My GRE scores weren't so hot... will I be okay?

[alittlegrey]

I'm an undergrad student at a top tier university who'll be applying to English grad schools this fall. I just officially received my GRE scores today (and immediately started plowing through forums in an attempt to comfort myself). Do you think my application will be strong enough to get into any of the universities I'm aiming for? I'm planning on applying to a large range, but...

GRE general:

Verbal - 710 (98th percentile)

Quant - 760 (84th percentile)

AW - 5 (84th percentile)

My overall GPA is a bit weak since my second major (completely unrelated to my primary) wasn't kind to me: 3.53

English major GPA: over 3.8

I'm working on an Honors project which involve two large thesis papers, so I think (hopefully) my writing sample will be strong and can counteract the AW score. I also have an ongoing collaborative publication project with a professor at our school.

I'll be taking the Literature subject exam in October, but I'm not expecting the score to be great. I took a practice test without prior studying and earned a 530. However, I only have one month where I can really buckle down and start memorizing.

My language skills are thus: fluent in Chinese (because I have a minor in it) - however, that doesn't really fulfill requirements since it's not one of the classic or romantic languages. I have 4 years of French and a year of Latin from high school, but I don't think that counts here...

I'm applying to: UPenn, Cornell, Chicago, Brown, UTAustin, NYU, Northwestern, Washington University in St. Louis (WUSTL), Carnegie Mellon, Brandeis, Boston U, Notre Dame, URochester, A&M, and maybe other backups

Am I dreaming? Or is there a chance for me to get into NYU, etc.?

[alittlegrey]

i think you are overthinking the GREs... there's not that much difference between a 710 and an 800 - you're already at the 98th percentile and your quant score may only be 84th percentile, but that's definitely a lot higher than an average english applicant (all the math peeps getting 800s lowers the percentiles). your AW score is just fine and your writing sample matters infinitely more than the score on that section anyway. also, your GPA overall is enough to pass any graduate school minimum and they care more about your english gpa. so in essence none of these things should keep you out as you should get past any initial screenings based on numbers. the rest is all about a good fit, and a killer SOP/WS.

as for the chinese, it shows the committee that you have the potential and ability to learn languages - even if you don't end up using it in your research somehow.

Thanks. I've been really stressing about this, especially when I saw the (higher) scores/grades of some of the other forum members.

[diehtc0ke]

On 8/8/2010 at 5:12 PM, alittlegrey said:

I'm an undergrad student at a top tier university who'll be applying to English grad schools this fall. I just officially received my GRE scores today (and immediately started plowing through forums in an attempt to comfort myself). Do you think my application will be strong enough to get into any of the universities I'm aiming for? I'm planning on applying to a large range, but...

GRE general:

Verbal - 710 (98th percentile)

Quant - 760 (84th percentile)

AW - 5 (84th percentile)

My overall GPA is a bit weak since my second major (completely unrelated to my primary) wasn't kind to me: 3.53

English major GPA: over 3.8

I'm working on an Honors project which involve two large thesis papers, so I think (hopefully) my writing sample will be strong and can counteract the AW score. I also have an ongoing collaborative publication project with a professor at our school.

I'll be taking the Literature subject exam in October, but I'm not expecting the score to be great. I took a practice test without prior studying and earned a 530. However, I only have one month where I can really buckle down and start memorizing.

My language skills are thus: fluent in Chinese (because I have a minor in it) - however, that doesn't really fulfill requirements since it's not one of the classic or romantic languages. I have 4 years of French and a year of Latin from high school, but I don't think that counts here...

I'm applying to: UPenn, Cornell, Chicago, Brown, UTAustin, NYU, Northwestern, Washington University in St. Louis (WUSTL), Carnegie Mellon, Brandeis, Boston U, Notre Dame, URochester, A&M, and maybe other backups

Am I dreaming? Or is there a chance for me to get into NYU, etc.?

I'm assuming you're talking about your projected chances with the GRE Lit as your general GRE scores are beyond even the maximum of thresholds to be considered. To be honest, I think that the Lit GRE is probably the least important part of the entire application. At least the general GRE is used at some schools to mark eligibility for specific fellowships. Some of the schools that you're applying to don't even require it. I would go through the motions of studying for it, however, in hopes of receiving a better score. A 600+ can only help you, even if only marginally.

As for the rest of your application, everything seems fairly strong (I wouldn't worry so much about that overall GPA if you are worried) but this process can be so arbitrary at times that I'm not going to waste your time by telling you you're a shoe-in or even that you have a great shot at getting into x amount of schools. I can comfort you by saying that your GRE scores are higher than mine and I received a sub-600 score on the Lit GREs and I was accepted to more than one school that's on your list. The writing sample and statement of purpose are what get you in, not the Lit GRE.

[poco_puffs]

The way I looked at it during applications last year was this:

There is almost always going to be someone else with higher GRE scores, a better GPA, an exclusive class or two that was unavailable at your school, study abroad sessions, amazing writing samples, connections at various colleges... resist the temptation to compare yourself to these people. They're always going to be there, and plenty of them will face rejection, just as plenty of people who lacked those credentials or experiences will get into great schools. There will always be someone with higher stats, and you with your scores will have higher stats than a lot of other people, causing them their own undue stress.

There is so much more to your application than just those numbers, and if a person had to choose between the scored portions of an application and the individual written components (writing sample, letters of recommendation, statement of purpose) I'd put my money on the written components every time. Numbers need to be high enough to get you through that first slush-pile round (and yours seem to be more than adequate), but it's the other stuff that sets you apart from the crowd. Of all the things to worry about in this whole process, I'd rank your scores and grades as pretty low priority, especially if there is nothing more you can do about them at this point. Save the stress for constructive purposes, like keeping yourself on schedule and refining your SOP and writing sample.

Side note: We imagine that applications are a numbers game in these forums, because numbers seem like they prove something and can be easily compared between applicants. We embrace this because the idea that adcomms are judging intangible and purely qualitative parts of our applications seems terrifying and so far into the future, whereas the scores arrive conveniently in our hands before the applications are even sent out. Keep looking forward to the next step in the process, keep your eyes on your own paper, and remember that this application is about doing your absolute best and letting the adcomms see your potential as an even better scholar than you are right now.

Thanks. I've been really stressing about this, especially when I saw the (higher) scores/grades of some of the other forum members.

Edited August 8, 2010 by poco_puffs

[strokeofmidnight]

Wow, you are WAY, WAY overthinking this.

First off, if GRE scores actually really mattered to the admissions process, and you're aiming for the tippiest-toppiest schools, you should be absolutely content with a 710. Don't even THINK about re-taking it, because (unlike, say, the SAT), getting a 720 or 800 won't impress anyone on the ad-comm. It will make you $160 poorer.

That said, as I tried to explain in the other thread, the GRE scores really don't count for very much. For the "strictest" schools (which are not necessarily the top schools...at least 2 of the top 5 don't give a damn how well you did on the GRE, and admitted students who scored hundred of points than you did) there are FLEXIBLE min. thresholds. If you score above, you go on to the next round. If you score below, the rest of your app is skimmed through, if it looks promising, you STILL move on to the next round. Many programs will barely look at the GRE at all, or put up fairly low "passing standards." Seriously, this doesn't work the same way as the SAT...it counts for FAR, FAR less in the application process.

For what it's worth, I applied to 6 schools that you listed (and was accepted to all but one of them). My GRE score was lower. That said, it's the writing sample and SoP that will count. I know of applicants who graduated summa cum laude from the Ivy's, landed perfect or near-perfect GRE scores...who was rejected from every program that they applied for. No one can guarantee you admissions into all or any of the programs that you listed based on your score because it counts for so very little in the admissions process. (We might be able to give you an educated guess if we saw your work, but even then...it's very dicey and hard to predict).

[foppery]

First, I'd like to echo all those people who are reassuring you about your scores. Though the difference between the 98th and 99th percentiles is negligible, the difference between 710 and 800 *looks* huge, so I can see where your worries are coming from. But if I remember correctly, applications ask you to list your percentiles along with your scores. No need to panic!

Second, four years of French and a year of Latin from high school? That's GREAT. No one cares where you picked up your languages, so long as you're proficient in them. And it's not like departments call and ask you to sight-read Lucretius to prove your Latin skills. Obviously you shouldn't lie about your languages, but three languages at any level? Not bad at all. (When I applied, I had 1.5 years of college Latin and 9 years of, believe it or not, Japanese. I think my lack of German or another Romance language harmed my chances at some schools. WHATEVER, Yale, I'm not bitter.)<br style="text-shadow: none;">

[Branwen daughter of Llyr]

you're GRE scores are quite hot (I wish I managed above a 700 in quant, I could have broken the 1400 barrier).

And you have more language training than I do. To brush up on Latin, get the Reading Latin books by Jones and Sidwell (I have NO background in Latin, and am using them to teach myself in preparation for Grad School) and review. My fluent language also doesn't have anything to do with my future studies (not much call for Hebrew in English lit - although I've found some marginal uses for it for future scholarship), but just having a second language shows that you have the ability to learn and absorb reading knowledge in additional languages!

As long as your SOP and writing sample are kick-ass and you have a good fit with the programs you're applying to, you should be in the running! (obviously, there are no guarantees on anything Grad school related...)

Good luck!

[alittlegrey]

First, I'd like to echo all those people who are reassuring you about your scores. Though the difference between the 98th and 99th percentiles is negligible, the difference between 710 and 800 *looks* huge, so I can see where your worries are coming from. But if I remember correctly, applications ask you to list your percentiles along with your scores. No need to panic!

Second, four years of French and a year of Latin from high school? That's GREAT. No one cares where you picked up your languages, so long as you're proficient in them. And it's not like departments call and ask you to sight-read Lucretius to prove your Latin skills. Obviously you shouldn't lie about your languages, but three languages at any level? Not bad at all. (When I applied, I had 1.5 years of college Latin and 9 years of, believe it or not, Japanese. I think my lack of German or another Romance language harmed my chances at some schools. WHATEVER, Yale, I'm not bitter.)<br style="text-shadow: none;">

So should I just mention it in my personal statement? I don't think I remember any Latin, but my French reading ability is passable.

Secondly, for the language requirement that you have to fulfill while in grad school - could I pass the official examination even if I took only, say, 2 years of college level French (French I and French II) as a refresher? Or would that not be advanced enough?

[Alette]

Secondly, for the language requirement that you have to fulfill while in grad school - could I pass the official examination even if I took only, say, 2 years of college level French (French I and French II) as a refresher? Or would that not be advanced enough?

I think that would depend on where you attend. Some schools have more lenient practices than others. I've even seen it advised that students should take the department's exam rather than one offered through the university, as their standards of proficiency are less than the university's and thus their test is easier to pass. Some schools require graduate level work in a language, others simply ask you to pass a translation with a dictionary. (And some have no requirement!) No matter what the situation, I would suggest reviewing any/all of your languages prior to the test, just to be on the safe side. And I would suggest testing yourself (maybe ask if you can look at examples of previous exams) just to make sure that yes, you do remember past language classes!

[strokeofmidnight]

So should I just mention it in my personal statement? I don't think I remember any Latin, but my French reading ability is passable.

Secondly, for the language requirement that you have to fulfill while in grad school - could I pass the official examination even if I took only, say, 2 years of college level French (French I and French II) as a refresher? Or would that not be advanced enough?

I'd wait until you're admitted to figure out how to fulfill language requirements. While it is to your advantage to start early, you'll have approximately 6 months between when you receive acceptance letters and when your program begins--plenty of time to take a refresher course or begin studying on your own. (I did the latter, and passed one of my two language exams my first semester or grad school). As Alette noted, the rigor of the exams will vary DRASTICALLY from program to program (and at some program, depending on the language, or the particular grader). Some programs might allow you to fulfill the language requirement in alternative ways--but again, you won't know this until you're accepted. (In many cases, the requirements posted on websites are scarce and not always updated).

Mentioning languages on your SoP: it depends. I left it off of mine completely (since just about every program that I applied to asked for this info in the application itself...and it's also on my CV...and shows up on my transcripts). But I'm also not in a field where languages are particularly essential. If you're--say, studying Chicano literature--it would make sense to mention your spanish proficency in the CV. If you're a medievalist, I think it's almost imperative to at least assure the ad-comm that you're sufficiently proficient to work with Latin, Anglo-Saxon, etc.