UCSD vs. CalArts? Full ride vs. Loans?

[kewpies]

Specific question: nearing the end, I think my decision is going to be between UCSD and CalArts. I was just wondering what impressions others had about the programs. I feel like I've heard a lot about CalArts, but I still don't know much about UCSD's overall reputation.

General question: this decision is also coming down to choosing between

1. going to my top choice/''dream school'' & taking on loans or

2. going to a school i feel positive about (but not my favorite) & being loan free

any comments/insight would be greatly appreciated! thanks in advance!

[sophiab]

Specific question: nearing the end, I think my decision is going to be between UCSD and CalArts. I was just wondering what impressions others had about the programs. I feel like I've heard a lot about CalArts, but I still don't know much about UCSD's overall reputation.

General question: this decision is also coming down to choosing between

1. going to my top choice/''dream school'' & taking on loans or

2. going to a school i feel positive about (but not my favorite) & being loan free

any comments/insight would be greatly appreciated! thanks in advance!

La Jolla and the area around it is beautiful. There are lots of really fun places to eat, microbreweries, surf culture, etc. It has a lot more character, in my opinion. Valencia is really suburban and has mostly chain restaurants. It reminds me of growing up in the midwest but with better weather. It really doesn't seem like there was anywhere interesting you could easily walk to from campus. I think to get to interesting places, you actually have to drive to LA, which is pretty far. La Jolla is further from LA, but it's still a really doable drive if you want to go. I visited both campuses, and I liked UCSD a lot more.

[grad_wannabe]

Though CalArts has an established reputation as one of the top art schools in the world, UCSD is really on the come up and is quickly gaining recognition right up there with UCLA, UCI and USC . The presence of Allan Kaprow, Lev Manovich and Norman Bryson has heavily bolstered their theory bullpen, and they're pulling a lot of other faculty and graduates from CalArts. In fact, if connections are what you're looking for in grad school (which is a big part of the game) you'll probably make a lot of the same connections here you would at CalArts at a bargain price.

I don't know if you've gotten your funding offer from them yet (I haven't) but I heard that CalArts is notoriously stingy with aid on TOP of being outrageously expensive. A guy I knew who got his MFA there had to move back in with his parents for three years after graduating just to make the loan payments. But then again, you're a painter, right kewpies (sorry if i've got that wrong)? From what I've heard (YMMV) UCSD is primarily an interdisciplinary, more tech-based program (they have the Center for Research in Computing and the Arts, and the Supercomputer Center) so if you want to stick with painting it might be a richer experience for you to do that at CalArts.

A good rule of thumb I've heard about taking out loans is this: don't borrow more than you expect to make your first year out of school.

Just my two cents.

[aspmongo]

Obviously it's a personal choice, but if you've never paid off any large loans before you may not realize how impeding they are and how long it takes to pay them off. Also remember to add in the amount you'll have accrued in interest by the time you finish paying them off. I recently finished paying off my undergrad loans, which were approximately 22K, and the experience while actually as painless as I imagine it can be due to beneficial circumstances was still unpleasant. I was lucky enough to find a decently well-paid job and am single, which helped significantly expense-wise as I was able to devote a moderate portion of my paycheck without worrying about a kid or not having anything left after rent and food. If I had chosen a lower income position or had other expenses it would have been more difficult. And keep in mind you can't really write off education debt like you can credit card debt if you get into financial trouble.

For MFA I am deliberately choosing to go to a mid-range school that will waive tuition and pay a TA stipend instead of taking on more debt for a more prestigious program.

Nevertheless, that being said I did pick a prestigious undergrad instead of a state school and thus have already done the exact opposite, and I don't think I would undo that choice if I were given it again. Basically you need to ask yourself - if I went to the good school instead of the better school will I always wonder "what if?" I think I would've for undergrad, and I think I won't for MFA. But it's really down to you. Is it worth X amount of money, knowing you'll sacrifice or put off other items like a car, a down payment on a house, nice vacations, etc? What realistically do you see as a 5-10 year projected total post-grad income? Will you have any external financial support?

[CSanta]

I think it depends on what kind of work you plan to make. I'm from San Diego and I work across the street from UCSD. One of my colleagues went there for her MFA, and I am familiar with cal arts because I looked into their program during my own app process. like grad wanna be said, if you are a painter, even a fairly conceptual one, I would go to Cal Arts, hands down. If you are new genre/ tech based, UCSD is a great program for you, and it would be worth it to be debt free.

As for San Diego, one of the reasons I am leaving is that it is very conservative and the art world is VERY small. The gallery scene is almost non existent. I know Valencia is full of strip malls, but at least it is close to LA. To drive up to LA from SD in traffic is a major pain (it has taken me over 4 hours on several occasions), and the train is $60 dollars round trip. I think if your goal is to be connected to the art world, CalArts is a better place to do it not just because of its stellar reputation, but because of its close proximity to one of the biggest art centers in the world.

[shrub]

Specific question: nearing the end, I think my decision is going to be between UCSD and CalArts. I was just wondering what impressions others had about the programs. I feel like I've heard a lot about CalArts, but I still don't know much about UCSD's overall reputation.

General question: this decision is also coming down to choosing between

1. going to my top choice/''dream school'' & taking on loans or

2. going to a school i feel positive about (but not my favorite) & being loan free

any comments/insight would be greatly appreciated! thanks in advance!

I went to UCSD for 2 1/2 years after I transfered from a community college. I know many of the graduate students and I am familiar with most of the art history and studio faculty. I think UCSD is a great school and with a full ride it is a great option.

I will say this though, most of the painting faculty have gone and for the most part UCSD is not interested in painting unless it is a attached to a highly conceptual enterprise. If you are willing to perhaps move your painting practice in that direction then I would say UCSD might be a good choice.

[kewpies]

Wow thanks everyone!! this has given me a lot to think about & also brought up issues that have already been stewing in my head.

Yeah, I think for me the reason Calarts had been my top choice was because they don't seem totally against painting, & it would also give me a chance to see other types of work (since my background has been pretty traditional, I wanted to be exposed to new ways of working). I also liked the idea of being close to LA.

I was actually really surprised that UCSD responded so positively, especially after reading their mission statement. In fact, I only applied after a lot of encouragement from a friend, because I felt that they wouldn't be interested. I don't know if I would ever abandon painting. And my statement had more literary influences than anything else (i have a liberal arts background). So its a little shocking to hear that they would be so against painting -- but its good to hear about it now! I'll definitely have more questions for them when I visit next month.

Oh, and finally to all those warning about debt, I am taking those comments very seriously...

Thank again everyone, your comments have all been extremely helpful!! its definitely helped me organize my thoughts a bit

[littlenova]

Not too late to give Calarts your offer from UCSD or other competitive offers and ask if they can match it. I have seen it done before. If it comes from a solid program, they might actually consider it. Seriously...

[grad_wannabe]

Not too late to give Calarts your offer from UCSD or other competitive offers and ask if they can match it. I have seen it done before. If it comes from a solid program, they might actually consider it. Seriously...

This is an excellent point. Use the offer from SD as leverage.

If the school wants you, they will fight for you. It's very common. All the top schools fight over the top students.

Call or email CalArts and tell them you've been offered a full-ride at UCSD and that, though you've always dreamed of going to CalArts, you're afraid that in these times the economics are going to have a large impact on your decision. Ask if they can match the offer.

[brianmc]

Is CalArts really a painting school now? When I visited both schools in 1999 they had the exact opposite reputations. I wanted to go to UCSD because it was so beautiful in La Jolla and because there were a lot of people painting. I didn't apply to CalArts because no one was even using art supplies and I felt I would be really threatened there as a painter. My how things change when you are not paying attention.

UCSD gave you a full-ride for some reason. Find out what that reason is. Unless they just like to bring a traditional painter on each year to use as a whipping post, I don't think you can beat going to grad school for free. And it was 80 degrees in November when I visited San Diego. Couldn't have been above 78 in Valencia...brrrrrrr:)

But seriously, ask CalArts make a counter offer to the full-ride at UCSD. I almost guarantee they will give you something even if they don't match it.

[kewpies]

thanks so much you guys!!! i just sent out my email to calarts, now i just have to wait & see!

[crey01]

Is CalArts really a painting school now? When I visited both schools in 1999 they had the exact opposite reputations. I wanted to go to UCSD because it was so beautiful in La Jolla and because there were a lot of people painting. I didn't apply to CalArts because no one was even using art supplies and I felt I would be really threatened there as a painter. My how things change when you are not paying attention.

UCSD gave you a full-ride for some reason. Find out what that reason is. Unless they just like to bring a traditional painter on each year to use as a whipping post, I don't think you can beat going to grad school for free. And it was 80 degrees in November when I visited San Diego. Couldn't have been above 78 in Valencia...brrrrrrr:)

But seriously, ask CalArts make a counter offer to the full-ride at UCSD. I almost guarantee they will give you something even if they don't match it.

pretty sure UCSD, Like UCI and USC, gives out free rides to everyone, if you are excepted of course.

[kewpies]

pretty sure UCSD, Like UCI and USC, gives out free rides to everyone, if you are excepted of course.

Wow, now I feel really dumb because I honestly didn't know that! In any case, after talking to the folks at CalArts, they said that they don't match offers unless it's with a similar type of school (in size, private school, etc). They were very nice though, and suggested I take the full-ride offer at UCSD if money was an issue for me. (I was also asked: could I get any family support? interesting side note: when I asked current students about the money question, a couple of people very honestly said that they were being set up by parents, or through inheritance from grandparents.) They also set me up to talk with an alumni to ask questions about life after graduation. All in all, they were very honest and sympathetic. Which makes it that much harder, since I think I am leaning towards UCSD right now.

[littlenova]

Major bummer. Sorry, Kewpies...I didn't know UCSD did full rides for everyone either...I wonder what school they would consider comparable...?

I sure wish you the best of luck. I know it kinda stinks to have to make a decision based on finances. But, you are lucky...UCSD really is an amazing program.