Chicago MAPH - thoughts?

[Guest whizzo]

Advice? Well, the best advice possible would be to talk to Jay and Candice (the program directors) a lot, and really get to know your preceptor. They give pretty good advice. My preceptor (PhD student in a discipline similar to yours, a cross between a TA and advisor) was absolutely AWESOME and had a lot of good advice when it came to class selection. If you don't have the greatest preceptor... some people are unlucky... then find another one with similar interests and ask him/her. Everyone's helpful, and you're never completely on your own if you don't want to be.

More advice: ALWAYS go to MAPH functions-- all of the get-togethers and pub nights. It's important to make friends with others in the department, especially when things get difficult. This may sound lame, but it's so true-- there were way too many people who cut themselves off from the other students and then just plain disappeared over the course of the year.

Advice for thesis-writing: Take time to relax, and make detailed schedules for yourself. There will be a lot of deadlines about mid-way through the year when you need to get an advisor, do foundational research, and write up a prospectus, and mark my words-- it will STRESS EVERYONE OUT. I only survived by making a concrete schedule for myself, complete with times to exercise and relax as well as time limits on my research and study time. I've never before had the experience of being in a library at 9:00 on a Saturday, then suddenly looking at the clock and realizing it was 6:00 pm, and I hadn't eaten or taken a substantial break all day. Not cool. Don't do it-- you'll end up getting a nasty sickness and will stop sleeping and then crazy, bad things could happen.

In my program, there was a student who got so caught up in everything he/she began to sleep in the library! I'm not kidding-- this person found a secluded spot where the security guards didn't go at night, and the student would stay in the library for days on end without leaving. Yeah... creepy. Some drastic measures had to be taken to help the person, and it wasn't pretty.

[Guest guest]

Sleeping in the library! Damn. That better not end up being me. What kinds of "drastic measures" were taken? I'm curious.

You offer good advice. I will remember to keep connected with fellow students, and to reserve time to exercise and just take care of myself in general. And given all the deadlines arising at the same time in the winter and spring quarters, I plan to forumlate a provisional thesis topic over the summer so that I arrive with something for which I can seek feedback. I'm excited (but my bank account weeps).

Is there any support in place if for some reason you don't finish the program requirements in time? How is that viewed (not that I'm planning on doing it; I just want to know what kind of attitude the program has towards situations like that)? Also, are there opportunities to get feedback on drafts of seminar papers? Do MAPH students, in addition to thesis workshops, form writing groups? Or get to share works-in-progress in the various graduate workshops?

[thomasf]

The pressure sounds intense. There's no way I'm paying for the privelege of being stressed out trying to compose a brilliant thesis in my first year, just so I can have a shot at a phd program the next year. Too many italics in that scenario. The faculty in my discipline at Chicago are brilliant, certainly, but I don't have that kind of money or time to spend proving to others that I'm capable. Please god let my wait list come through. Otherwise I'm going to the New School or trying again next year.

[Guest guest]

Thomasf, why the New School? Are you planning on taking grad courses there, or enrolling in a doctoral program?

Yeah, I feel a little intimidated by the one-year aspect. I don't know what to make of that, what it indicates about where U Chicago places MAPH students in general in the academic hierarchy. Does one year mean that we are accepted as people who are very close to being at the doctoral level and just need a chance to polish up a few things, or that we are people in whom they don't want to invest a whole lot of time? I agree with you that one year is an awfully short time to produce a thesis that could pass muster in a 2- to 3-year, departmental MA, where one has a full year to absorb the discourse, solidify one's interests in relatin to it, and improve one's argumentative writing skills before beginning one's thesis research. The one-year format does seem to put one at a disadvantage, particularly when the MA will be judged by doctoral programs, most likely, as a disciplinary, multi-year MA. That's why I am curious to know from Whizzo what measures the program has in place for helping students who don't finish everything within one year. Or, even if they do finish, whether the writing advisor, one's preceptor, or the thesis advisor is in a frame of mind given the programs imiplicit purpose to go over multiple revisions of one's writing sample after graduation. It seems like MAPH should have a post-graduate center for MAPH students, that helps them with their doctoral applications at a time when they're not so busy with coursework and focusing exclusively on their SoP and writing sample.

[thomasf]

Yes, the MAPH seems to be about paying in extremely hard work and lots of money for the stamp of approval from a prestigious university. Of course, the prestige isn't empty. As I said, the faculty in my discipline at least are at the top of their field.

I am considering the NS, certainly over Chicago, because the MA is two years, and they have offered me a 50 percent tuition scholarship and are discussing more. Although that is not a lot compared to a phd program which would almost certainly be fully funded with stipend, the program is still very good for what I want to do, which is a fairly uncommon (it seems) mix of heavily political and continental philsophy. Also the MA is non-terminal, meaning that I am likely to be offered phd candidacy when I complete the ma program, pending my performance. There will also be more money to be had at that time.

All in all I'll have to work very hard as well, and if I get accepted at my wait list option, then I'll take it without hesitation (unless NS considers a full tuition waiver, which is highly unlikely). But I am also becoming highly allergic to some parts of academia which whizzo mentions in his post, specifically unrepentant specialization/pretentious devotion to a particular discipline. I feel that the New School is a much more open academic environment that involves (at least) significant cooperation between the political science and philsoophy departments. Of course, this has its downside but I believe in the end I'd rather have to deal with a less rigorous but well intentioned chort. John Dewey said that academia has become proportionately less influential as it has become more independent, and I think that is now becoming true for disciplines within academia as well--at least in regard to the humanities. On this last point at least I agree whole heartedly with the mission of the MAPH program. It is an unfortuante fact however that anything even whispering interdisciplinary is reinterpreted by academic committees as meaning 'not serious'.

Sorry for going on so long about htis; obvious I ahve been doing some thinking since the rejections started rolling in. ;X

[Guest whizzo]

Actually, MAPH is very good about helping students finish, whatever the timeline. I have SEVERAL friends in the program that either finished late over the summer, or are finishing now. They would always tell us that they preferred we finished on time, but there were certainly no horrible drawbacks to finishing late.

The thing is, no one rushed you too much-- there was an emphasis on completing work that was very polished. There are multiple rewrites you are supposed to do, which was great-- and many thesis advisors actually WANTED to help in the rewrite process, looking at multiple drafts and troubleshooting sections. There are numerous MAPH meetings with the writing advisor, powerpoint presentations on how to go about writing (starting, drafting, and finishing), and the writing advisor is always on hand for one-on-one help.

If want to learn how to write great research papers and come out with a great thesis, MAPH would be one of the best progams to join.

And your idea about a post-MAPH center would be absolutely awesome, but it wouldn't really jive with their commitments, which are basically to foster the building of research and writing techniques.

And I don't blame you, thomasf. It's a LOT of money for a LOT of stress.

[Guest guest]

Okay, Whizzo. I am now fully convinced, thanks to your comments, that MAPH is the right next step for me (though I, too, understand, thomasf, why it wouldn't be a good next step for someone else and the NS program sounds very interesting...wish I'd known about it). Though I do intend to finish on time, I also want to go into this zoom of a year knowing that if I need some extra time to produce the caliber of work I feel will make me eligible for all the doctoral programs from which I was rejected, I can take that time and not feel I am a colossal loser. I'm pretty pumped about going, now, actually. It sounds like MAPH--and the U of C as a whole--provides rigor and challenge AND collegial, interested support (if not financially, eiyiyiyi), and that's exactly what I need right now. I hate pretentiousness, too, thomasf, but I've come up with a motto for academia that I think is apt: "Where there are ideas, there is ego." Meaning, no matter what, if we want to engage in intellectual debate and discussion, we will have to deal with people's defenses and insecurities in the form of pointed, vicious efforts towards one-upmanship. Still, there are institutions where that is more the order of the day than at other institutions, so we can expect to find pockets of collegiality, even true camaraderie, here and there.

Thanks, Whizzo! Any further advice, anecdotes, even grumblings are welcome! I really hope you get a straight answer regarding why you were not admitted to the Ph.D. program. And I hope the library overnighter is okay now. Here are some things I'm curious about: if there is a prof or course I simply HAVE to take, what is it and why is the prof/course so amazing, and how early in the quarter did you begin researching and writing your seminar papers? I've never been in the quarter system and am terrified of having only 10 weeks to complete everything, as opposed to 14. Also, I am considering living in Hyde Park, in university housing. If you know anything about that, or know of other areas of Chicago that are better/cheaper while still relatively conveniently located in relation to U of C (by public transportation), I'd love to hear. Thanks so much.

[Guest whizzo]

Yey! Sounds like you aren't the type that's faint of heart. Well, as for recommendations for classes, it totally depends on what discipline you're in. Once you're on campus, you'll hear the buzz about certain classes and profs, and if you have questions, the preceptors, like I said before, are great.

The quarter system isn't bad. I hardly noticed the difference between quarters and semesters, actually.

As for living in Hyde Park, well, you can go to the Chicago section elsewhere in the forum, and they really go over the pros and cons of living there. You might have heard all the talk about Hyde Park being a little sketchy at night, and all the neighborhoods around there can be pretty dangerous. (Take my word for it-- I've lived in Chicago for awhile, and we all know to NEVER EVER EVER wander too far south of campus! Oooh, it's not so good.) I, personally, didn't like Hyde Park very much... it's a really nice place to be during the day (good restaurants, bookstores, etc.), but it totally shuts down after dark. Almost zero nightlife. Also, public transportation isn't very well connected. But the other option is living in a different neighborhood, and that's a pain, too, mostly because any neighborhood you'll want to live in is a lot farther away, and it will take 50 minutes plus to get to campus using public transportation. This often means taking a bus, or transferring from the El to the bus, which can be a huge pain. I commuted to Hyde Park from Wrigleyville, but I had a car, so it took me less than 25 minutes to get there via the outer drive (Lake Shore Drive, or hwy 41, for you non-Chicagoans).

So if you have a car, that's great, but it also creates more problems. You have to have somewhere to park it at night-- and if you live in Lincoln Park or Lakeview, that can be a bit of a trick. If you want more info on parking, if you have a car, let me know.

So, if you don't have a car, I'd suggest living in Hyde Park. It's not terrible, by any means. Especially if you make friends. And it's only a year... it's not like you're signing your life away to live in Hell, Michigan or something.

[thomasf]

Good luck to you mystery guest. I appreciate your perspective, and I'm sure your cohorts will be on the main fantastic. I know this since I was almost one of them

Out of curiousity, what's your discipline...? --must be either politics or philosophy if you would have considered the new school...

[Guest guest]

Whizzo--thanks again for the helpful info! I don't have a car; I don't even have a driver's permit as I am 100% city born and bred. And frankly, I'm trying to go as long as possible without getting a license, and longer still without a car! Thanks for the heads up on all south of the university; I think I'll stay in Hyde Park since I really don't want to have a long commute every day, unless I can...I dunno...listen to Foucault on my iPod along the way, or 'talk' drafts of my papers into a mini tape recorder (hmmm, not a bad idea, actually). :wink: You're right; it's such a short time that I really don't have to find the perfect place to live, so the lack of activity in Hyde Park won't be too much of a disappointment.

I'm glad to know that the quarters don't seem to go by faster than semesters. Except for my anxiety about facing multiple seminar papers at each quarter's end, PLUS the thesis, I look forward to having three rounds of classes rather than only two--my guess is that it shakes things up a bit more.

And Thomasf--good luck to you, too! I'm from NYC, and though I am in English and aspire fervently to go on to an English PhD, I know the New School has a reputation (in addition to such an interesting history) for excellent, rigorous, indisciplinary education across all disciplines, and I think I've heard it's very strong in philosophy, no? I was interested at one time (while still a BA student) in one of their (terminal) master's programs, but they discontinued it well before I could ever have applied. That's great that there's the possibility of being invited on to the doctoral program on the basis of your MA work; certainly it puts you in a much less precarious position in relation to the university than I will be as a MAPH student in relation to the English department. I hope you have a wonderful experience there, if you decide to go!

One more question, Whizzo: I know there are readings assigned in advance for the colloquium in the fall, but besides that, isi there one work to which people perpetually alluded in all your classes that I should read before attending? Is there ANYTHING I can do between now and September to make my MAPH year a little easier?

[Guest whizzo]

Well, let's see... as for reading, the colloqium is VERY VERY heavy in Hegel, and it was very difficult reading and even more difficult to correctly conceptualize. Even worse was Lacan. Candace is a Lacanian through and through, and toward the end, everything will be read through Lacan. I think you would do yourself a favor to pick up a few intro to Lacan or Hegel books if you aren't familiar with either, that is, if you have the drive to. It's not TOO important, seeing as how the lectures are already meant to be an intro, but it's difficult-- so you could use all the help you can get!

As for reading that comes up a lot in other classes, I'd say themes of Hegel, Lacan, and Heidegger come up often. Not that people in the seminars always quote them... sometimes, yes... but all these philosophies will blend in together, and then EVERYTHING, even brushing your teeth in the morning, will become a Heideggerian event! It will be hammered into your head THAT MUCH.

As for your seminar paper fear, I wouldn't worry too much. The preceptors really advise you on classes, and they'll discourage you from taking more than one advanced seminar your first quarter, simply because the colloqium is enough work already. There are a lot of great graduate lectures, and they don't want you to get too swamped.

Also, as you will see, the majority of MAPHers are in English. I don't know if this is a good or bad thing, since I wasn't among those masses.

Umm... oh yeah, and do a really close reading of the advance readings, and keep in mind that you will be doing very in-depth philosophical readings of these texts. I'm not sure if it will be the same readings I did. My guess is that they won't be. But to give you an example: we read Poe through Lacan, highlighting racial elements. That sort of thing. Since you're in English, you're probably used to this sort of thing... at least to some extent.

And thomasf: good luck on that waitlist, and the New School!

[Guest guest]

Oh wow, thank you so much for this advice. So brushing my teeth is now going to become Brushing-My-Teeth-in-the-World, huh? I'm actually (cursorily) familiar with Hegel (master-slave dialectic), Heidegger (the yin-yang of readiness-to-hand and presence-at-hand, or something like that :? Here, rather than be "lit up" for me, all is hazy and uncertain), and Lacan (the mirror stage, the real/imaginary/symbolic, and the phallus being the 'splicer' of the imaginary and entryway into the symbolic, where the real alienated hell and horror of human existence begins). I strongly suspect I won't be making my way--not yet, anyway--through Being and Time, but I may as well read the Phenomenology in its entirety, which is what I've been meaning to do for a while. And I just recently bought Elizabeth GRosz's Lacan: A Feminist Introduction, so hopefully that'll help a bit. Any other recommendations are welcome.

Ooh, another thing: I'm 26. I've always mostly had older friends. Are the majority of MAPH students around my age, or younger? Not that there's TOO big a difference between 26 and 22, but in my experience there are SOME differences--not intellectually, but in how people might choose to express themselves socially.

[Guest whizzo]

Woo! You got a laugh out of me on the "Brushing-My-Teeth-in-the-World" comment!

You seem to be pretty up on the basics already. I wouldn't worry about doing any extra reading right now... you'll probably be reading portions of the Phenomenology for class (I had to), and they try to really set down the basics for Lacan. It sounds like you're leaps and bounds ahead of many of the students entering, so you can totally relax. Oh-- and the Grosz book has sounded interesting to me... I opted for some Slavoj Zizek texts, myself... though that isn't terribly related to MAPH Lacanian topics, and more to personal interests...

As for age, well, there a HUGE range. I knew people who were fresh out of undergrad--22, 21... and I knew people who had worked for awhile and wanted to get back into academia--30, 35... Most people seemed to be around 24 or so. One of my best friends from the program was 33. I wouldn't worry about the age thing at all.

Oh-- I just thought of one thing that may help you. Buy a VERY STURDY UMBRELLA. I had two turn inside out while I've lived in Chicago. Oh, that wind!

[Guest guest]

I've been meaning to read some Zizek for quite a while now. I really don't know where to begin given the man comes out with, like, a book a year. Any recommendations? The thing for me is that I'm not really a film person, and neither am I a politics person, but I am interested in any work that illuminates the machinery by which we become constituted as subjects, and how that machinery in turn enmeshes the subject in a tense lattice of meaning pathways.

Good to hear about the range in ages that comprise the MAPH cohort! I'm so glad you are on this forum, because you are making what at first seemed like a paltry option now seem like a first-rate opportunity. I'm looking forward to the Campus Days; I've never even been to Chicago so I'm eager to poke around the city at large a bit in the very short amount of time I'll have.

Bah to "sturdy umbrella"--it's an oxymoron! Several years ago I made it a personal mission to procure an umbrella that wouldn't whomp inside out at the first hint of breeze; I bought all kinds of fancy umbrellas promising all kinds of wonderful things and NONE of them panned out. I very much hope academia works out for me in the long run, and I believe it will, but if not I think I can feel I made a useful contribution to humankind if I design, patent, and market what I will call an "Uber-brella" that can withstand any kind of weather. For now, however, having temporarily given up on umbrellas, I have a gortex jacket that is 100% wind- and water-proof (it's been thoroughly tested). I have heard about the awful winters in Chicago, which is another reason why I am likely to pursue housing as near to campus as possible.

[Guest whizzo]

SPEAKING OF ZIZEK... did you notice that there's a documentary about him out right now? It's called Zizek!. Heh heh.

The gortex jacket will be a lifesaver!

[Guest guest]

I am so utterly NOT going to be watching that documentary (I looked it up). While intriguing in some respects (for instance, Zizek's admission that he cannot enjoy anything because he continually feels compelled to read and the psychological implications one can draw from this), it basically seems like a giant orgy of misguided hero worship, which I find particularly gross in academia, I don't know why. Can't Zizek take Foucault's stance on such matters? Didn't Foucault say something like, "You can know me through my writings" and "I can change my mind if I want to"? Nevertheless, the voyeur in me feels tingles of curiosity...but I think, if I rushed out to a screening, my self-regard would diminish a few notches!

I think I'll stick to reading Zizek

[Guest guest]

Whoops...the above was supposed to read, "I think I'll stick to reading Zizek."

[smithigans.wake]

Thanks, everyone, for your insight and comments. I think I've pretty well decided to accept the offer. The deciding factor for me was one of the five program options one can pursue within the MAPH, the writing option. (I read about these options months ago, but somehow I forgot about them until just a few days ago, when I encountered them again on the MAPH website.) I think I'd like to pursue creative non-fiction in the writing track. The money question still worries me a bit, but I feel more secure accepting the offer now that I have this focus. This way, I'll have a more definite goal with the degree, rather than just taking a hodgepodge of fun classes without any idea of the career I'll pursue afterwards. I feel like I can better justify the expense with this goal in mind.

I plan to be at the Campus Days events next week, so perhaps I'll see some of you there.

[Guest coffeechick]

Would anyone take the MAPH, if you got a fully-funded offer (and stipend) from a university ranked around 55 or 60?

[Guest My Two Cents]

Would anyone take the MAPH, if you got a fully-funded offer (and stipend) from a university ranked around 55 or 60?

Sure thing. I did the MAPSS (similar to MAPH) program a few years ago (for political philosophy) and I wish I had gone to a more personalized, but less highly-rated school for my M.A.

Class sizes at the U of C were ridiculously large and I feel I missed out on some of the more important aspects of an M.A. education, i.e., small seminar courses, access to faculty, real mentorship opportunities, T.A-ships, etc. I was plagued with feelings of inadequacy—both of my own devices and far too often through reactions to MAPSS students from faculty, graduate students, and even undergrads. Also, because it is a one-year M.A., there is virtually no time to develop a meaningful project unless you have very specific ideas about what you want to get from the program.

I guess your decision will depend on what you plan to do with your M.A. If you plan on stopping at that point and getting a job, then certainly a masters from the U of C will be worth its weight in gold. However, if you are seriously considering applying to doctoral programs, then know that many top programs do not offer terminal MAs, thus receiving an MA from less notable school will probably not really disadvantage your Ph.D. application.

Just my 2cents.

[Guest phronesis]

I am so utterly NOT going to be watching that documentary (I looked it up). While intriguing in some respects (for instance, Zizek's admission that he cannot enjoy anything because he continually feels compelled to read and the psychological implications one can draw from this), it basically seems like a giant orgy of misguided hero worship, which I find particularly gross in academia, I don't know why. Can't Zizek take Foucault's stance on such matters? Didn't Foucault say something like, "You can know me through my writings" and "I can change my mind if I want to"? Nevertheless, the voyeur in me feels tingles of curiosity...but I think, if I rushed out to a screening, my self-regard would diminish a few notches!

I think I'll stick to reading Zizek

The Zizek documentary is loads of fun - I went into thinking I wouldn't enjoy it, but it really humorous in a pseudo-intellectual sort of way. The man is seriously and obviously coked up throughout the whole thing. You can even tell that they stop because he is coming down. I'm not really into Zizek, so I don't know how I would feel about the documentary if I read any of this work, but being familar with public intellectuals first hand I though the doc was really interesting and dead on.

[Guest Bookbaker]

Did anybody go to M.A.P.H.'s campus days this weekend? Impressions?

[cspoon97]

I am interested in the Creative Writing portion of MAPH and have no interest in pursuing a PhD.

Anyone have any information on the MAPH Creative Writing option?

And are admissions to MAPH insanely competitive? I dont seem to hear of anyone getting rejected.

[Minnesotan]

Don't they let everyone in, with the understanding that you're going to fund all of their PhD students by means of your over-inflated tuition?

[grifter]

I got the MAPH offer two years ago. I went out and bought my first and only Powerball Ticket. I didn't win. I had to tell MAPH sorry.

But seriously--if I remember correctly, one of the MAPH directors, Jay (assuming that I am not forgetting his name, and assuming that he is still a director) told me that in 2005, MAPH reviewed about 650 applications, from people who both applied directly to the program and from graduate committees who forward "promising candidates." Again, if I am not contriving the numbers, I believe they make about 100 offers for admission to MAPH, most of which are entirely unfunded, as was mine.

So, no, it isn't "insanely" competitive, per se. The issue, at least for most, is what Minnesotan alluded to. I was working as a jackhammer operator at the time of my acceptance, and MAPH carried a price tag that I couldn't justify. I also heard firsthand accounts about how some of the instructors / full-time PhD candidates looked at MAPHers as intellectual pariahs. Whether or not that is true, I am not sure.