Chances...

[ellis01]

I'm going to be a senior. My grades are definitley not outstanding, so I'm just going to apply to the following three programs: U Chicago's Master's of Arts, CMU's Master's program, and MIT's phd program. If I don't get into one of those, I'll probably just move on from philosophy. (Those are really the only three programs I have an interest in entering.)

I go to a top 5 school for philosophy.

Philosophy Grades: Wittgenstein (A); Topics in Analytic philosophy (A); Symbolic Logic (A-) ; Minds and Machines (A); Philosophy of Action (A-); Philosophy of Mind (A-) ; Philosophy of Language (A-) ; Philosophy of Science (A-); Paradox (A-)

Other notable Grades: Analytic Geometry and Calculus (B ); Independent Study on philosophy in literature (A); Game Theory (A-); Statistics (B+); Intro to Linguistics (A); Modern Syntax (B )

With all of that said, I have C's in some gen. ed. classes. Also, I managed to get a C in Modern Philosophy, which is a low level class. My overall GPA is only a 3.2.

Next year I'm looking at taking Theory of Knowledge and hopefully an independent study through the philosophy department.

I'll have a letter of recomendation from who Leiter says is considered the person who sets the agenda for research in philosophy. And I've had a number of original papers in philosophy that I got A's on-- So I feel I'll have a good writing sample. My primary interests are Wittgenstein, epistemology, and philosophy of action.

So, I'm wondering if I have any realistic chance of getting into either three of those three programs. And, I'm wondering if there is anything I should focus on doing my senior year to improve my chances.

Edited May 13, 2010 by ellis01

[tarski]

Various things... take it all with a grain of salt.

(1) Chicago's MA isn't funded, and I'm guessing the CMU one isn't either. Are you prepared to deal with that?

(2) Admissions to even mid-low ranked schools are difficult and unpredictable. The one real application you're looking at is MIT, which is high ranked and extremely competitive. If you really want to take a shot at this, you need to apply to more schools. I applied to 18 programs last season and got 4 acceptances, 3 waitlists... applying to only one PhD program is a mistake, in my opinion. Why do you only have an interest in the three programs you've named? Your interests are pretty broad, from what you've posted. Have you talked to your professors about your school selections?

(3) Your writing sample needs to be much more polished than an A paper. Show that A paper to the prof that graded it, say you want advice on turning it into a writing sample, edit edit edit. And then edit some more. You might already know this, just making sure.

(4) It's great that you have that letter writer, but make sure you have good relationships with two other people (and that one!).

(5) As for your grades- sometimes an upward trend is good. Maybe the Cs were all when you were a freshman, but every since you've been taking pilosophy courses and getting good grades in those ones? Although I'm not sure if 3.2 is bad enough for a statement-mention... your GPA isn't the strongest part of your application, but it's not as bad as you think it is.

[ellis01]

Various things... take it all with a grain of salt.

(1) Chicago's MA isn't funded, and I'm guessing the CMU one isn't either. Are you prepared to deal with that?

(2) Admissions to even mid-low ranked schools are difficult and unpredictable. The one real application you're looking at is MIT, which is high ranked and extremely competitive. If you really want to take a shot at this, you need to apply to more schools. I applied to 18 programs last season and got 4 acceptances, 3 waitlists... applying to only one PhD program is a mistake, in my opinion. Why do you only have an interest in the three programs you've named? Your interests are pretty broad, from what you've posted. Have you talked to your professors about your school selections?

(3) Your writing sample needs to be much more polished than an A paper. Show that A paper to the prof that graded it, say you want advice on turning it into a writing sample, edit edit edit. And then edit some more. You might already know this, just making sure.

(4) It's great that you have that letter writer, but make sure you have good relationships with two other people (and that one!).

(5) As for your grades- sometimes an upward trend is good. Maybe the Cs were all when you were a freshman, but every since you've been taking pilosophy courses and getting good grades in those ones? Although I'm not sure if 3.2 is bad enough for a statement-mention... your GPA isn't the strongest part of your application, but it's not as bad as you think it is.

Thanks for the response. The reason that I want to go Chicago is because they tailor well to Wittgensteiniens-- especially to LW's later philosophy. I have a very strong background and interest in Wittgenstein, so I think their program fits me the best. I'd apply to the phd program, but I figure that I'd be better off just going to the master's program for a year and then figure out what program I want to go to from there. (The money really isn't a problem to me... at least at this time.)

My interest in CMU is that I have a lot of friends down there, and if I go to their master's program, like with Chicago, I could go through that, which would be a great experience, and then figure out what I want to do with myself.

MIT interests me because I really like Stalnaker and that their department works closely with their linguistics program-- and I like their department, as a whole, for epistemology.

-- Something that I didn't ask explicitly, but am looking for an answer for, is this: I got a C in Intro to Modern philosophy. Should I retake it, as it must look bad on an application-- especially considering that it is such a low-level class. Will having that C hurt my chances of getting into programs?

Edited May 13, 2010 by ellis01

[tarski]

If you're also interested in the PhD program at Chichago, I'd advise to just apply for that. This year, lots of rejects from the PhD program were offered MA admission.

And there's nothing wrong with applying to MIT (you have good reason to), my criticism was more about only MIT (PhD). I focused my program research on phil of cog sci, so I can't tell you much specifically, but I'm sure there are more schools (PhD programs) for you out there other than MIT and Chicago. Lots of the schools that offered minors in cog sci also offered minors in linguistics, I think (Indiana Bloomington, Ohio State, UMD, others. UMD had lots of great people in linguistics and philosophy, now that I think of it).

As for that C- well, it is in your major, and if retaking it takes the C off the transcript, that would be nice. But considering that lots of programs have early/mid-December deadlines (MIT was January, Chichago mid December I think), even if you retake it in the fall your old grade would be on the transcipt you submit with your application. Unless you can take that course in summer? Alternatively, you can try to excuse it as a long ago grade and there has been an upward trend, and so on...

Edited May 13, 2010 by tarski

[firstene]

Hi-- I applied this application season to 15 schools, ranked from one to 30 something on the Leiter report, and was grateful to be accepted to a few of them. One thing that I think helped was that the professor who gave me my lowest grade addressed this in his letter of recommendation. He explained that the grade was in a graduate level course, I worked very hard, did well on final, etc etc.

I did not have the option to re-take the class, as my school only allows grades to be replaced if the grade is below a c-. (A terrible rule, in my opinion! What about the people who want to replace a B+! or a C!) Okay, my point is that I think it could be helpful to retake that class if you can, and if not, to see if at least one of your letter-writers might comment on that. It was one thing to give my own explanations in my statement of purpose, but I think it helps to have a respected philosopher agree with you.

One more note of advice: a student I graduated with also applied to many schools, had a fairly similar GPA to mine, and above average , although not stellar, GRE scores. I believe that his writing sample was strong as well. In any case, the student was rejected everywhere that s/he applied, and after a lot of research into the reasons, it became clear that the letters of recommendation were not very strong. For one of the letters, the student asked the super star professor in the department, although he had never even taken a class with him. It was probably clear to that professor that the student just wanted to use the big name of the professor, and the professor wrote a letter that basically said "I am not familiar enough with the work of this student to make an accurate judgment." This is then very questionable in the eyes of admissions departments, because it makes the student appear shallow, and it also raises the question of why the student didn't get to know any other professors well enough to ask for a letter.

So, if you are searching for your other two letter writers, look for people that know you well and know your work well. If you happen to know one of the superstars from your department well enough to ask for a letter, that is a double bonus.

and I second the above advice to apply widely. It is insanely competitive-- more so than I thought it would be. I had a 3.9 phil GPA, 3.8 overall, over a 1450 combined GRE with a solid 6.0 on the writing section,and my writing sample paper earned me high honors. Yet none of the top thirteen schools even put me on a waiting list. I did not really expect it, and I am not trying to say that my stats are particularly impressive, I just want to say that when I applied, I was under the impression that I was in pretty good shape. Other students that I know who had more impressive stats, such as a published paper as a writing sample, still had trouble getting into top ten schools. Luckily you still have time to research schools and see where to apply In a way, I enjoyed the whole process, so I wish you luck along the way.