LOR Pet Peeves

[Firled]

I am a Ph.D. student who also works as a lecturer part-time so I have experienced both sides of the issue. Anyone else in this position? Having to write them and also request them too?

My pet peeves as a writer:

*Students who ask for several letters of recommendation and then neglect to say THANK YOU. I am disgusted by this rudeness.

As a part-time faculty and grad student I wasn't getting paid to write them so thanks would have been nice. Some generous students have given

me gift cards as thanks but I know I cannot expect this. One student wanted a last minute FEDEX that I had to pay $30 for since she decided on a whim to apply to a program with a deadline in two days. Never heard from her again.

*Students who e-mail in a panic needing a reference letter in less than three days. Do they seriously think I can drop everything and write a letter? Students need to realize these letters take hours away from my own work.

*Students who expect you to pay out of your own pocket for postage (my department DOES NOT pay for postage for part-time faculty or grad students) for sending letters. I have spent about $50 this past year on postage for students.

My pet peeves as a requester:

*Professors who forget deadlines and have to be hounded. I have lost out on fellowships this way.

*Professors who write weak letters of reference and have to be re-written, replaced or substituted.

All in all, the LOR process sucks for all concerned!

Edited March 7, 2010 by Firled

[hogmommy]

I had no problems getting my LORs written. I asked early and they were all turned in on time. I sent effusive thank you emails to my writers and even offered to reimburse a professor who paid unnecessary postage. (She paid $7 for expedited service to my home even though the application packet wasn't due until 6 weeks after the letter arrived.) She refused to accept reimbursement, but I can't imagine not offering.

[Strong Flat White]

I am a Ph.D. student who also works as a lecturer part-time so I have experienced both sides of the issue. Anyone else in this position? Having to write them and also request them too?

My pet peeves as a writer:

*Students who ask for several letters of recommendation and then neglect to say THANK YOU. I am disgusted by this rudeness.

As a part-time faculty and grad student I wasn't getting paid to write them so thanks would have been nice. Some generous students have given

me gift cards as thanks but I know I cannot expect this. One student wanted a last minute FEDEX that I had to pay $30 for since she decided on a whim to apply to a program with a deadline in two days. Never heard from her again.

*Students who e-mail in a panic needing a reference letter in less than three days. Do they seriously think I can drop everything and write a letter? Students need to realize these letters take hours away from my own work.

*Students who expect you to pay out of your own pocket for postage (my department DOES NOT pay for postage for part-time faculty or grad students) for sending letters. I have spent about $50 this past year on postage for students.

My pet peeves as a requester:

*Professors who forget deadlines and have to be hounded. I have lost out on fellowships this way.

*Professors who write weak letters of reference and have to be re-written, replaced or substituted.

All in all, the LOR process sucks for all concerned!

As Norm MacDonald once said, "everyone involved in this story should DIE."

By that, I mean any requester who doesn't give thanks or recognition in some form, and any recommender who makes promises that (s)he can't keep. Period. I mean, we're talking about human beings. This is the deal.

[bluellie]

I have three or four professors I have consistently tapped for letters of recommendation over the years. Typically I have given them a hand-written thank you note once the letter is submitted. When applying to graduate school this year I included a small gift card to a bookstore with my letter. I did this mostly in recognition of the many times they have spoken on my behalf and because I believed, a bit naively, that this would be the last time I would have to ask them for a letter (darn this dreadful application cycle!). While I will be a bit embarrassed and sheepish when I go crawling back to them for additional letters next year, I believe my actions this year will make next year less awkward.

I sympathize with you, Firled. A thank-you e-mail, while better than nothing, requires so little effort it feels almost thoughtless, in my opinion. I, however, have never been on the receiving end. Do you draw much of a distinction between a hand-written note versus a prompt e-mail? Or is it really just the thought that counts?

Edited March 7, 2010 by bluellie

[lily_]

I completely sympathize with you about having to hound professors about LORs. This time around, it was particularly stressful because one did not respond to me until she submit it, so I'm filled with dread that it wasn't good (even though I was the best student in 2 of her graduate level classes and have worked for her on a project for 2 years and produced something that she is mulling over for publishing in an upcoming monograph).

However, I am always minimally 4 weeks in advance (with this last application I was exactly 4 weeks before the due date and apologized for tardiness) and always send out thank-yous about a week or so after the application is due!!! The other thing is that I follow up with e-mails and correspondence of what has changed, did I get in, etc. etc. I understand that they are busy people whose lives don't revolve around my (hopefully) burgeoning career, but I always thought if I wrote a letter for someone I'd like to know what happened in the end.

Thank-you notes are something that everyone should do no matter what! Interviews, Christmas presents, cheer-ups, LORs, whatever!

[Firled]

I have three or four professors I have consistently tapped for letters of recommendation over the years. Typically I have given them a hand-written thank you note once the letter is submitted. When applying to graduate school this year I included a small gift card to a bookstore with my letter. I did this mostly in recognition of the many times they have spoken on my behalf and because I believed, a bit naively, that this would be the last time I would have to ask them for a letter (darn this dreadful application cycle!). While I will be a bit embarrassed and sheepish when I go crawling back to them for additional letters next year, I believe my actions this year will make next year less awkward.

I sympathize with you, Firled. A thank-you e-mail, while better than nothing, requires so little effort it feels almost thoughtless, in my opinion. I, however, have never been on the receiving end. Do you draw much of a distinction between a hand-written note versus a prompt e-mail? Or is it really just the thought that counts?

Thank you! I think professors just like to get a thank you e-mail at the very minimum. Otherwise, how do we know our LORs are effective? As for me, I give small gifts or at the very minimum a hand-written thank you card to my referees. I think with some students it's a sense of entitlement so they see letters of rec as their right and not a favor. They also fail to appreciate that part-time faculty don't get paid to write these and postage comes out of our pockets. What I have resorted to doing is to recommend that they seek a full time professor's LOR but since those professors are busy, the part-timers usually get hit with more requests.

Edited March 7, 2010 by Firled

[Firled]

I completely sympathize with you about having to hound professors about LORs. This time around, it was particularly stressful because one did not respond to me until she submit it, so I'm filled with dread that it wasn't good (even though I was the best student in 2 of her graduate level classes and have worked for her on a project for 2 years and produced something that she is mulling over for publishing in an upcoming monograph).

However, I am always minimally 4 weeks in advance (with this last application I was exactly 4 weeks before the due date and apologized for tardiness) and always send out thank-yous about a week or so after the application is due!!! The other thing is that I follow up with e-mails and correspondence of what has changed, did I get in, etc. etc. I understand that they are busy people whose lives don't revolve around my (hopefully) burgeoning career, but I always thought if I wrote a letter for someone I'd like to know what happened in the end.

Thank-you notes are something that everyone should do no matter what! Interviews, Christmas presents, cheer-ups, LORs, whatever!

I agree with you. My hope is that some student who reads this thread will think twice and remember to thank their LOR writer!

[johndiligent]

I have not offered to reimburse my LOR writers for courier expenses so I guess that makes me one of the evil people in this story, but my reasoning is that: a) I asked my writers in August, 2) I had all materials to them by the first week of September, 3) My earliest deadline was December 1, with the rest in January, which means that they had at least three months if not four to write and mail the letters, 4) I gave them stamped, addressed envelopes for every letter, 5) I never asked them to send anything by courier. When this happened, they themselves elected to do so (because they knew they'd procrastinated and the letters were late).

It might make me a bad person not to offer, but honestly, I feel like they had plenty of opportunity not to have to send it by courier and they sort of chose to incur the expense by leaving it until the last minute. Had it been my fault that they needed to do it, I would have paid for it, of course.

I sent formal thank you notes, and once I make my decision I will send a small gift plus a letter of thanks, informing them of where I ended up going. I worried about the quid pro quo-ness of that for a while but it was done more out of financial necessity (this time of year, I could barely afford the Thank You cards!) so hopefully they'll understand that.

[Firled]

I have not offered to reimburse my LOR writers for courier expenses so I guess that makes me one of the evil people in this story, but my reasoning is that: a) I asked my writers in August, 2) I had all materials to them by the first week of September, 3) My earliest deadline was December 1, with the rest in January, which means that they had at least three months if not four to write and mail the letters, 4) I gave them stamped, addressed envelopes for every letter, 5) I never asked them to send anything by courier. When this happened, they themselves elected to do so (because they knew they'd procrastinated and the letters were late).

It might make me a bad person not to offer, but honestly, I feel like they had plenty of opportunity not to have to send it by courier and they sort of chose to incur the expense by leaving it until the last minute. Had it been my fault that they needed to do it, I would have paid for it, of course.

I sent formal thank you notes, and once I make my decision I will send a small gift plus a letter of thanks, informing them of where I ended up going. I worried about the quid pro quo-ness of that for a while but it was done more out of financial necessity (this time of year, I could barely afford the Thank You cards!) so hopefully they'll understand that.

johndiligent, I don't think it's evil if it's the professor's fault for sending a letter late so you're entirely correct. The professor should offer to pay the courier charge if they are at fault, but not if the student requests late. This student had looked up my telephone number and called me at home to beg for the letter to be couriered so I felt sympathy for her at the time. I'm sure as I gain more experience, I will get a lot meaner!

[fromeurope]

I sent thank you e-mails to my LOR writers, and two out of three invited me to coffee/tea, on their expense, after I told them about my admittance in a second set of e-mails (but although I was told I could order anything, I just went with tea...).

I really did not feel that I needed to give them gifts or re-imburse them for postage costs (also, 80% of my apps were fully digital in this respect). Actually, doing this would have made me feel very strange.

[Firled]

I sent thank you e-mails to my LOR writers, and two out of three invited me to coffee/tea, on their expense, after I told them about my admittance in a second set of e-mails (but although I was told I could order anything, I just went with tea...).

I really did not feel that I needed to give them gifts or re-imburse them for postage costs (also, 80% of my apps were fully digital in this respect). Actually, doing this would have made me feel very strange.

I think most instructors just like to be thanked and also informed as to the outcome, which you did!