transition from MFA to PHD?

[jawnkeats]

hey y'all,

so for a long time now, i've been waffling back and forth about whether i want to get an MFA in fiction or go for the gold with a PHD in english. i studied writing and english in college, and completed theses in both departments (which was a great experience but did not help me make a decision). obviously, there are pros and cons to both--even if i set aside the question of which i love more, there isn't a clear practical answer. the MFA's not a terminal degree and it could be expensive if i don't get funding; the PHD is such a lengthy commitment that maybe i'd be forced to "give up writing."

my question is this: is it possible to get an MFA at a school and then transition into that same school's PHD program? are any of the lit classes you take to get an MFA transferable to another school's PHD program? do you know of anyone who's done this, or of schools that are more receptive of it?

thanks in advance.

[Alette]

First, an MFA program does lead to a terminal degree - that's an important distinction you should fully consider. Second, because it is a terminal degree, credits will not transfer. One can transfer credits from a MA program because one earns an MA while in a PhD program - therefore, someone applying for a PhD program with a MA has in a sense (though the university may not honor it) already achieved the level of study demanded of first year PhD candidates. A Master's in English is a step on the path to a PhD in English; an MFA in Creative Writing is a separate path.

I would recommend against attending an MFA program without funding. Going into debt for it just does not make sense. Plus, a TA position is invaluable when you enter the job market, and will help you when you apply to PhD programs.

I would also caution against planning on attending the same school for both the MFA and the PhD. First, the MFA takes about 3 years - do you think you'll want to stay on that campus for another 5-7 (if you are accepted to the PhD program, that is)? Second, how likely is it that the school that has the strongest, most interesting creative writing department will also be the one that has the strongest, most interesting PhD program? Not very.

I might consider researching the nuances of these two programs a little more - and looking into how the schools you're interested in fit with your goal of earning both degrees. Also: there is a new PhD in Creative Writing degree that might help (or complicate!) your decision.

[jawnkeats]

First, an MFA program does lead to a terminal degree - that's an important distinction you should fully consider. Second, because it is a terminal degree, credits will not transfer. One can transfer credits from a MA program because one earns an MA while in a PhD program - therefore, someone applying for a PhD program with a MA has in a sense (though the university may not honor it) already achieved the level of study demanded of first year PhD candidates. A Master's in English is a step on the path to a PhD in English; an MFA in Creative Writing is a separate path.

I would recommend against attending an MFA program without funding. Going into debt for it just does not make sense. Plus, a TA position is invaluable when you enter the job market, and will help you when you apply to PhD programs.

I would also caution against planning on attending the same school for both the MFA and the PhD. First, the MFA takes about 3 years - do you think you'll want to stay on that campus for another 5-7 (if you are accepted to the PhD program, that is)? Second, how likely is it that the school that has the strongest, most interesting creative writing department will also be the one that has the strongest, most interesting PhD program? Not very.

I might consider researching the nuances of these two programs a little more - and looking into how the schools you're interested in fit with your goal of earning both degrees. Also: there is a new PhD in Creative Writing degree that might help (or complicate!) your decision.

thanks, alette!

[Alette]

thanks, alette!

No problem! If you're up for it, I think getting an MFA and a PhD is an amazing idea. Good luck!

[btheblueox]

Some other ideas, in case it turns out that you do want to do both but are not keen on getting two separate degrees from two separate places with two separate application processes: I hear tell that Cornell has an MFA/PhD that may interest you? Alternatively, as Alette suggested, there are creative writing PhD programs (I have a friend in one; she's very much enjoying it, and from what I hear, her work does seem to entail a nice blend of critical and creative work), which may provide the kind of hybrid you're looking for.

[Strong Flat White]

hey y'all,

so for a long time now, i've been waffling back and forth about whether i want to get an MFA in fiction or go for the gold with a PHD in english. i studied writing and english in college, and completed theses in both departments (which was a great experience but did not help me make a decision). obviously, there are pros and cons to both--even if i set aside the question of which i love more, there isn't a clear practical answer. the MFA's not a terminal degree and it could be expensive if i don't get funding; the PHD is such a lengthy commitment that maybe i'd be forced to "give up writing."

my question is this: is it possible to get an MFA at a school and then transition into that same school's PHD program? are any of the lit classes you take to get an MFA transferable to another school's PHD program? do you know of anyone who's done this, or of schools that are more receptive of it?

thanks in advance.

I don't know if this is what you're looking for, but it seems intuitive to me... a PhD in creative writing, within that school's English Dept. Kind of a rare thing, I guess, but I found a joint lit/creative writing PhD on USC website, and DU (Denver) is boasting the "oldest creative writing PhD in the country."

[Alette]

Some other ideas, in case it turns out that you do want to do both but are not keen on getting two separate degrees from two separate places with two separate application processes: I hear tell that Cornell has an MFA/PhD that may interest you?

Yes, Cornell has such a program - and they let in one or two people a year! That's nuts even by our already generous standards!

I guess I would just do some research (maybe there's no one at Cornell you're very excited about working with anyway). Often, programs will allow PhD candidates to take one creative writing course for credit, which isn't a lot but does give the flavor of the thing.

There are also Master's programs that offer a creative writing concentration, where you are expected to take workshop and complete a thesis. That might be a happy medium.

EDIT: Just now, in my own research, I see that the University of Wisconsin has a PhD Minor, where you have a "minor" in creative writing while earning a PhD in literature. That's something to look into. You will also, however, want to examine the job placements of people who choose non-normative options like this, and what classes they can teach, to see if the program is worthwhile in the long run for your particular goals.

Edited July 24, 2010 by Alette