Biostat & Computational Math & Statistics

[Statmaniac]

To be a faculty position in Statistics or Biostatistics, is it generally better to have a PhD degree in Statistics? Or if one has a biostatistics PhD degree, compared to those with who have statistics PhD degree, is it easier to obtain faculty position or post-doc position in the biostatistics department? Except for the top 5 departments in biostatistics(Harvard, UW, JHU, Michigan, UNC), I feel that it is very difficult to become a faculty in statistics. So my question would be if one chooses the biostatistics program which is not the one listed above, will I limit my career mainly to non-top tier biostatistics faculty position? I just have an impression that UPenn, Yale, and Columbia biostatistics departments are also very good and they also have many renowned faculties, who are cross-listed as stat/biostat faculty. If one gets advised by the renowned faculty, would that be better if one's ultimate goal is to stay in academia, hopefully at the top tier research institute?

I am personally attracted towards many renowned faculties at the Ivy League and the general school reputation over US News ranking. For example, programs like NCSU, ISU, I know they are good in statistics, but I don't think they are by no means way better in terms of the research than lower ranked Ivy league biostatistics programs. Do NCSU or ISU actually have better perception when it comes to faculty position hiring?

In addition, how is the perception upon newly designed computational math PhDs? For example, you can still do statistics research at UPenn or UChicago, Notre Dame in applied or computational math PhD programs. Are they also well regarded when it comes to faculty position hiring in stat or biostatistics?

Edited February 18, 2019 by Statmaniac

[bayessays]

It is somewhat harder to go from biostatistics to statistics than the other way around, but not impossible. Part of it is a selection problem - students in biostatistics generally do somewhat less theoretical research and enjoy the biostatistics environment. Another issue is the faculty. There might only be one or two professors in a biostatistics department doing the type of research that gets you a statistics job - publishing in JASA, not JAMA, is what matters for top tenure track statistics jobs.  If you go to Berkeley biostat and work with Van der Laan, you'll be in good shape, but if you want a job in a statistics department, you should probably go to a statistics department. 

If you go to a non-top 5 biostat school, you're likely going to end up at a biostatistics school ranked lower than yours. A Columbia biostat PhD has virtually no chance at becoming a professor at a top 40 statistics department, unless you somehow got super lucky and managed to form a relationship with one of their top statistics professors and then published with them.  It's hard to bet on forming such a relationship - often the statistics and biostatistics departments at schools have almost no interaction. 

Do not get a computational math PhD if you want to be a statistician. You are limiting your future marketing of yourself to a much smaller niche. I would also suggest getting a PhD in statistics, not biostatistics, unless you actually want to be a biostatistician, but that matters much less.

[Stat Assistant Professor]

Your publication record is ultimately what matters more than what your degree is in. For example, Veronika Rockova at University of Chicago and David Dunson at Duke University both have PhD's in Biostatistics, but they are now consistently publishing in top journals like JASA, Annals of Statistics, etc. So it doesn't really matter if your degree is in Biostatistics or Statistics as long as your work is good and well-respected.

Most Biostatistics departments are happy to hire both Biostatistics and Statistics postdocs or faculty, but at least one paper in a venue like Biometrics, BMC Bioinformatics, or JASA Case Studies and Applications is needed in order to be a competitive job candidate. The very top-tier Biostatistics departments in the country may also want to see publications in Biometrika, JRSS-B, or JASA Theory and Methods (which tend to fall more on the theoretical side).

Statistics departments will also hire those with Biostatistics PhDs, but some may only consider job candidates with Biostatistics PhD's if they have published one or two papers in a more theoretical journal like JASA Theory and Methods, Annals of Statistics, Annals of Probability, Biometrika. I think University of Washington Biostatistics PhD students and faculty have a very good track record of publishing in both 'applied' and theoretical venues, so there are a handful of UW Biostatistics PhD's who end up as faculty in Statistics departments.

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Edited February 18, 2019 by Stat PhD Now Postdoc

[Stat Assistant Professor]

That said, it probably is harder to go from Biostatistics to a Statistics department if your work was all applied and in stuff like clinical trials, statistical genetics, or medical imaging. These are very important areas of research, no doubt, but Ithese graduates will have a much easier time getting employed by a Biostat department than a Statistics department.

[omicrontrabb]

Along the same lines as the original question, I'm interested in eventually getting a tenure track faculty position at a decent university. I've been admitted to a top tier biostat PhD program (U of Washington) and a decent stat PhD program (Ohio State). I don't have much of a preference between biostat and stat, but I don't solely want to do applied work. Is it better to go to UW since it's a more highly regarded department in general?

[Stat Assistant Professor]

19 minutes ago, omicrontrabb said:

Along the same lines as the original question, I'm interested in eventually getting a tenure track faculty position at a decent university. I've been admitted to a top tier biostat PhD program (U of Washington) and a decent stat PhD program (Ohio State). I don't have much of a preference between biostat and stat, but I don't solely want to do applied work. Is it better to go to UW since it's a more highly regarded department in general?

UW Biostatistics is very strong in both theory and applications. I've seen some faculty like Daniela Witten and Ali Shojaie consistently publishing in top statistics (not just biostat) journals like JASA, JRSS-B, and Biometrika. OSU has some strong faculty; it seems to be more of a Bayesian department and strong in particular areas like spatial statistics.

[bayessays]

Stat PhD now Postdoc's assessment is dead on. Ohio State is a good department, but the ceiling is higher if you get through chance to work with those top people at UW. You will definitely not only do applied work there, especially if you actually want to do more theoretical work - there is plenty of opportunity.

Edited February 19, 2019 by bayessays

[Stat Assistant Professor]

It seems like the top tier Biostatistics programs place more emphasis on theory. UW Biostat requires a semester of measure theory and JHU Biostatist requires a full year of measure-theoretic probability. One of my postdoc PI's got his PhD in Biostatistics from Hopkins and did his PhD thesis on large sample theory for boundary problems in multiple hypothesis testing.

It also depends on what your research is, though. If you did genomics/statistical genetics, precision medicine, or something like that at UW or JHU, it might not position you as well for a faculty position in a Statistics department (as opposed to Biostat) than if you did something like causal inference or something less specifically related to public health/biology like high-dimensional machine learning.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Stat PhD Now Postdoc

[Statmaniac]

3 hours ago, Stat PhD Now Postdoc said:

It seems like the top tier Biostatistics programs place more emphasis on theory. UW Biostat requires a semester of measure theory and JHU Biostatist requires a full year of measure-theoretic probability. One of my postdoc PI's got his PhD in Biostatistics from Hopkins and did his PhD thesis on large sample theory for boundary problems in multiple hypothesis testing.

It also depends on what your research is, though. If you did genomics/statistical genetics, precision medicine, or something like that at UW or JHU, it might not position you as well for a faculty position in a Statistics department (as opposed to Biostat) than if you did something like causal inference or something less specifically related to public health/biology like high-dimensional machine learning.

Does the coursework also matter in faculty hiring? Or are you just saying since both UW and JHU require measure theoretic probabilities, compared to other low ranked programs, they tend to produce students who often do theoretical works?

[Stat Assistant Professor]

1 hour ago, Statmaniac said:

Does the coursework also matter in faculty hiring? Or are you just saying since both UW and JHU require measure theoretic probabilities, compared to other low ranked programs, they tend to produce students who often do theoretical works?

No, courses and grades do not matter one bit in hiring. In order of importance for faculty  hiring for an R1 or R2 institution: 1) publication record, 2) recommendation letters, 3) teaching experience (not always necessary to have, especially not in Biostatistics). For hiring at liberal arts colleges and regional schools, that order will be flipped.

I am just saying that JHU and UW Biostatistics resemble "traditional" statistics departments in that they expect their students to have a firm foundation in theoretical probability and mathematical statistics so that they can conduct research in theoretical statistics if they choose to. In contrast, lower ranked Biostatistics programs might not require things like measure theory, because their students are probably going to conduct research exclusively in more applied areas and target publications in journals like Biometrics, Statistics in Medicine, or BMC Bioinformatics, which don't need much (if any) theory to get published.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Stat PhD Now Postdoc

[Statmaniac]

6 hours ago, Stat PhD Now Postdoc said:

No, courses and grades do not matter one bit in hiring. In order of importance for faculty  hiring for an R1 or R2 institution: 1) publication record, 2) recommendation letters, 3) teaching experience (not always necessary to have, especially not in Biostatistics). For hiring at liberal arts colleges and regional schools, that order will be flipped.

I am just saying that JHU and UW Biostatistics resemble "traditional" statistics departments in that they expect their students to have a firm foundation in theoretical probability and mathematical statistics so that they can conduct research in theoretical statistics if they choose to. In contrast, lower ranked Biostatistics programs might not require things like measure theory, because their students are probably going to conduct research exclusively in more applied areas and target publications in journals like Biometrics, Statistics in Medicine, or BMC Bioinformatics, which don't need much (if any) theory to get published.

May I ask your opinion on Computational Mathematics PhD Program? Do you also agree with bayessays? Or if I work closely with statistics professor and publish most of journals in statistics, would the field where I get PhD degree no longer matter?

[Stat Assistant Professor]

13 hours ago, Statmaniac said:

May I ask your opinion on Computational Mathematics PhD Program? Do you also agree with bayessays? Or if I work closely with statistics professor and publish most of journals in statistics, would the field where I get PhD degree no longer matter?

If you are interested in Statistics, it would make more sense to me to go to a Statistics department. But there are PhD's in other subjects like Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, and Mathematics/Applied Math who eventually become faculty in Statistics departments -- some pretty renowned ones as well, like Michael Jordan (PhD in Cognitive Science) and John Lafferty (PhD in pure mathematics, focusing on geometry).

Depends mainly on your research area and what journals you can publish in. If you publish in good statistics journals and related journals/conferences like the IEEE pubs or NIPS, the degree field itself is not so important.