Northwestern vs. Cornell Engineering

[06aculot]

Hey guys,

So I need a little bit of help, since this is not the position I was expecting to be in so early in March. As it turns out, I got into my top two schools (Cornell & Northwestern). There are pretty significant differences between both options however. On one hand, I got accepted into the PHD environmental engineering program at Northwestern with full funding. I was able to attend their open house not long ago, and loved the place. The faculty and people are really nice, and overall was a very pleasant experience. And just when I had my decision made...I got accepted into Cornell's MASTERS environmental engineering program (I applied as a masters to both, but was offered funding to NU if I changed my application to masters/PhD, which I did).

Now, it is important to mention that I intend to get a PhD no matter what. As in many other posts, the idea of attending an ivy league school is very tempting to say the least. I have yet to receive all of the acceptance information, but I am assuming based on their MS system that I will be receiving little to no aid. My question, then, is for anyone that has had any direct or indirect experience with these programs. If I intend to obtain a PhD 100%, which offer sounds more enticing? In fact, any information on the programs at all would be awesome. I am having a very hard decision choosing between these programs, particularly because the offers are so different. Also, for the sake of more diverse answers, lets assume that funding is not the #1 priority, but just an added bonus if available.

NU:

-PhD (5 years)

-Full funding

-Chicago seems like a great city to live in

-Very small department (small faculty/student ratio)

-Considerable reputation

Cornell:

-Masters degree (2 years)

-No funding as of right now (could potentially change in the near future)

-Ithaca? Have yet to attend the open house so I am not very familiarized with the area

-Also a small department with a great faculty/student ratio

-And, obviously, the reason why this is even a viable question - Ivy League status (is it worth it?)

Thank you to all those who want to contribute to the discussion! While this situation is extremely stressful, I feel blessed and wish everyone else the best of luck getting in to their top choices!

Edited March 12, 2010 by 06aculot

[remixed486]

hey there. i'm not in your field at all, but i thought i'd share my two cents. ultimately, you need to decide what you want to do with your degree after you graduate. if you intend on doing research, going to the school with the better reputation *in environmental engineering research* is your best bet. believe it or not, some ivy leagues don't have the best programs out there. in fact, i know someone who interviewed at northwestern and cornell (for a phd in the communication sciences and psychology, respectively...both with funding) and was appalled at cornell's lack of organization and cohesiveness in their program.

another issue you didn't really discuss (nor do i know if it's important to you) is time until graduation. the phd on average takes 4-5 years and taking on the latter option would set you back further 1-2 years. plus you'd have to apply again to a phd program if you chose the masters. one more thing i think is important is fit with the faculty and students. remember, you'll be spending a lot of time with them over the next few (or several) years. so you know you get along well in northwestern, maybe it's worth it attending their open house and seeing what it's like. some people change their minds about schools after the visit.

anyway, it'd probably be more helpful if you spoke with someone in env engineering to get a better feel for their comparative reputations, but hopefully my points were at least slightly helpful. best of luck!

[jas]

Go to Northwestern. However, in doing due diligence, you should speak with graduate students in both programs at career placement. If Northwestern grads had good career prospects -- or prospects matching what you'd like to do -- go to Northwestern.

[ScreamingHairyArmadillo]

I think you need some more info first. How often do Cornell MS students continue to the PhD? Do they want to stay there, or is it hard to even get in at that stage? If you can, you should visit to find out more about their atmosphere and people. Also important is job placement, though if they're both your top choices, I'd bet both programs are well respected.

However, if Cornell isn't going to give you any money for 2 years, I'd go with Northwestern. They obviously want you, and you wouldn't have to deal with a possibly messy MS to PhD transition.

[khwook]

Hey 06aculot,

I am in a very similar situation as you are. I have applied to 20 schools (i know) for Mechanical Engineering, and so far 2 acceptances.

1. UCSD: PhD program with a fellowship, guaranteed funding for 3 years.

2. UIUC: MS program, no immediate funding.

According to US News rankings, UCSD is like top 12 in engineering, and UIUC is like top 5.

Like you, I want to get a PhD, 100% sure.

I am still waiting from UC Berkeley and Cornell, but assuming that I am rejected by both, I am likely to choose UIUC. Here are my reasons:

1. I can afford tuition with my own funding + parents' help, so financial aid is not a big decision making factor for me.

2. Although many people around me keep telling me that I shouldn't look at the rankings but choose the professor that I like, I disagree. I believe that those rankings are credible because they are decided by many key factors that are believed to be most important for schools. After all, it's not like they are picked by random, but they are decided after careful review of many different aspects that are regarded important for good quality schools. I also believe that there bound to be plenty of good professors that you would be happy to work with in such schools with good reputation. Otherwise why would they have good reputations?

3. I believe that getting a degree from a high reputation school is very important when you look for a job in the future. You send your resume, and they look at what schools you went to. If you went to a school with a high reputation, obviously your first impression is excellent. And I believe that the first impression like that is very important for getting a job. Of course your actual ability to do certain jobs depends on how hard you studied and how hard you worked. But, I believe that if you are attending a prestigious school it can be a big boost for you to study extra hard (you could argue that it can go other way because of arrogance or something.....but it's just my opinion).

4. In my case, I don't mind applying for PhD programs again in the future. I really wanted to get into MIT or Stanford, but my week areas were low GRE scores and low GPA for first 2 years in college. I had little time (1 and a half month) to prepare for GRE, and I know for sure that I can score much higher if I take more time to study. Also, my GPA for last 2 years were pretty high (over 3.7) because I learned how to manage my time well and studied hard. I believe that I can keep doing that (and even better) when I go to grad school. For these reasons, I wouldn't mind going to a grad school for MS program first, study extra hard, retake GRE, and reapply to my dream schools in 2 years from now.

You don't get to get a PhD twice. You have only one shot. Yes, it might take extra 1-2 years if you do MS only first and then reapply for PhD. But I think that it is important to get your PhD from the school that you really want. For me, I wouldn't mind sacrificing 1-2 years and extra effort to give another shot for my better future.

If you want to keep doing your PhD in Cornell (UIUC in my case) after you finish Masters, I don't think it's that hard. I talked to people who have PhD, and told me that I shouldn't worry about MD or PhD when choosing a school. I was told that it is not hard to change your degree goal once you get into the school. During your Masters study, as long as you get good grades and find a professor that is willing to advise you for PhD, you can continue to PhD program. For this reason, they told me that the immediate degree goal doesn't really matter. And I believe that is true.

I hope this helps you decide. Whatever you end up doing, I wish you the best.