Questions about applying to M.A./M.T.S./M.Div. programs

[Vita Passiva]

I am a recent graduate from Boyce College (the undergraduate school of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary). I received my B.A. in Biblical and Theological Studies. I now have plans to pursue graduate studies with a goal to teach and write in the future. I am now a confessional Lutheran. My interest lie in New Testament (Pauline studies, Historical Jesus, Christian Origins) as well as Historical Theology (Lutheran Orthodoxy). I am looking a few different schools, Duke University (M.A.), PTS (MDiv), Yale (M.A.R), Harvard (M.T.S), Candler (M.T.S), Luther Seminary and Concordia Seminary (St. Louis). I am unsure, though, of what kind of students some of the Universities are looking for. My degree is from a Bible College and lacks a broad liberal arts background. Am I in over my head trying to get into Duke, Yale or Harvard? Plus the theological convictions of the school I attended are very conservative. Will this be a hinderance to my application? Also, I am interested to hear from students who have attended any of these schools. What is the ecumenical and theological environment like? Would a confessional Lutheran be out of place in any of these schools?

Sorry for so many questions. I'm just a little unsure about this whole process. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks!

[lovethequestions]

I am a recent graduate from Boyce College (the undergraduate school of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary). I received my B.A. in Biblical and Theological Studies. I now have plans to pursue graduate studies with a goal to teach and write in the future. I am now a confessional Lutheran. My interest lie in New Testament (Pauline studies, Historical Jesus, Christian Origins) as well as Historical Theology (Lutheran Orthodoxy). I am looking a few different schools, Duke University (M.A.), PTS (MDiv), Yale (M.A.R), Harvard (M.T.S), Candler (M.T.S), Luther Seminary and Concordia Seminary (St. Louis). I am unsure, though, of what kind of students some of the Universities are looking for. My degree is from a Bible College and lacks a broad liberal arts background. Am I in over my head trying to get into Duke, Yale or Harvard? Plus the theological convictions of the school I attended are very conservative. Will this be a hinderance to my application? Also, I am interested to hear from students who have attended any of these schools. What is the ecumenical and theological environment like? Would a confessional Lutheran be out of place in any of these schools?

Sorry for so many questions. I'm just a little unsure about this whole process. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks!

As far as I can tell, graduate programs in Biblical Studies simply look for students who are smart, open-minded, capable writers and researchers. So you want your statement of purpose, especially, to make it clear that you're looking to do rigorous academic research and that you're well trained to do so. Admissions boards might potentially be wary of applicants without a classic liberal arts education, but your writing really will speak for itself. If you can show that you know the distinctions between biblical studies and theology, and between theology and apologetics, and that you know what you want to do and are applying to the right school to learn it, you should be all right.

This probably goes without saying, but languages are key. If you haven't started Greek and/or Hebrew, and are able to take a class or two before you apply, definitely do so--I studied both as an undergraduate just because I thought they'd be fun, and was no end pleased to find that they gave me a real edge in my applications.

My experience as a non-Catholic in a Catholic theology department has been that how you self-identify is far less important than how you treat others who think differently than you do. Even if a school has a strong denominational identity, it shouldn't make you feel like a second-class citizen if you're of a different faith background. Where tensions arise, IMO, is when people lack the patience and courtesy to listen to one another--and both people in the majority faith and those in the minority can be to blame for this. I mean, if the school lets you in, that means the professors think you belong there. From there, if other students (or professors) make you feel unwelcome, shame on them.

BTW, I would recommend at least looking into Notre Dame. There are some wonderful New Testament and Early Church people here, and you get a phenomenal amount of face time with the professors for a master's student.

[vanidyam]

Though this is coming from the opposite end of the spectrum, it might he helpful-- I attended Hampshire College for undergrad, which is a radically liberal school-- we don't have grades (narrative evaluations instead), tests, or GPAs, and we pretty much don't have any required classes. It's a good school and all, but it's a little out there. This worried me a bit regarding the biggies like Harvard, Yale, and Duke taking me seriously.

In the end, I did well at Hamp, had some pretty great evaluations, plus really great recommendations. In fact, I had recs from alums of each of the school mentioned above. And Hampshire, being such a writing-intensive school, really helped me with the essays.

As you can see by my signature on this thing, I ended up doing pretty well. Only got rejected from Yale, got waitlisted from Duke, and I got into Harvard with full tuition. I applied for the MDiv program for all the schools, so that might make a different regarding acceptance rates with MTS applicants and whatnot, but the bottom line is-- don't rule out any school, no matter how fancy the name! you never know what they're looking for! If you did well in undergrad, if you write some good essays, and if you have good recommendations, you have a great chance.

[Vita Passiva]

As far as I can tell, graduate programs in Biblical Studies simply look for students who are smart, open-minded, capable writers and researchers. So you want your statement of purpose, especially, to make it clear that you're looking to do rigorous academic research and that you're well trained to do so. Admissions boards might potentially be wary of applicants without a classic liberal arts education, but your writing really will speak for itself. If you can show that you know the distinctions between biblical studies and theology, and between theology and apologetics, and that you know what you want to do and are applying to the right school to learn it, you should be all right.

This probably goes without saying, but languages are key. If you haven't started Greek and/or Hebrew, and are able to take a class or two before you apply, definitely do so--I studied both as an undergraduate just because I thought they'd be fun, and was no end pleased to find that they gave me a real edge in my applications.

My experience as a non-Catholic in a Catholic theology department has been that how you self-identify is far less important than how you treat others who think differently than you do. Even if a school has a strong denominational identity, it shouldn't make you feel like a second-class citizen if you're of a different faith background. Where tensions arise, IMO, is when people lack the patience and courtesy to listen to one another--and both people in the majority faith and those in the minority can be to blame for this. I mean, if the school lets you in, that means the professors think you belong there. From there, if other students (or professors) make you feel unwelcome, shame on them.

BTW, I would recommend at least looking into Notre Dame. There are some wonderful New Testament and Early Church people here, and you get a phenomenal amount of face time with the professors for a master's student.

Thanks for all of your input guys. I really appreciate it. I do have much experience with the languages. I had 3 semesters of Hebrew (amounting to a syntax and exegesis class) and 2 master-level courses in Greek (also completing a syntax and exegesis class). I feel very comfortable with both languages. My GPA, however, is a 3.46, which is not so great. Early on in my studies, i struggled with a few classes. I feel confident in my breadth of reading and my writing skills, so I hope this will be enough.

[Vita Passiva]

Any other feedback from those who have/currently attended Duke University (M.A., MTS), PTS (MDiv), Yale (M.A.R, MDIV), Harvard (M.T.S), Candler (M.T.S)? Much appreciated.

[philonic]

Any other feedback from those who have/currently attended Duke University (M.A., MTS), PTS (MDiv), Yale (M.A.R, MDIV), Harvard (M.T.S), Candler (M.T.S)? Much appreciated.

Based on your stated academic/professional interests, I would advise against applying to the MDiv program at PTS. The administrators and faculty there are not interested in students using the MDiv degree to pursue academic interests outside the church; the degree is intended for students who wish to pursue vocational ministry in the church. Also, I would strongly advise considering a wider range of programs. There are programs out there that are competitive and rigorous but not nearly as exclusive/selective as the ones you have targeted. If you want to get into an Ivy or Duke at some point, I would suggest doing an MA in classics somewhere. Best of luck

[LateAntique]

Funding at Duke is tough - in the Div school, most of it goes towards the M.Div crowd. Very few people in the MTS camp are sitting pretty in terms of financial aid. The MA in the Religion Program is worse - you will get, at most, 50% tuition. That makes for a very expensive two years. Theologically, you wouldn't find any qualms in the Div school - it's very ecumenical over there.

You may also want to look into Florida State's MA in Religion. It has good funding, very very good scholars (David Levenson is a polymath and someone who can help your languages in a big way), has great connections with the Classics program, and has a good history of getting people into good Ph.D programs (places like UVA or UNC).

In secular programs (like FSU's) your personal convictions will matter none. I'm not on any admissions committees, but my feeling is that none of the top schools want a raging fundamentalist. If you're open to ideas and can show that you're ready for academic work, I don't see why you would not be accepted. I attended Southeastern Baptist's undergraduate program for 3 years and while I was there I was told by several schools it would be no problem (Duke's in this list) while others told me it would be near impossible if I held to the convictions that SEBTS holds to (Harvard). One thing they all want to see is languages. The more languages you can get out of the way, the better.

Also, I second looking into Notre Dame for NT and Early Christian stuff.

[NervousNellie]

I think it will always be something of a guessing game trying to figure out what the ad coms are looking for. If they were looking for only one very particular profile for their students, all of the students would come from identical backgrounds, be identical in strengths and skills even if they had different research interests, and every incoming class of the school would be the same from year to year.

I think ad coms are usually more far-sighted than this. They are putting together a "team" each year, a group of students who will together, along with the faculty, make the learning environment engaging, dynamic, interesting, and generative. They look to add people to the team according to what each person can contribute. While they might be looking generally for certain characteristics, such as a background in languages, they'll be more interested in how a particular person completes the team. That will be a little different from year to year.

I have been admitted to two schools and expect a third admit shortly (looks good). I was rejected at one school. Two of the schools I applied to are on your list. From one I received a "yes," and from one a "no." I don't come from a liberal arts or humanities background. Educationally I come from a public health background of all things (though I continued my studies in religious education and have worked for almost a decade in that field). I have absolutely no language experience, aside from sign language LOL, for which I have a basic level of competence achieved not in school but through the need to communicate with my son. Also, the school is a Christian school, and I am not a Christian. Thus, I have some biblical knowledge from my vocational work, but in my opinion I will need to seek some biblical tutoring this summer to get where I need to be in order to mix with the students with whom I will be mixing. From just what I have written here, I am sure most reading will say, "Why on earth would anyone admit her?" When I list out all the "strikes against me," the list is heavy, but you are not seeing the other side of the coin. I come from a really interesting set of experiences and combination of educational activities. I also applied to an M. Div. program with the goal of working in churches, and I have already been doing so for a number of years. I have many "real-world" experiences with the work and liturgy of the church as well as philosophical training in the same. I bring a *lot* to the table, from a very unique background. My education and experiences will definitely contribute to the conversation.

I guess what it comes down to is that if you choose to apply to the schools you have listed here, you will be competing with top students who have similar profiles to yourself. I recommend identifying those things that make you unique, whether a particular set of interests or a particular aspect of your background, and discovering how you can strengthen and enhance them to help you bring more fully to the table something that the schools can't get from anyone, but get specifically from you. In the end, you will have no idea whether that unique aspect of you will be what the schools need to complete the team, but if you don't have it, my sense is that you diminish your chances. Afterall, the school from which I was rejected I know had at least one other applicant (because I know her personally) who has a profile nearly identical to mine. I can only imagine how that would have been amplified if my profile had been less unique.

[Isobel_Mishima]

Thanks for all of your input guys. I really appreciate it. I do have much experience with the languages. I had 3 semesters of Hebrew (amounting to a syntax and exegesis class) and 2 master-level courses in Greek (also completing a syntax and exegesis class). I feel very comfortable with both languages. My GPA, however, is a 3.46, which is not so great. Early on in my studies, i struggled with a few classes. I feel confident in my breadth of reading and my writing skills, so I hope this will be enough.

Don't even worry. I applied with a 3.4 GPA and horrible GRE's and got into Harvard, Yale, Duke and Chicago! They must look at other things. Besides, it is better to apply and not get in than wonder if you could have.

[Vita Passiva]

Don't even worry. I applied with a 3.4 GPA and horrible GRE's and got into Harvard, Yale, Duke and Chicago! They must look at other things. Besides, it is better to apply and not get in than wonder if you could have.

That's great! Did you apply for MDiv or MTS/MAR?