Accepted into PhD program in Curriculum and Instruction - Does staying in the classroom hurt my chances of landing a tenure track position?

[PHDandTEACH]

X-Post from Decisions, Decisions Board - Got little response there.

Hi Grad Cafe, 

I applied to a local Curriculum and Instruction PhD program a few months ago. I just found out that I've been accepted! However, when I applied, I had done some research on continuing to teach while turning down funding (tuition waiver and stipend) because financially it would make more sense to remain in the classroom. I have a wife and two kids, so I'd want to maintain our quality of life as much as possible. The numbers make more sense to take out loans in the long run as getting a PhD automatically gives me an $8000/year raise, which would pay off the loans in about a decade after completion. I'm tenured, so there's little worry about ever losing my job. 

What I'm concerned about though is that I've read posts about how students without funding have pretty much zero shot at landing a tenure track position. 

I know of two local tenure track professors at small schools who worked and earned their PhD at the same time. So I know it's possible, but I'm curious about others' perspective. Especially from those in the field of education where teaching in a classroom is basically the "lab" for the field. 

Thanks!

[ZeChocMoose]

This is going to be an unsatisfying answer of it depends.

On 3/2/2021 at 8:03 AM, PHDandTEACH said:

The numbers make more sense to take out loans in the long run as getting a PhD automatically gives me an $8000/year raise, which would pay off the loans in about a decade after completion. I'm tenured, so there's little worry about ever losing my job. 

This is confusing - I am assuming that you are going to leave your tenured job at a K-12 school to pursue a TT job in higher education.  If that is the case then why would the automatic salary increase for getting a PhD matter since you would no longer be employed at your school?

On 3/2/2021 at 8:03 AM, PHDandTEACH said:

What I'm concerned about though is that I've read posts about how students without funding have pretty much zero shot at landing a tenure track position. 

The problem would be if you don't get involved in research beyond your dissertation than you wouldn't be competitive enough for a TT job.  We just had a TT opening in my department and we removed anyone that didn't have sufficient research productivity. 

I definitely think it is possible to get involved in research while you stay full-time in the classroom - but a lot of that depends on your program and how flexible your work/life responsibilities are.  I don't see this path leading to better quality of life at least in terms of your time in your program as you will be juggling a lot.  Also if most PhD students in your program are full-time students with research assistantships - I think it is going to be really difficult for a faculty member to take you on as a RA because you are not going to be able to dedicate enough time to their projects especially if they are expecting a 20-hrs-per-week RA. 

I have seen this work better in places where there is a mix of full- and part-time PhD students and the faculty are use to incorporating part-time PhD students into their research projects.  It is a lot though - working full-time, taking classes, life/family responsibilities, and then adding RA duties? 

I also would think about why you want a TT job.  Mostly likely you are going to have to be willing to move anywhere and you may have to do a postdoc for a couple of years.  I know that is becoming increasing common in my subfield - higher ed.  I am not sure about C&I.  Since you mention finances being important to you, I would investigate the typical salary ranges for an assistant professor in C&I because my guess is they are a lot less than what you would make in your tenured job in your K-12 school system.

On 3/2/2021 at 8:03 AM, PHDandTEACH said:

I know of two local tenure track professors at small schools who worked and earned their PhD at the same time. So I know it's possible, but I'm curious about others' perspective. Especially from those in the field of education where teaching in a classroom is basically the "lab" for the field. 

  That is really unusual.  Are they employed at CCs?  In my current university, you need a PhD before you can get hired into a TT role.  At some places, you might be hired into the role if you are finishing up your PhD but usually you have 6-9 months to finish or you are terminated.

Edited March 7, 2021 by ZeChocMoose

[MegPhD]

Hi!

I'm a former teacher and school administrator who is beginning a PhD program this fall. It's full-time and fully funded, so I'm explicitly not allowed to take on any paid work. My PhD will be in the Applied Psychology of Learning & Motivation through the Department of Education, so it's a little different in scope than yours. As a result, my research on schools (located in the Midwest) focused mostly on Educational Psychology (as opposed to the practitioner side of education doctoral programs). I came across many Doctor of Education programs that allowed part-time (or even full-time enrollment) in addition to working a full-time job, but I didn't see any PhD programs with this model. The key difference between the EdD and PhD is the research - PhDs are expected to devote themselves 24/7 to research, while EdDs should apply their learning to their immediate practices. If it's a typical PhD program, I'd imagine it will be difficult to publish enough during your time as a graduate student to be in consideration for tenure-track positions (unless you have an amazing mentor who can work with your schedule to loop you into current projects and have you included as a named author on articles). This, of course, becomes even more difficult given that you'll be competing with fellow students, who probably don't have any constraints on their time and availability. However, I 100% empathize about wanting to keep earning at the same levels while in graduate school; I'm taking a 70% paycut to get my PhD, and it definitely hurts.