UK Entry Requirements

[snowballed]

Hi

I am a Canadian and am interested in doing a Masters program in the near future. It has always been my dream to study abroad, and am now thinking a UK (or possibly Australian) Masters program would offer me plenty of benefits.

I have a Bachelors of Business, and a Bachelors of Geography. My professional career (working in public sector'esque and sustainability has been lights out). The only problem? A weak average. Over the duration of my two degrees I have a 67% average. My last 2 and last 4 years I am sitting at a ~71% average (I have spent a total of 6+ in school). I am about 3-4 years removed from school and have been taking a class at a time to boost my average and get me back in the mood.

I plan on applying to a couple distance education Masters programs, but have also been turned on to some UK Msc programs. It is difficult converting Canadian grades into British entry requirements (1, 2i, 2ii, 3, etc), so I have no idea how to gauge whether or not I have a shot.

In many cases, I see that minimum requirements are an undergraduate degree. With my poor grades, should I even bother applying? I feel like my professional experience and fact that I have two degrees should count for something. Is it easier to get into a Brit/Aussie program than a Canadian one? From my initial research - it would seem so.

I have realistic expectations, I absolutely know I will not make it into LSE or anything crazy like that.

Thanks!

[wreckofthehope]

Hi,

I'm from the U.K., so hopefully can be of some help...

Usually, for entry to a Master's program, you would be expected to have achieved at least a 2i at the undergraduate level. I expect that your averages in the 60's are likely to equate to 2ii level here, unfortunately. An average in the British system of between 60 and 69 would get you a 2i here, with low 60's being the equivalent of a B+ and high 60's an A-... more or less.

The highest marks people get here are generally in the mid 70's. I've seen one person get an 80, once. So, basically I would say you need to minus 10-15 marks from your average to give you a general idea of what the equivalent average would be in the U.K. By those calculations you'd be quite low in the 2ii range.

However, all that said, programmes do fairly often take people who have relevant non-academic experience with lower grades, and (although I don't want to insult you, or anyone else) foreign students are quite regularly admitted with less than sparkling academic records, because they almost always have to pay enormous international fees. I wouldn't count yourself out of the running, you'd definitely have a shot - especially with relevant work experience ( and you may as well apply to the LSE if you like one of the courses there, what have you got to lose? ).

Hi

I am a Canadian and am interested in doing a Masters program in the near future. It has always been my dream to study abroad, and am now thinking a UK (or possibly Australian) Masters program would offer me plenty of benefits.

I have a Bachelors of Business, and a Bachelors of Geography. My professional career (working in public sector'esque and sustainability has been lights out). The only problem? A weak average. Over the duration of my two degrees I have a 67% average. My last 2 and last 4 years I am sitting at a ~71% average (I have spent a total of 6+ in school). I am about 3-4 years removed from school and have been taking a class at a time to boost my average and get me back in the mood.

I plan on applying to a couple distance education Masters programs, but have also been turned on to some UK Msc programs. It is difficult converting Canadian grades into British entry requirements (1, 2i, 2ii, 3, etc), so I have no idea how to gauge whether or not I have a shot.

In many cases, I see that minimum requirements are an undergraduate degree. With my poor grades, should I even bother applying? I feel like my professional experience and fact that I have two degrees should count for something. Is it easier to get into a Brit/Aussie program than a Canadian one? From my initial research - it would seem so.

I have realistic expectations, I absolutely know I will not make it into LSE or anything crazy like that.

Thanks!

[Jmews]

I've also studied in both the U.K. and U.S., and agree that it is not quite as simple as converting Canadian % into U.K. degree classification. I'd also agree with your rough conversion, but wouldn't place too much importance on it.

An example, I submitted an undergrad. paper in the U.K. and received 82%. The same paper in the U.S? 98%. This does make your suggestion of subtracting points from your average seem sensible, but I wouldn't rely on it too much.

I would advise contacting the institutions directly, not placing too much emphasis on grades, and stressing your other experiences. Admissions here are generally quite flexible.

Hi,

I'm from the U.K., so hopefully can be of some help...

Usually, for entry to a Master's program, you would be expected to have achieved at least a 2i at the undergraduate level. I expect that your averages in the 60's are likely to equate to 2ii level here, unfortunately. An average in the British system of between 60 and 69 would get you a 2i here, with low 60's being the equivalent of a B+ and high 60's an A-... more or less.

The highest marks people get here are generally in the mid 70's. I've seen one person get an 80, once. So, basically I would say you need to minus 10-15 marks from your average to give you a general idea of what the equivalent average would be in the U.K. By those calculations you'd be quite low in the 2ii range.

However, all that said, programmes do fairly often take people who have relevant non-academic experience with lower grades, and (although I don't want to insult you, or anyone else) foreign students are quite regularly admitted with less than sparkling academic records, because they almost always have to pay enormous international fees. I wouldn't count yourself out of the running, you'd definitely have a shot - especially with relevant work experience ( and you may as well apply to the LSE if you like one of the courses there, what have you got to lose? ).

[wreckofthehope]

You submitted one piece of work for different courses - how does that work?

Where did you study in the U.K. ? At my undergrad' institution anything above about a 76 was so rare as to be truly, truly, truly exceptional. (but maybe you're just one of those truly exceptional people )

TO the OP - Jmews' advice to contact individual departments is absolutely spot -on, they'll be honest about your chances and, with work experience, I expect you'll have a fair chance (don't emphasize your grades as being bad though the way you did in your original post).

I've also studied in both the U.K. and U.S., and agree that it is not quite as simple as converting Canadian % into U.K. degree classification. I'd also agree with your rough conversion, but wouldn't place too much importance on it.

An example, I submitted an undergrad. paper in the U.K. and received 82%. The same paper in the U.S? 98%. This does make your suggestion of subtracting points from your average seem sensible, but I wouldn't rely on it too much.

I would advise contacting the institutions directly, not placing too much emphasis on grades, and stressing your other experiences. Admissions here are generally quite flexible.

[snowballed]

Hi,

Thank you to everyone for the replies. It seems that the consensus on UK <> Canada grade conversion is that there is no consensus. Even universities seem to have different scales (with substantial differences).

For instance: University of Glasgow requires an 80% average throughout your entire undergraduate, for basic consideration. In Canada, I can count on perhaps one hand the number of people in my program that graduated with those marks. My school had a tendency to curve marks so that the mean clustered around 66%. Royal Holloway replied back and told me that I need a ~70% minimum, which seems fair enough to me - however I do not fit the bill.

In Canada for grad school, the onus is on your last two years of marks, and your application package. Although some programs are now becoming more popular that emphasize professional experience with 70% minimums for your last two years.

I've contacted a number of departments with a blunt honest assessment of my history: these are my marks, my marks in the last two years, and here are my professional accomplishments. I want to study: international development, globalization and policy, developmental economics, sustainable development, development management, and/or public admin/policy. So far:

University of Bath: "Qualified to apply"

University of Manchester: "Would welcome my application"

University of Glasgow: "80% minimum, but would need to see my CV"

Royal Holloway: "You need a 70%"

SOAS Distance Ed: "Would need to see an application, need a 'good' degree"

University of Pavia: "Qualified to apply"

University of Birmingham: "Qualified to apply"

It would lead me to believe, as others have mentioned, being an international student with a 'wad of cash' helps my chances. However I am trying to tease out of the departments if I have a 'snowballs chance in hell' at acceptance, aka; if it is worth my time to apply. That is harder information to get since they say "apply and you will see". It is another matter to repeatedly assemble unique references from my sources, as I am sure my (ex) employers love writing them multiple times haha.

Another thing that strikes me as bizaare: these UK schools have no application fee and will let you know very soon whether or not you are successful. In Canada, there is always an application fee and they wait until a deadline before they make the assessment. That leads me to believe that the faster you apply, the better off you are. Which, in my case (applying for 2011) could help too.

Any thoughts?

[wreckofthehope]

Another thing that strikes me as bizaare: these UK schools have no application fee and will let you know very soon whether or not you are successful. In Canada, there is always an application fee and they wait until a deadline before they make the assessment. That leads me to believe that the faster you apply, the better off you are. Which, in my case (applying for 2011) could help too.

Any thoughts?

The numbers applying for PhD's here are tiny compared to the States and Canada - even Cambridge has something like a 50% acceptance rate. For MA's, at the big powerhouses, there are a fair number of applicants but, even then, far fewer than in North America. Everywhere else, I suspect there are not that many applicants at all... and even if there were, to simplify massively, it wouldn't be much of a problem since the universities fund no-one... they're only making money from taking more students, not losing it.

I applied for one MA, I sent in my application materials on a Monday, and on Wednesday I received an acceptance, and this was in May of the year I wanted to start!

If they are saying they'll consider your application, I would think you have a very good chance of acceptance - since, as you say, there are no application fees, the only thing you would lose by applying is a little time... seems silly not to to me.

There is a deadline in mid-March for applicants who want to be considered for research council funding, but since you are not eligible that does not apply to you . Since most people apply around February to meet that deadline, you may gain some advantage by applying before Christmas, but I certainly wouldn't think it was really necessary.

[wreckofthehope]

Oh also -

It may be worth you checking out Master's degrees in Scandinavia, the Netherlands and Germany, and a few other European countries.

They all offer graduate degrees taught entirely in English and , especially in Scandinavia, there is NO tuition. There are some great universities offering these courses, especially Lund and Uppsala in Sweden, and the University of Amsterdam.

Something like this may be appealing: http://www.lu.se/o.o.i.s/7755

[Jmews]

You submitted one piece of work for different courses - how does that work?

Where did you study in the U.K. ? At my undergrad' institution anything above about a 76 was so rare as to be truly, truly, truly exceptional. (but maybe you're just one of those truly exceptional people )

TO the OP - Jmews' advice to contact individual departments is absolutely spot -on, they'll be honest about your chances and, with work experience, I expect you'll have a fair chance (don't emphasize your grades as being bad though the way you did in your original post).

It was an original piece of work for my U.K degree. I then studied abroad on a course which did not contribute to my degree classification, and so it happened that there was a degree of overlap and flexibility which allowed me to submit this piece again.

I don't want to say exactly where I received my undergrad. degree, but it was in a well regarded university with a great reputation in my field. It's certainly true that grades in this department usually reach 71-5% as a maximum.

To the original poster, good luck with the application, you have nothing to lose!

[wreckofthehope]

It was an original piece of work for my U.K degree. I then studied abroad on a course which did not contribute to my degree classification, and so it happened that there was a degree of overlap and flexibility which allowed me to submit this piece again.

I don't want to say exactly where I received my undergrad. degree, but it was in a well regarded university with a great reputation in my field. It's certainly true that grades in this department usually reach 71-5% as a maximum.

To the original poster, good luck with the application, you have nothing to lose!

Ah yes, just truly exceptional then.

[snowballed]

Oh also -

It may be worth you checking out Master's degrees in Scandinavia, the Netherlands and Germany, and a few other European countries.

They all offer graduate degrees taught entirely in English and , especially in Scandinavia, there is NO tuition. There are some great universities offering these courses, especially Lund and Uppsala in Sweden, and the University of Amsterdam.

Something like this may be appealing: http://www.lu.se/o.o.i.s/7755

Good evening,

Wow. Thank you for this information. Truly another world of potential opportunities has been opened up to me.

I am interested in studying in Sweden, Denmark, Germany, Ireland, and potentially Spain or Italy. However I do believe that my preference would be to study in the U.K., being that Canada is a commonwealth country. That is to say we have close ties with the U.K. and (more) similiar education and political systems, and I would imagine any U.K. (reputable) graduate degree would be instantly recognized in Canada.

I now have to narrow my choices, with some preference given to options without the necessity for academic references (4 years out of school).

I will keep the forum updated, and would also always appreciate feedback, suggestions and tips.

Despite being initially alarmed at a less than stellar average, responses here (and from admissions officers) have been positive. The fact that I have good professional experience, international student status, and am likely to apply early - should give me some measure of success.

S.