Profile Eval Fall 2021: MS Statistics

[soaact]

Hi Everyone. After graduating from college, I went straight to working as an actuary for 5 years. I'm trying to come back into academia to teach, so I'll be pursuing a Masters degree. I do not plan on pursuing a PhD at this time.

I did well in college, but I'm concerned that it's been too long since I've been in school and that my grades wouldn't weigh as much as they normally would. I'm not sure what else I could offer besides good grades and hopefully good GRE scores. Because of this, I don't have a good sense of which schools I should target, but I would like to shoot for the best I can. Since I plan to teach, I think it would be better if the program isn't too heavily focused on application. I'm also hoping for some funding, although I know it's a crapshoot for masters...

Undergrad Institution: large public university (USN Top 20 statistics program)
Major(s): Statistics and Mathematics
GPA: 4.0

Type of Student: Asian domestic male

GRE General Test: will be taking soon

 

Applying to: Master's in Statistics 

 

Research Experience: Nothing substantial in academia, but my work required me to research and self-teach programming and insurance/statistical knowledge

Letters of Recommendation: Stats professor, supervisor from work, Math professor; I expect the first two recommendation letters to be strong but my math professor doesn't know me very well.

Math/Statistics Grades (these were all undergrad level courses): Calc I/II (A's through AP courses), Multivariate Calculus (A), Differential Equations proof-based (A), Linear Algebra proof-based (A), Abstract Algebra (A), Intro to Real Analysis (A), Stochastic Processes (A), Regression Analysis (A), Theory of Probability (A), Financial Statistics (A), Non-Parametric Statistics (A), Statistical Experimental Design (A), Intro to Programming - Java (A)

Planning on Applying to: NC State, UW, UM-Ann Arbor, Texas A&M, UW-Madison, UGA

 

If you have any advice especially in regards to the schools, I would really appreciate it. Thanks!

Edited August 23, 2020 by pcact

[Stat Assistant Professor]

With your perfect 4.0 from your undergrad, I anticipate that you will be admitted to every Statistics MS program you apply to. It's no big deal if you have been out of school for awhile. However, before you start your program, make sure to review Calculus I-III (you can skip any derivatives/integrals dealing with trigonometry, washer/disk methods, polar coordinates, arc length, and curvature) and maybe some linear algebra.

The main things you need to review from Calc I-III are differentiation and integration, including things like the chain rule, u-substitution, integration by parts, partial derivatives, and multiple integration.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Stat Assistant Professor

[soaact]

3 hours ago, Stat Assistant Professor said:

With your perfect 4.0 from your undergrad, I anticipate that you will be admitted to every Statistics MS program you apply to. It's no big deal if you have been out of school for awhile. However, before you start your program, make sure to review Calculus I-III (you can skip any derivatives/integrals dealing with trigonometry, washer/disk methods, polar coordinates, arc length, and curvature) and maybe some linear algebra.

The main things you need to review from Calc I-III are differentiation and integration, including things like the chain rule, u-substitution, integration by parts, partial derivatives, and multiple integration.

Thank you for the response, @Stat Assistant Professor! If I were to go for the PhD route instead, do you think I would still have a good chance at getting into those schools, given that I don't have much academic research experience?

[Stat Assistant Professor]

Yes, if you were to apply to PhD programs, you could probably get into a number of good programs ranked 15-40 by USNWR... possibly top 15 as well, but admissions becomes a lot more competitive and even perfect 4.0 GPA students get rejected by those schools.

Honestly, if there is even a remote chance that you want to do a PhD, I would just apply to PhD programs. Your profile is good enough for them, and if you decide not to go the PhD route, you can leave with a Masters. I will say, though, that if your goal is to teach at the college level, it may be preferable to get a PhD and then look for jobs at teaching-oriented schools (i.e. SLACs and non-doctoral granting universities). 

[soaact]

@Stat Assistant Professor Thank you, this is so helpful!

One thing I should have been clearer in my course list is that "Intro to Real Analysis" was a prep course to Real Analysis. It was essentially a proof-based calculus course. I took it expecting to take Real Analysis in the following semester but ended up not due to schedule conflict, which didn't seem like a big deal at that time. Do you think this would be a deal breaker, and would it drastically change the list of reach/target schools I should go for? I'm thinking of asking my math professor to mention this briefly in the recommendation letter...

Edited August 25, 2020 by soaact

[Stat Assistant Professor]

7 hours ago, soaact said:

@Stat Assistant Professor Thank you, this is so helpful!

One thing I should have been clearer in my course list is that "Intro to Real Analysis" was a prep course to Real Analysis. It was essentially a proof-based calculus course. I took it expecting to take Real Analysis in the following semester but ended up not due to schedule conflict, which didn't seem like a big deal at that time. Do you think this would be a deal breaker, and would it drastically change the list of reach/target schools I should go for? I'm thinking of asking my math professor to mention this briefly in the recommendation letter...

Just "Intro to Real Analysis" (like convergence of sequences/series, continuity and convergence of functions, Riemann integral and differentiation) should suffice. I'm not sure what the distinction is between that and real analysis is -- unless the non-intro real analysis you're referring to is just a second semester of analysis with more advanced topics like metric space topology, Fourier analysis, etc. or a class of measure theory and Lebesgue integration. The latter is not needed for PhD admissions in Statistics. 

Anyway, if I were you, I would apply mainly to PhD programs in the top 30. Maybe pick 2-3 of the top 15 schools, a bunch in the range of 15-30, and 2 below that just to be safe.

[soaact]

On 8/25/2020 at 7:38 AM, Stat Assistant Professor said:

Just "Intro to Real Analysis" (like convergence of sequences/series, continuity and convergence of functions, Riemann integral and differentiation) should suffice. I'm not sure what the distinction is between that and real analysis is -- unless the non-intro real analysis you're referring to is just a second semester of analysis with more advanced topics like metric space topology, Fourier analysis, etc. or a class of measure theory and Lebesgue integration. The latter is not needed for PhD admissions in Statistics. 

Anyway, if I were you, I would apply mainly to PhD programs in the top 30. Maybe pick 2-3 of the top 15 schools, a bunch in the range of 15-30, and 2 below that just to be safe.

 Hi! I understand that the "Top 15" and "15-30" are just rough guidelines, but are you referring to the USN Statistics rankings including the Biostats programs?

Edited August 26, 2020 by soaact

[Stat Assistant Professor]

2 hours ago, soaact said:

 Hi! I understand that the "Top 15" and "15-30" are just rough guidelines, but are you referring to the USN Statistics rankings including the Biostats programs?

I was referring to the USNWR top 30 rankings inclusive of the biostat programs, but my comments were mainly concerning the statistics PhD programs.

If you are interested in biostatistics, then you could apply to those too. Actually, if you applied to Biostat PhD programs (and not just Stat), you would probably be able to get into those ranked in the top 10 -- so inclusive of biostat, you would be able to get into more of the top 15 programs. The reason is because unlike Statistics PhD programs, admissions for Biostat is clearly skewed in favor of domestic applicants (the top Biostat programs only admit a few international students every cycle). Your math background would also be especially appealing to a Biostatistics PhD program.

Now, if your ultimate goal is to teach at the college level, then I think you are more likely to get the requisite teaching experience as instructor of record in a Statistics program than a biostat one. PhD students who are looking for jobs at teaching institutions (e.g. PUIs) must have taught at least one course as an instructor of record to be seriously considered for tenure-track jobs at these types of schools (many will ask you to submit a teaching portfolio/teaching evaluations as part of the application). I don't have firsthand experience with Biostat PhD programs -- my degree is from a Stat department, so I am not sure if Biostat PhD students are able to get this kind of teaching experience... based on my postdoctoral experience in a Biostat department, the PhD students were overwhelmingly supported through research assistantships. But Stat PhD students routinely have the opportunity to teach undergrad stat courses.

(Addendum: if any prospective Biostatistics PhD students are interested in getting jobs at teaching institutions, they may be able to do so if they do a visiting assistant professorship where they can shore up some teaching experience)

Edited August 26, 2020 by Stat Assistant Professor

[bayessays]

I have seen quite a few biostat PhDs getting jobs at undergrad teaching-oriented institutions. But if you want to teach, be aware that many/most biostatistics programs do not give you the opportunity to teach undergrads, if you get to teach at all. 

[Stat Assistant Professor]

Just now, bayessays said:

I have seen quite a few biostat PhDs getting jobs at undergrad teaching-oriented institutions. But if you want to teach, be aware that many/most biostatistics programs do not give you the opportunity to teach undergrads, if you get to teach at all. 

That is good to know. Did these Biostat PhDs go directly from PhD to the teaching oriented institution, or did they do a VAP first? Because when I was on the market, I looked at a few job postings for PUI's/non-doctoral granting universities (didn't end up applying to any), and they asked for teaching evaluations to be submitted with the application. Maybe some PUI's like the idea of hiring Biostat PhDs because the interdisciplinary research they're involved with can also involve undergraduate students...

[bayessays]

I've seen both, but from a quick check, it seems like doing a VAP first is more common.

[Stat Assistant Professor]

Good to know. The academic job market will be incredibly tight for the next few years because of covid, so I am wondering if it will get to a point that VAP's are basically required to get a TT job at teaching institutions.

OP: if you think you might be interested in biostatistics, then you should apply to biostat PhD programs as well. You will likely be able to get into some good biostat PhD programs. Although you expressed interested in teaching, you may find that you love research too and may want to focus on jobs at research universities later on. And if you still have a strong interest in teaching but the program doesn't provide teaching opportunities, you can try to get some experience mentoring and/or collaborating with undergrads (I think that also counts as a positive for job applications to teaching schools) or you can consider doing a VAP (which are usually a combination of teaching and research) after your PhD rather than a purely research-focused postdoc. 

Edited August 26, 2020 by Stat Assistant Professor

[soaact]

17 hours ago, Stat Assistant Professor said:

Good to know. The academic job market will be incredibly tight for the next few years because of covid, so I am wondering if it will get to a point that VAP's are basically required to get a TT job at teaching institutions.

OP: if you think you might be interested in biostatistics, then you should apply to biostat PhD programs as well. You will likely be able to get into some good biostat PhD programs. Although you expressed interested in teaching, you may find that you love research too and may want to focus on jobs at research universities later on. And if you still have a strong interest in teaching but the program doesn't provide teaching opportunities, you can try to get some experience mentoring and/or collaborating with undergrads (I think that also counts as a positive for job applications to teaching schools) or you can consider doing a VAP (which are usually a combination of teaching and research) after your PhD rather than a purely research-focused postdoc. 

Thanks so much for the insight. I'll definitely consider applying to Biostats as well! 

So I looked back at the classes I took more in depth because it's been a while, and it looks like the 'Intro to Analysis' course I referred to earlier was closer to advanced calculus (I called it Intro to Real Analysis because I remembered it as a prep course, but it's a misnomer). It did cover how to do proofs and all the topics you mentioned (sequences and series, continuity and convergence of functions, Riemann integral), but I think it was less rigorous than what you would typically see in Analysis. Assuming the worst and that this isn't counted as Analysis, do I still have a good shot at getting into top 15-30 and even a remote shot at top 15 (for Stats)? Many places do say that students who are mathematically less prepared will have an option to take Analysis in their first year, but I was wondering if it's extremely rare that they would admit someone who has never taken it. I did take a number of other proof-based math and stats courses, but Real Analysis seems like a crucial requirement. In addition to the list above, I was thinking about places like UW and Chicago as my reach schools but not sure how realistic this is.

Edited August 27, 2020 by soaact

[bayessays]

If your course covers those topics, you're fine.  They're not going to "not count" the course.

[soaact]

Sorry, I have one more! In general, how much do the school admissions care about GRE verbal? Does earning the 90th percentile (which is roughly in the low 160s) make you any more competitive than say, the 70th or 80th? Do the top universities care more?

Edited August 30, 2020 by soaact