications this year and we're not able to admit all of the bright students etc etc. Furthermore, early january is not when they hold committee meetings, way too early, that's even before they distribute the applications to area faculties.

Then again, like I said, I didn't get that e-mail from all of the rejected schools, just some. With the fact that I am on wait list for several of them + a fully funded offer, not all schools do hard-cut off from undergrad gpa is agreed, but apparently it does happen more than you think at least by looking at my case.

Lastly, the fact is that very many applications are well put-together, very many applicants have never really made any mistake in their school years, and most of the people who apply has great qualifications. If you're in (or your bf) a grad program, look around you, they're all top students from top universities world wide. Take my department for example, 75% of our grad students are international, all coming from top notch schools such as Beijing University, Tsinghua University, IIT of India, National Taiwan University, you name it. Not only they're from those top universities, they all have high GPA, with most of them having better GRE than I do (especially the chinese students from the mainland, they all score 600+ on verbal, some 700+, and you can guess that they all pretty much have 800 on math)

The competition is extremely tough, each school (the big schools such as the ones that I applied) send out just 100 offers, and really a big percentage of those 100 overlaps from school to school, because when a school thinks of a candidate is qualified, usually if this guy applies to other schools it'll also be the case. So if you count in my 20 schools, each sending out 100 offers, total to 2000 offers, with maybe 50% of them being overlaps. Therefore, 1000 offers for the entire world, that means if you want to really secure your chances, you want to shoot for being the top 1000 student in the world. There is a reason why engineering graduate school consists of on average 75% or more international students...because they know that if you want to have a chance, score as high on GRE as possible, 1200 is good but not enough, 1300 is nice but can be better, 1400 is great but still 200 away from perfect score. Samething applies to publications and more.

Many great applicants therefore cannot be admitted due to the space limit per each department, so to push yourself into the tight spots, really have to aim 100% on all the things you can do. if undergrad gpa is set in stone, do all those other things you can improve upon and hope for the best, that is the only way, and you may become the exception of being given a great offer such as Ms. grotesqueidols' boyfriend and me. Nevertheless, don't just relax and think things will be ok because such exception exists, exceptions are exceptions, vast majorities of people who get in do have very eye opening background (2 guys from my department were physics/math high school olympic representatives from their province in china), and if you know that those are the likes that you are facing in the competition, make sure you aim to do the best of the best on everything.

[grotesqueidols]

If you're in...a grad program, look around you, they're all top students from top universities world wide.

Haha, you've clearly never visited Cambridge. Perhaps your definition of "top" is different than mine. I feel like people tend to tumble into a Cambridge PhD. I sure did. A motley lot with diverse backgrounds, quite an age range, many/most of whom distinguished themselves in other ways than marks. My GPA was, ehh, alright...nothing to write home about. My GRE was TERRIBLE but thankfully unneeded in the UK...and heck my masters dissertation had not even been accepted yet when I was admitted to the PhD program. I did quite well on it but there was no way for them to really know that. I am just one of a very small number of people who study a very interesting thing that generates a lot of press; I am also good at what I do. Nothing else really matters if your work is solid and unique.

This is getting long and annoying. You are using numbers as a crutch. If you would like to specifically list the Universities that took your money and emailed you directly to tell you that your application would not be reviewed by the committee because of your undergraduate GPA, perhaps we will believe you. Somehow I don't imagine that list will appear.

[grotesqueidols]

And PS, if one of the schools you are referring to as having sent you an email is Brown, they do begin holding their meetings in Jan. If you got eliminated at that point, it was by the committee. I can't speak for any of the other schools on your list however.

[cpu90]

And PS, if one of the schools you are referring to as having sent you an email is Brown, they do begin holding their meetings in Jan. If you got eliminated at that point, it was by the committee. I can't speak for any of the other schools on your list however.

Ms. grotesqueidols no it was not Brown. You know that it would be a bad idea for me to provide the list of schools who denied me and e-mailed me regarding my undergrad GPA, yet you still ask for it, you're seriously not in for a fair discussion are you?

I don't know the situation in Cambridge UK since I'm in the State. I don't understand why you want to keep arguing about how "bad" you are with terrible GRE and GPA and you're in a great PhD program. Would that really help people here? It is not a good idea to keep padding people in the back and tell them "you can do it!" while they clearly have problems with GPA or GRE, are you suggesting people to just go ahead and apply with a poor GRE/GPA, and just don't worry about it because you made it in? Any serious applicant would try to put together an excellent package for application and improve wherever they can, and from what I'm hearing from you so far, you're disagreeing with me because I sound discouraging, and now you are disagreeing with me for the sake of disagreeing, this is not a rational thing nor a productive conversation. I don't think I am pushing it too far, since I've accepted that probably not all schools use GRE/GPA as a pre-screen but some definitely do, and now you're just going to bring up all the "diversity" of the student body in Cambridge.

Plus, what is wrong at seeing the numbers? Like I said there are always exceptions, but majority is what we look at and that's why there's a field called statistics. I don't think anyone can disagree on that a low GPA/GRE will only hurt one's application chances, and the only way is to improve it. Ok let's assume there is no place that ever pre-screen by GPA/GRE, would it then be ok for a person to feel good about his or her chances with a poor GRE score, and throw in that 100$ application fee and expect to be admitted?

Ms. grotesqueidol please do not argue for the sake of disagreeing, you are so hung up on the idea of there is NO GRE/GPA pre-screen that everything I say becomes flawed to you even though I am simply being objective and realistic. If my story is a discouraging one, it's not like I wanted it to be, it is the real story of how a low undergrad GPA haunts me for my entire career, don't try to find flaws in my other credentials, try to look at the big picture: are the majority of low undergrad GPA (below 3.0) doing good at applying to top PhD programs? some probably does, but not "majority" for sure, so there is no point arguing this guy or that guy got in here and there with this terrible GPA/GRE, that's misleading, that's just telling people that if they got a bad GRE, dont worry you'll be fine, don't retake it cuz this guy got in here with a terrible score.

[grotesqueidols]

You know that it would be a bad idea for me to provide the list of schools who denied me and e-mailed me regarding my undergrad GPA, yet you still ask for it, you're seriously not in for a fair discussion are you?

A discussion without facts is fair? Sans facts, I continue to not believe you. You've brought no facts to the table. Suffice to say your words on objectivity made me giggle but your rants aren't worth responding to at this point. I've got an insanely cute monster to knit. Goodbye thread! Goodbye annoying, ranty, attention seeky person in the internet box! Hello purple and green knit monster!

[cpu90]

A discussion without facts is fair? Sans facts, I continue to not believe you. You've brought no facts to the table. Suffice to say your words on objectivity made me giggle but your rants aren't worth responding to at this point. I've got an insanely cute monster to knit. Goodbye thread! Goodbye annoying, ranty, attention seeky person in the internet box! Hello purple and green knit monster!

I could have said that you do not have facts either, but I never did, because that's a meaningless rebuttal....even if I do give you the list of the schools that e-mailed me regarding my undergrad GPA, how would you check the validity?? If you tell me where you attend school and your program's average accepted GPA/GRE, how do I check it??

You are missing the point. Point is, low undergrad GPA is a huge disadvantage no matter what, and low GRE will keep you out of top schools unless you strive to score as high as you can. Exceptions do exist but that does not speak for the majority.

But I guess you choose to end the discussion with a series of personal attacks, which I have no done so in any of my posts. That is up to you.