MPhil vs. M.A. in Medieval Studies

[MartinRanger]

So I got introduced to thegradcafe by a friend who just arrived at orientation for her master's program, and figured I'd throw out a question and hope for the best.

I'm a rising senior at a small liberal arts school in the Midwest, majoring in history with a concentration (because we don't do minors for some reason) in Medieval and Renaissance Studies. I've studied Latin and French, and am on my way to being somewhat proficient with each. As the end of my undergraduate career is bearing down at a rather alarming pace, and I'm sure that I want to at least attain a master's or equivalent post-graduate degree, if not go on to a Ph.D. eventually, I'm finding myself feeling rather adrift at the moment. I spent a term in Oxford at a research and writing intensive program this fall, and fell in love with England. At this point, I'm looking at a number of possibilities both in and outside of the states. Typically, I decided to become enamored with a somewhat obscure time period (Late Antiquity in western Europe), or the Dark Ages, as some insist on calling them.

Anyway, getting to my actual question, as I've looked at schools in England, my lack of familiarity with that country's higher education has left me a bit confused. A lot of the schools I'm looking at offer both research-based degrees (which tend to be called MPhils) and taught-based degrees (which tend to be called M.A.s). Requirements obviously vary from school to school, but I'm not entirely sure what the difference is, besides the obvious (the MPhil is more based around a big research project. Or not. I'm not entirely sure).

Does anyone have a feel for how M.A.s and MPhils are seen by Ph.D. programs in the US? Since I'd heard from another friend that it's hard to get a job as a professor in the U.S. with a UK Ph.D., I'd been thinking I'd finish my education in the states (any comments on that are welcome as well). Would one leave me in a better or worse position for applying to a Ph.D. program? Is one easier or harder to do full-time than the other?

Any help anyone could offer, even sympathetic remarks, would be appreciated.

[wreckofthehope]

Anyway, getting to my actual question, as I've looked at schools in England, my lack of familiarity with that country's higher education has left me a bit confused. A lot of the schools I'm looking at offer both research-based degrees (which tend to be called MPhils) and taught-based degrees (which tend to be called M.A.s). Requirements obviously vary from school to school, but I'm not entirely sure what the difference is, besides the obvious (the MPhil is more based around a big research project. Or not. I'm not entirely sure).

Does anyone have a feel for how M.A.s and MPhils are seen by Ph.D. programs in the US? Since I'd heard from another friend that it's hard to get a job as a professor in the U.S. with a UK Ph.D., I'd been thinking I'd finish my education in the states (any comments on that are welcome as well). Would one leave me in a better or worse position for applying to a Ph.D. program? Is one easier or harder to do full-time than the other?

Any help anyone could offer, even sympathetic remarks, would be appreciated.

I can't answer as to how U.K. qualifications are viewed in the U.S., although I'm hoping that it is not unfavourably since I'm English and applying for U.S. graduate programs. I would think that, especially in a field such as Mediaeval studies where Britain has great strengths, a Master's level qualification from the U.K. would not be a liability and, depending on the university, could be an asset. The added bonus for you would be that it would probably take you less time to complete than an MA in the U.S. The general consensus seems to be that it is at the PhD level that the U.K. / U.S. distinction becomes more important - and that a PhD from a good U.S. school will put you in a better position to get work in the U.S., in part due to the pedagogical training you receive.

In the U.K. most MA level students study for an MA and not for the MPhil, it is a far less popular course in general - the MPhil is (usually) two years rather than one, and has a much longer thesis - the coursework requirements are usually the same for the two. There are a few exceptions: at Cambridge, all Master's level degrees (or at least most) are MPhils, this doesn't mean they're more research intensive or longer (although it may benefit you that people often assume they are), it is just that because Cambridge and Oxford have the whole Oxbridge MA thing where you get an MA automatically 7 years after you started your BA, they have to find different things to call their Master's level qualifications. For the sciences there is no problem, because all undergraduate degrees are BA's and thus become MA's after 7 years, so MSc is still available... for the Humanities, they've been forced to be creative, thus Cambridge has MPhil, and Oxford MSt as the equivalent to what would elsewhere be called an MA. (Oxford does still have the MPhil as a 2 year, research intensive degree). The other exception is the MPhil as a kind of failed PhD - often people get granted an MPhil when they haven't managed to produce scholarship of high enough quality to pass their PhD, or they are granted it on the way to fulfilling PhD requirements, in that sense it is more like the MA granted by a PhD programs in the U.S.

Personally, I don't really see the point of a (non-Cambridge) terminal MPhil - the MA takes less time but qualifies you for PhD entry in just the same way...

[RF237]

I am currently doing a PhD in medieval history in the US and took a similar route to the one you're thinking about. My suggestions: Do not do a PhD in the UK if you want to teach in the US (unless, of course, you do a PhD at Oxford of Cambridge), and if you are going to do a master's there, do a taught MA at Oxford, Cambridge, York, Durham, Leeds, St. Andrews, or Edinburgh. Maybe London. Think carefully about an MA in medieval studies versus an MA in medieval history/art/English, etc.--think about what department you would want to end up in for your PhD and what department you would want to teach in. Although American universities are always talking about interdisciplinarity, it is still far easier to get a job with a degree from a specific department since you will likely be applying to a specific department. Keep up with the French and Latin, and try to start German if you can. Don't expect to be able to study languages while in the UK. And try to take the GRE, if possible, before you start a program in the UK, because it's more of a hassle to take it over there. I'd also advise, however, applying directly to US PhD programs as well as to some US MA programs (UConn has a very good MA in medieval studies, and even offers funding to some MA students). The odds are very slim to none that you'll get any financial aid doing an MA (or PhD, for that matter) in the UK, which means you have to prepared to go $30,000-35,000 into debt for one year.

[amercanist]

So I got introduced to thegradcafe by a friend who just arrived at orientation for her master's program, and figured I'd throw out a question and hope for the best.

I'm a rising senior at a small liberal arts school in the Midwest, majoring in history with a concentration (because we don't do minors for some reason) in Medieval and Renaissance Studies. I've studied Latin and French, and am on my way to being somewhat proficient with each. As the end of my undergraduate career is bearing down at a rather alarming pace, and I'm sure that I want to at least attain a master's or equivalent post-graduate degree, if not go on to a Ph.D. eventually, I'm finding myself feeling rather adrift at the moment. I spent a term in Oxford at a research and writing intensive program this fall, and fell in love with England. At this point, I'm looking at a number of possibilities both in and outside of the states. Typically, I decided to become enamored with a somewhat obscure time period (Late Antiquity in western Europe), or the Dark Ages, as some insist on calling them.

Anyway, getting to my actual question, as I've looked at schools in England, my lack of familiarity with that country's higher education has left me a bit confused. A lot of the schools I'm looking at offer both research-based degrees (which tend to be called MPhils) and taught-based degrees (which tend to be called M.A.s). Requirements obviously vary from school to school, but I'm not entirely sure what the difference is, besides the obvious (the MPhil is more based around a big research project. Or not. I'm not entirely sure).

Does anyone have a feel for how M.A.s and MPhils are seen by Ph.D. programs in the US? Since I'd heard from another friend that it's hard to get a job as a professor in the U.S. with a UK Ph.D., I'd been thinking I'd finish my education in the states (any comments on that are welcome as well). Would one leave me in a better or worse position for applying to a Ph.D. program? Is one easier or harder to do full-time than the other?

Any help anyone could offer, even sympathetic remarks, would be appreciated.

Don't know if this will help but a friend of mine in my cohort has an MPhil from Oxford and seems to have done well in getting accepted a highly competitive program. I think any advanced degree which allows you primary research will serve you well -- especially as far as your writing sample goes and future growth as a research based scholar. In the end, I think it matters less on what type of degree you have as opposed to what you will offer (in terms of research) to the PhD program. But when I see my friend I'll ask about the differences and get back to you.